Thread: Thai Tone rules

I've create the tone rules for thai...mid, low and high consonants with different endings, tone marks, and such.

I have it in an excel spreadsheet, which is pretty handy, but have no idea how to do attachments here. So, i've piecemeal added it to this post. If you want the excel file, let me know, or if i can attach, let me know.

Middle Consonants ก จ ฎ ฏ ด ต บ ป อ Vowel Length Word Ending Tone Mark Tone Long None None Flat short None None Low Long/short Live None Flat Long/short Dead None Low Long/short ----- ก่ Low Long/short ----- ฟ้ Falling Long/short ----- ส๊ High Long/short ----- + Rising
High consonants: ข ฉ ฐ ถ ผ ฝ ศ ษ ศ ห Vowel Length Word Ending Tone Mark Tone Long None None Rising short None None Low Long/short Live None Rising Long/short Dead None Low Long/short ----- ก่ Low Long/short ----- ฟ้ Rising

Low consonants ค ฆ ง ช ซ ฌ ญ ฑ ฒ ณ ท ธ น พ ฟ ภ ม ย ร ล ว ฬ ฮ Vowel Length Word Ending Tone Mark Tone Long None None Flat Short None None High Long/Short Live None Flat Long Dead None Falling Short Dead None High Long/Short ----- ก่ Falling Long/Short ----- ฟ้ High
Live Endings: น ง ม ย ว น = ณ ญ ร ล ฬ





Dead Endings: ก ด บ

ก = ข ค ฆ


ด = ต จ ฎ ฏ ส ศ ษ ถ ฐ ท ธ ฒ ช ซ
บ = ป ฟ ภ ฝ





tone mark Transliteration Thai
ก่ mái eèk ไม้เอก
ฟ้ mái too ไม้โท
ส๊ mái dtrii ไม้ตรี
+ mái jàt-dtà-waa ไม้จัตวา


With ห before these consonants: ย น ล ญ ฬ ง ม ร ว makes the consonant a high consonant (with associated tone rules)



NOTE: ommited are the two obsolete consonants: ฃ and ฅ

Sorry, the formating didn't work.

Looks like s**t, my apologies

Dont worry about it

thanks for trying The Tones are the bane of my life I find it so hard to hear the difference Am I alone?

Originally Posted by up2you

thanks for trying The Tones are the bane of my life I find it so hard to hear the difference Am I alone?

Just can't identify Thai's using them at all most of the time, I must be tone deaf.

I think from a western we don't think about tones except for adding mood (happy, sad, mad, etc), but what i find here, if it's not the right tone, thai's are clueless what the word is. Even my girlfriend doesn't understand me half the time because of the tones...geez

Nice try jimbone and appreciate the effort, but as I can barely read any Thai, I got confused by the above. I need simple, like my brain, before I can grasp it.

Hint: You could do a screen shot of the Excel table. Then include it as an image.

Originally Posted by jimbone

I think from a western we don't think about tones except for adding mood (happy, sad, mad, etc), but what i find here, if it's not the right tone, thai's are clueless what the word is. Even my girlfriend doesn't understand me half the time because of the tones...geez

As well as questions (rising) and commands/exclamations (falling). One of the hardest things for Thais learning a Western language is to use tones in questions, or to get to a natural melody in a statement.. Beginners often sound like robots.

So basically, something like this:




( From thai-language.com )

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I've said it before, but generally Thai only use the rising tone and tend to miss the others out.

I don't think that's true at all. It is possible to change other tones to mid-tone in some circumstances (the fa in farang, for example, should be low but comes out mid, though why, I don't know.)

Originally Posted by robuzo

I also think it is certainly true that foreigners trying to speak Thai tend to overdo the tones- I've noticed that tendency in myself.

Definitely. I sound like a 14-year old boy at times - my voice goes all over the place.

Originally Posted by robuzo

The aspect of spoken Thai that drives me crazier than the tones are the consonant sounds. The vowels themselves are tricky enough, but Thais have a tendency not to enunciate consonants clearly,

Yes, again. I find the tones impossibly difficult but even more difficult are the บ/ป ด/ต differences and many of the short/long vowel pairs, like ไอ/อาย. I'm absolutely certain that I will never master these.

I am completely tonedeaf, but that hasn`t stopped me from learning the tones.

My advice would be to start off with one syllable words containing long vowels, babystepping
With long vowels it is much easier to determine what tone you actually hear.
Rising tone on a long vowel in a one syllable word should be quite easy to determine Khaa = leg ขา
Same with falling tone Khaa = kill or price ฆ่า/ค่า
There is no way you can mistake those 2 different tones IMO, especially if they are pronounced right after one another.

Now move on to the slightly more difficult ones, have a thai speaker pronounce them after one another.

Khaa low tone = galangal ข่า
Khaa high tone = to trade ค้า
khaa level/mid tone = ? beats me, regardless we are talking about tones here.

If one is unable to distinguish between the various tones when using this approach, I am afraid there is little hope.

This wont bring you that much further, just build your confidence to a point that you will realize, that YES I CAN hear the difference and tell which one is what in this particular situation anyway.

To eliminate misunderstandings, always use an entire sentense instead of just a single monosyllabic word which can have several if not many meanings depending on the intonation.
The context will usually point the listener in the right direction even though the pronounciation of the tones is less than perfect.

For anyone learning Thai but hesitant to dive into reading and writing, I thought I'd share that my speaking ability has accelerated like crazy as a result of learning to read. Once you memorize the alphabet in their correct classes (low/middle/high), reading is pretty simple. Far less exceptions to the rule than English. I don't know what I'm reading 75% of the time, but it has certainly helped my ability to communicate in everyday life!

Originally Posted by thethaireport

For anyone learning Thai but hesitant to dive into reading and writing, I thought I'd share that my speaking ability has accelerated like crazy as a result of learning to read. Once you memorize the alphabet in their correct classes (low/middle/high), reading is pretty simple. Far less exceptions to the rule than English. I don't know what I'm reading 75% of the time, but it has certainly helped my ability to communicate in everyday life!

Acquiring vocabulary in any language is very difficult if one can't read.

[quote=robuzo;1201730]

Originally Posted by thethaireport

Acquiring vocabulary in any language is very difficult if one can't read.

I can't believe how many words I was pronouncing incorrectly.

[QUOTE=thethaireport;1201815]

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by thethaireport

Acquiring vocabulary in any language is very difficult if one can't read.

I can't believe how many words I was pronouncing incorrectly.

I know what you mean, starting with the word "soi". The transliteration of Thai into roman letters is inconsistent and idiosyncratic to the point of hilarity.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I've said it before, but generally Thai only use the rising tone and tend to miss the others out. One problem foreigners have is that they try too hard with the tones. If you just go with the rising tone and forget the rest, you'll probably be OK, unless you're auditioning to be a newsreader.

What a pile of crap.

Originally Posted by English Noodles

What a pile of crap.

The only time I've every heard Thais speak properly is when they're on TV, otherwise their pronunciation is terrible. I stand by what I said, but you being the argumentative twat that you are will argue until you're blue in the face, it still won't change anything.

So you say that Thai people in general only use a single tone when speaking Thai, and me disagreeing with you makes me an argumentative twat, okay.

You are completely wrong though.

Great posts here. Permit me to add my 1%. Learning Thai is like learning to sing or play, jazz on a wind instrument. There are rising tones, which we call doink and falling tones which we call drop offs, straight tones, vibrato. Learning to play jazz is a lifetime achievement. At one time I had twice the technical ability that Miles Davis had, but his ability to make 4 measures of music with a few simple notes created a legion of followers (cool jazz). So learning Thai for me is like my learning to play and sing jazz. I can hear the tones, but imitating them takes hours of practice. The problem for us westerners is we want instant results. Sorry folks, it doesn't happen that way

I liked Robu's comment that acquiring vocabulary in any language is difficult if you can't read. However, basic conversation only amounts to a couple of thousand words and is an oral tradition. When 5 years olds start to learn how to read their vocab drops dramatically, then they pick it up by the time they are 12>18...IF they have the desire and the intelligence, which is the problem we have in California, we have millions of illegal Mexican immigrants whose parents do not even read their own language and have no real desire to learn English. Most educated Californians can speak basic Mexican Spanish, teachers(1st to 12th) grade, doctors, etc.

Originally Posted by English Noodles

So you say that Thai people in general only use a single tone when speaking Thai,

No I didn't.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

generally Thai only use the rising tone and tend to miss the others out.

Yes you did.

...in addition to the middle tone obviously, as you would have to have a somewhere to rise from.

Are you sure you're not related to Ant?