Thread: Thai Tone rules

Sorry, but it's just bollocks to say that Thais only "use" two tones. The fact that you don't hear it doesn't mean that it's not happening.

Language interpretation is individual and regional. As a newcomer to New York City i was asked by a person from Boston if I wanted to go to a "potty". No, I said I was potty trained when I was three. Tele personalities tend to have their own style. I like to listen to Tai Oratai when she talks, her Thai is so musical. Then there are young Thai Laos friends of mine in the US whose language is anything but musical, pretty flat. I think it's best to learn Central Thai, that's my goal anyway.

Originally Posted by mtone9317

I liked Robu's comment that acquiring vocabulary in any language is difficult if you can't read.

For some of us, it's more or less essential. Often when I speak Thai, I'm effectively reading from an internal script; I can see the words in my mind which I then read out loud. Different people have different styles but I'm lucky that I learn like this because it's an enormous help with getting my tones right. Although I screw them up, I at least know what I should be saying.

Is this based on your listening skills? Or has a native speaker told you this?

Originally Posted by Dan

Is this based on your listening skills? Or has a native speaker told you this?

Both, but just because you can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

A Thai native speaker told you, with a straight face, that "generally Thai only use the rising tone and tend to miss the others out"? He or she was pulling your chain.

No matter how big you think your Thai vocabulary is, until you can use all five tones correctly (or close, anyway) Thais will never think you're speaking clearly and probably won't understand half of the words you're trying to say. Until you can recognize them, it's going to be a rough road trying to understand them as well.

When you try to tell a Thai woman she's beautiful, a correct phrase would be: คุณสวยมาก (khun suay mach), but without the proper tones, it comes off as: คุณซวยมาก , which translates roughly as "you're very bad luck". Of course, almost any Thai woman knows what you're trying to say and because she knows the trouble that Westerners have with the language will be very happy that you're even close. But...I know from experience that using the tones correctly gets you a LOT more mileage

Originally Posted by JB Stuart

When you try to tell a Thai woman she's beautiful, a correct phrase would be: คุณสวยมาก (khun suay mach), but without the proper tones, it comes off as: คุณซวยมาก , which translates roughly as "you're very bad luck". Of course, almost any Thai woman knows what you're trying to say

Or worse, she thinks you are trying to tell her how unfortunate you were to make her acquaintance and instead assumes you're still smitten. No, really, baby, you're pretty, but I feel like I've followed a black cat under a ladder. . .

If I may interject here, I think it boils down to a couple of things. First the regional dialects, for instance the substitution in some areas of L for R and vice-versa. In some areas the R in the first consonant cluster is left out, i.e. "Khrap" becomes "Khap". When it comes to tones or lack thereof, I think it's more that with some speakers and regions the tones are less pronounced or are more "subtle" if you will, but they are there. A native speaker will catch them, but it is far more difficult for a non-native (and half deaf, such as myself) to hear such nuances.

The tendency to leave out consonants in consonant clusters, particularly R and L, you will find all over Thailand. Same goes with the pronounciation of Ror Ruea as Lor Ling.
One exception may be Kmer speakers in say Buriram who have a distinct R sound in their language.

I dare say it comes more down to education and sloppy pronounciation than regional differences. With exception of course of Lao, that does not have the letter R.
Most thais are perfectly able to use the proper pronounciation when they are pressed for it, e.g. in a formal setting.
They just don`t do it on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by pescator

Most thais are perfectly able to use the proper pronounciation when they are pressed for it, e.g. in a formal setting. They just don`t do it on a daily basis.

True, but some ignorant folks here seem to think all Thais speak the 'King's' Thai all the time, whereas the reality is that most Thais speak Thai pretty poorly in an everyday setting.

^
Got that right.
Like pronouncing Farang - "Falang"...

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

True, but some ignorant folks here seem to think all Thais speak the 'King's' Thai all the time, whereas the reality is that most Thais speak Thai pretty poorly in an everyday setting.

I felt tempted to use that expression myself. But I knew some smartass would say: Hey, the king speaks rachasap

Personally, being from the states, I tend to believe being "lazy" with language is universal. Couple that with regional accents and it can drive you batty if you are a language purist. For example, the pronunciation of words in the New England area can be vastly different from the mid-west and so on. Then there's the "lazy" aspect, such as the difference just between Chicago and southern Illinois. In SI they "warsh" the dishes. If one really wants to go a bit crazy, try Arkansas for a while....lol. I've noticed this in many countries. In some areas of OZ, there's the tendency to add an "r" to the end of words, so "area" becomes "arear" and so on. I really don't think there's an end to the argument of what "Proper" Thai is any more than there's an end to the discussion of what constitutes "Proper" English or any other language.