Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by jamescollister

TG, mike how you go with the ultra stuff, we spray Amway stuff on, I think it makes little difference, but the tappers swear by it.

cepitas, contrary to what most, Thai and farang think, there are rules and laws, sames as the west and rubber is regulated.

You need a license to buy rubber, the people who buy off you, will be buying on behalf of a licensed buyer. Think you need 3 mil Baht in the bank to apply, as the taxman kicks in, it's a business. Licensed buyers need to move volume, big bucks.

Next up the chain is the processors, a few big rubber houses control processing, lead to believe the open processing licenses are no more, fear of ASEAN.
That's me the smallest legal processor that I know of. I was very, very fortunate that I didn't listen to the Thais.
Went to the SME department in Ubon, glory be, I'm in an economic development area.

Still wasn't easy to get a license though, 3 sets of planning permission, local, provincial and national. Land had to get national industrial zoning, EPA, health and safety, plus a factory's licence, before the processing license was issued.

It sits idle now, but pay all the taxes etc, can be up and running in 48 hours, if the upturn comes Jim

What do you mean by processing in your factory..does not your factory license include buyers/sellers license....ie why idle?
All rather vague legalities etc methinks....many farmers process(ed) ie make/made sheet..couple of rollers, trays etc doubt they are licensed or even need one?

Hi,
I am new to here and am surprised how many you guys are involved in the rubberwood business. And I was too surprised when 2 weeks I made a quick trip to Chiang Khan, Loei, Nong Kai, seeing so many rubberwood plantations, some surely around 20 years old.

Wondering whether there are already in Isaan saw mills for RW? Since I am in a woodworking business, I had been facing problem with RW price increase in the South few years ago. They hugely sell to Chinese as the Chinese RW is not of very good quality for kitchenware as in Thailand. That's why I rather get a wood from US imported (oak, ash) for just a bit more price, however, neatly bounded in 3 - 4 m length, with width 5 - 12", quite different from the RW supply.

Last year I have visited few sawmills in the South, they mostly are not allowed to deal with anybody, huge companies takes the wood from them and market it.

Originally Posted by crepitas

What do you mean by processing in your factory..does not your factory license include buyers/sellers license....ie why idle?
All rather vague legalities etc methinks....many farmers process(ed) ie make/made sheet..couple of rollers, trays etc doubt they are licensed or even need one?
[at] [at]

Not illegal to make your own sheet, but once you buy others latex and make sheet, or what ever, your in VAT and company tax land, lots to being legal.

License covers buying, selling and processing, can make sheet, crepe, TSR, whatever, probably rubber gloves, condoms, tyres etc.

Idle, post back a ways cost of making sheet is 9 Baht more than the sale price of the sheet. Higher cost for me being small, have no money to wear the loss, so live off cup rubber from our plantations. Free market and all that, lucky or me, no mortgage, business loans, only car payments, will sit it out, hope for the best. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by crepitas

What do you mean by processing in your factory..does not your factory license include buyers/sellers license....ie why idle?
All rather vague legalities etc methinks....many farmers process(ed) ie make/made sheet..couple of rollers, trays etc doubt they are licensed or even need one?
[at] [at]

Not illegal to make your own sheet, but once you buy others latex and make sheet, or what ever, your in VAT and company tax land, lots to being legal.

License covers buying, selling and processing, can make sheet, crepe, TSR, whatever, probably rubber gloves, condoms, tyres etc.

Idle, post back a ways cost of making sheet is 9 Baht more than the sale price of the sheet. Higher cost for me being small, have no money to wear the loss, so live off cup rubber from our plantations. Free market and all that, lucky or me, no mortgage, business loans, only car payments, will sit it out, hope for the best. Jim

thx Jim...best of luck

Recent weeks report that the Rubber Farmers are in revolt over the possibility that the new military government is going to sell off all the surplus government warehouse rubber stocks at firesale prices. That ought to kill the industry for a few years here no doubt?

Originally Posted by ltnt

Recent weeks report that the Rubber Farmers are in revolt over the possibility that the new military government is going to sell off all the surplus government warehouse rubber stocks at firesale prices. That ought to kill the industry for a few years here no doubt?

On my way back from Kap Choeng Immigration to do my 90 day report last week over the 90 minutes or so it took me to drive home I saw tens of thousands of rai of immature rubber trees , it begs the question if there is a world wide glut of rubber right now ,WTF is going to happen in 3/4years when they come on stream ? ,subsidies in the end always fail cos you just cannot buck World wide prices at the cost to the tax payer

^ Post 585 mate. Don't know if farmers want the money up front first.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

^ Post 585 mate. Don't know if farmers want the money up front first.

Yeah I read your article with interest ,so much so I asked quite a few Farang rubber farmers who frequent my local watering hole if they had heard of the scheme ,all said they was unaware of it ,but was going to make inquiries if the deal was on the table ,a German guy who happens to be a good mate of mine says he's stopped tapping his 62 rai as his expenses are more than he can get for his product ,I really sympathize with the rubber farmers plight I really do, but as it is right now I think they are in for a rough ride before things (if ever) get better .

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by ltnt

Recent weeks report that the Rubber Farmers are in revolt over the possibility that the new military government is going to sell off all the surplus government warehouse rubber stocks at firesale prices. That ought to kill the industry for a few years here no doubt?

On my way back from Kap Choeng Immigration to do my 90 day report last week over the 90 minutes or so it took me to drive home I saw tens of thousands of rai of immature rubber trees , it begs the question if there is a world wide glut of rubber right now ,WTF is going to happen in 3/4years when they come on stream ? ,subsidies in the end always fail cos you just cannot buck World wide prices at the cost to the tax payer

200,000 tonnes, Thailand produces about 4 mil tonnes a year, not going to kill the market or years.

No glut of rubber, cheap oil is the problem, synthetic rubber accounts for 56% of world rubber use and it's oil based. Oil goes up, rubber becomes more attractive, price wise.

World economy has been bumping along the ground for 6 years, sooner or later a new boom time will come, just the nature of our system, boom and bust.
When the next cycle begins, anyone's guess, if you can ride out the bad times, you'll be OK, if not you go broke.

Tomorrow the US dollars, goes up I get more Baht, goes down I get less, oil fields in the Mid east go up in flames, oil goes up, I get more for my rubber.
I'll have another beer and see, worrying or predicting is non productive. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by ltnt

Recent weeks report that the Rubber Farmers are in revolt over the possibility that the new military government is going to sell off all the surplus government warehouse rubber stocks at firesale prices. That ought to kill the industry for a few years here no doubt?

On my way back from Kap Choeng Immigration to do my 90 day report last week over the 90 minutes or so it took me to drive home I saw tens of thousands of rai of immature rubber trees , it begs the question if there is a world wide glut of rubber right now ,WTF is going to happen in 3/4years when they come on stream ? ,subsidies in the end always fail cos you just cannot buck World wide prices at the cost to the tax payer

200,000 tonnes, Thailand produces about 4 mil tonnes a year, not going to kill the market or years.

No glut of rubber, cheap oil is the problem, synthetic rubber accounts for 56% of world rubber use and it's oil based. Oil goes up, rubber becomes more attractive, price wise.

World economy has been bumping along the ground for 6 years, sooner or later a new boom time will come, just the nature of our system, boom and bust.
When the next cycle begins, anyone's guess, if you can ride out the bad times, you'll be OK, if not you go broke.

Tomorrow the US dollars, goes up I get more Baht, goes down I get less, oil fields in the Mid east go up in flames, oil goes up, I get more for my rubber.
I'll have another beer and see, worrying or predicting is non productive. Jim

All hope never dies, Jim....
They'll always be a market for true organic latex rubber.
Even though the synthetic substitutes are incredible - they can match the properties of the real product.

The plans failed to keep prices from falling as supply continued to surge. Domestic rubber production rose 10% last year. Now, Thailand's agricultural authority says it will subsidize farmers' planting of oil palm trees on some rubber plantations.

May be the compensation to destroy immature rubber trees is linked to the government wanting farmers to switch to palm oil?

The Thai government this month unveiled a plan to offer farmers 21,000 baht ($655) for every 1,600 square meters of rubber trees they chopped down. That is an increase of more than 30% from the offer of 16,000 baht in place since 2011.

Thailand Encourages Rubber Farmers to Switch Crops - WSJ

Originally Posted by thaimeme

All hope never dies, Jim....
They'll always be a market for true organic latex rubber.
Even though the synthetic substitutes are incredible - they can match the properties of the real product.

When you hit the runway in that big plane, that's rubber burning not oil. Some of it may have been mine, world turns, today I have a bed to sleep in, food to eat, happy kids. Tomorrow, we'll see. Jim

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

The plans failed to keep prices from falling as supply continued to surge. Domestic rubber production rose 10% last year. Now, Thailand's agricultural authority says it will subsidize farmers' planting of oil palm trees on some rubber plantations.

May be the compensation to destroy immature rubber trees is linked to the government wanting farmers to switch to palm oil?

The Thai government this month unveiled a plan to offer farmers 21,000 baht ($655) for every 1,600 square meters of rubber trees they chopped down. That is an increase of more than 30% from the offer of 16,000 baht in place since 2011.

Thailand Encourages Rubber Farmers to Switch Crops - WSJ

This might seem to be a trend.
I've known a few traditional rubber farmers that have jumped ship and systematically gone over to something more lucrative.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Take out the replacement subsidy, the cost of planting, weeding and fertilizing the new crop, the labour costs, the management costs and the lack of a few years income. Is it worth it?

That could be said of most crops in Thailand. I feel sorry for the newbies that come out here and get talked into farming by their teelak

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by OhOh

Take out the replacement subsidy, the cost of planting, weeding and fertilizing the new crop, the labour costs, the management costs and the lack of a few years income. Is it worth it?

That could be said of most crops in Thailand. I feel sorry for the newbies that come out here and get talked into farming by their teelak

You missed out by their teelak "and her family"

^ It's the Teelak and possibly her younger sisters who "seal the deal" though.

Droit du seigneur Is there a Thai equivalent?

Are there any Ferangs who actually have a legal money making business that isn't tied to international financing? Its not like they are getting rich on rice farming, rubber or bar tending...?

Originally Posted by ltnt

Are there any Ferangs who actually have a legal money making business that isn't tied to international financing? Its not like they are getting rich on rice farming, rubber or bar tending...?

Married into wealth.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Are there any Ferangs who actually have a legal money making business that isn't tied to international financing? Its not like they are getting rich on rice farming, rubber or bar tending...?

Yes there are, few and far between, but there are farangs making money here.
BOI companies, small exporters, know a guy in my nearest town, has a car yard. I don't have a bank account in Australia, no outside income.
Nearest neighbor 58, been here 15 years, farming his wife's land, rich is a state of mind.
Are you rich if you work 6 days a week to keep your house and car, I don't and have a house, 2 cars.

You can make it anywhere in his world, if you don't rush in, take a long term approach and remember, no easy money to be made anywhere

" rich is a state of mind..
Are you rich if you work 6 days a week to keep your house and car
You can make it anywhere in his world, if you don't rush in, take a long term approach and remember, no easy money to be made anywhere"

wise words mate..

Rubber Farmer Self-Immolates As Crop Price Plunges
29 August 2014

NAKHON SI THAMMARAT — A rubber farmer in Nakhon Si Thammarat province committed suicide yesterday amid the plunging price of raw rubber, a staple crop for many farmers is southern Thailand.

Pithakchai Kongthongkam, 31, doused his body with petrol and lit himself on fire at his home in Thoong Song district yesterday, police say.

Mr. Pithakchai's widow, Sujitra Srisawang, told police that her husband was distressed by the recent drop in the rubber prices, which threatened his livelihood as a rubber farmer.

"The price for rubber used to be at 70-80 baht per kilogram. Our family had an earning of 500-600 baht per day, enough to get by,” Ms. Sujitra said. “But in these days the rubber price dropped to only 40 baht per kilogram, which means one third of our earnings disappeared.”

Thailand is the world’s largest producer and exporter, but falling global demand has caused rubber prices to drop 24 percent this year.

Ms. Sujitra added that her husband was forced to borrow money from neighbours and employers to take care of the family. "It's likely that my husband was so stressed he decided to kill himself," Ms. Sujitra said.

However, officers at Kapang Police Station said Mr. Pithakchai was recently arrested by police and charged with drug abuse, which may have played a role in his suicide.

While the motive behind Mr. Pithakchai's suicide remains unclear, the drop in rubber prices has caused a genuine crisis for rubber farmers in southern Thailand, whose livelihoods depend on the crop.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

World economy has been bumping along the ground for 6 years,

Most economies around the world are back to all time highs. The Aussie and US markets for starters. The world economy is actually doing really well but people still remember the crash 6 years ago.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

I don't and have a house, 2 cars.

Unfortunately your house has probably not increased in value by X% this year, your cars aren't this years model with this years number plate, you don't served ready made meals from a trendy deli and you don't travel all over the world for your holidays to experience the airports/security shake downs and postponed flights to take snaps of your self, to tweet your BFF's

Loser!!!!!