Thread: Project Magenta - hackintosh for iOS on Android hardware

Now, that's what I'm talking about:

Magenta Project Is A Linux-Based iOS Clone For Generic Hardware | iJailbreak.com

With The “Magenta Project” You Could Run iOS 5.0 On Android Smartphones And Other Generic Hardware

The hacker Chronic has recently been actively tweeting about an upcoming project called “Magenta“. The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel. In more technical terms it is an implementation of Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel that will by fully binary compatible with iPhone iOS 5.0 firmware. This essentially means that you could run a stable version of iOS on Android smartphones.



At this time not much is really known about the Magenta Project, but work is defiantly underway and more progress is being made by the day. In fact, the progress made already is actually available for other developers to poke and prod at as this is an open source project.



By now I am sure you are wondering whether or not actually running iOS applications will be possible considering Magenta is fully binary compatible with the iPhone iOS 5.0 firmware. According the developers:

No, because I’m not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think
about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit
or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not
the higher level OS. If you’re just interested in this because it will “run iOS apps”
please go away.

This is not to say however, that once the project is completed another developer will not come along and complete the work required to get iOS applications running on Magenta. For more information on the Magenta Project you can visit the official website. What do you think about eventually being able to run iOS on generic hardware like Android smartphones?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

This essentially means that you could run a stable version of iOS on Android smartphones.

Why would you want to?

Essentially, this is the route Android should have gone, instead of saddling us with the Java crap Andy Rubin is so fond of

Still the prick, Quacky. Gosling and Sun did Java, Oracle bought Sun when it was going tits up, and just lost a case against Google.

What the fuck are you blabbering on about now?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel.

what would anyone want to do that ? sounds like a complete waste of time,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel.

what would anyone want to do that ? sounds like a complete waste of time,

How refreshing it is to see you on this thread, Butterfly - you are such a breath of fresh air, compared to that other troll.

This isn't so much about running iOS on Android hardware, but rather the concept of assembling a smartPhone operating system that is not mired by all of Android's problems (namely its reliance on Java) - though, it should be possible to create an Android compatibility layer (similar to what RIM did for the Playbook, but one that would actually work) which would then even allow running Android software on Project Magenta (thus giving it a roster of actual apps to run - though, being Android apps, why'd anyone want to do that?).

Basically, it's about doing something natively based, versus Java crap.

^ I didn't see any evidence of Java domination under Android ? could you point to specifics ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ I didn't see any evidence of Java domination under Android ? could you point to specifics ?

The Android SDK, as well as all Android Apps, are written only in Java.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

Android has a large community of developers writing applications ("apps") that extend the functionality of the devices. Developers write primarily in a customized version of Java.

Android consists of a kernel based on the Linux kernel, with middleware, libraries and APIs written in C and application software running on an application framework which includes Java-compatible libraries based on Apache Harmony. Android uses the Dalvik virtual machine with just-in-time compilation to run Dalvik dex-code (Dalvik Executable), which is usually translated from Java bytecode.

While most Android applications are written in Java, there is no Java Virtual Machine in the platform and Java byte code is not executed. Java classes are compiled into Dalvik executables and run on Dalvik, a specialized virtual machine designed specifically for Android and optimized for battery-powered mobile devices with limited memory and CPU. J2ME support can be provided via third-party applications.

(Dalvik, by the way, sucks and really slows things down - to the point where a bunch of Europeans wrote an work-alike of Dalvik that runs about 10x faster. Obviously, Google chose not to use it, in the interest of being "open".)


What is Android? | Android Developers

The Android SDK provides the tools and APIs necessary to begin developing applications on the Android platform using the Java programming language.

Android will ship with a set of core applications including an email client, SMS program, calendar, maps, browser, contacts, and others. All applications are written using the Java programming language.

Android includes a set of core libraries that provides most of the functionality available in the core libraries of the Java programming language.

Every Android application runs in its own process, with its own instance of the Dalvik virtual machine.

Satisfied?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

(Dalvik, by the way, sucks and really slows things down - to the point where a bunch of Europeans wrote an work-alike of Dalvik that runs about 10x faster. Obviously, Google chose not to use it, in the interest of being "open".)

I assume you're talking about Dalvik Turbo?[/quote]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Satisfied?

it's a JIT compilation, so where is the problem ? it's compiled in native mode instead of using the JVM, so again where is your evidence that Android is dominated by Java ? The programming language of the platform is irrelevant if we are not in a scenario of Java Application servers, which doesn't seem to be the case for Android

in short where is the beef Quack Quack ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Satisfied?

it's a JIT compilation, so where is the problem ? it's compiled in native mode instead of using the JVM, so again where is your evidence that Android is dominated by Java ? The programming language of the platform is irrelevant if we are not in a scenario of Java Application servers, which doesn't seem to be the case for Android

in short where is the beef Quack Quack ?

Proving, once again, that you don't know what you are talking about, except for what you can glean from Google. It's quite obvious that you have never made any effort to even use or run the SDK, or to see what it takes to develop an Android app (a real app, not a quickie "Hello World" crap) - and, as pointed out, their JIT engine sucks, big time. They are only compensating for the sucking by "encouraging" manufacturers to throw faster hardware at it, to compensate for ever more complex and slower software (while Apple just improves existing OS and performance with subsequent releases - wait 48 hours).

Anyway, it's obvious that any real discourse is pointless with you - unlike HerrBarracuda who is just a troll, you simply don't have the qualifications, knowledge or experience to keep up with such a discussion.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

their JIT engine sucks, big time.

ok, so their JIT sucks, that's hardly a Java issue dominance, more like a compiler issue

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

you simply don't have the qualifications, knowledge or experience to keep up with such a discussion.

seem to me you got again exposed as ranting on something that was irrelevant to your little Android demonization exercise

Check out Dalvik Turbo - i.e. what can happen when people who know what they are doing put their mind to improving this stuff. This could not only have seriously improved responsiveness of existing apps, and removed the lag most often observed on Android, but it would have allowed to extend that improvement to even older devices (all the ones being orphaned by newer Android releases).

http://developer.mips.com/login/dalvik-turbo/

Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google - instead of spending $7 billion on Motorola, they could have used a tiny portion of that to significantly improve Android. Didn't happen, though - as is to be expected from leadership without vision.


Dalvik Turbo speeds up Android (3D cubes benchmark) - YouTube

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

there is no Java Virtual Machine in the platform and Java byte code is not executed.

just in case you missed it Quack Quack, also a lot of contradictions in your links above.

regardless, there no Java libs or JRE residing on Android devices, so again where is the dominance of Java on Android devices if there is nowhere to be found on their filesystem

Since the DSK is not installed on the target Android devices, but only on the Dev machine, I don't see how your claim that Java is dominating the Android devices can be valid.

I am sure you have a logical explanation ala Steve Jobs

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google - instead of spending $7 billion on Motorola, they could have used a tiny portion of that to significantly improve Android. Didn't happen, though - as is to be expected from leadership without vision.

ok fine, they could have bought a better compiler, but again, how is that related to Java dominance in Android devices ? there is no JAS or even a Java process,

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google

Might be a bit difficult that, considering they don't own it.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Since the DSK is not installed on the target Android devices, but only on the Dev machine, I don't see how your claim that Java is dominating the Android devices can be valid.

Good luck, then, of having Android do anything without Java involved... seeing as how even the built-in apps are Java based, you'd end up with a pretty pebble with no functionality.

... as always, you look at just a single thing, the pretty pebble in your hand, and you claim there's no Java involved - without Java, it wouldn't work.

That's my point... and yes, the JIT compiler is crap, and continues to be crap, 2 years after a better alternative was made available.

Oh look:

http://www.androidfreeware.net/tag-java.html

Like I said, I prefer GetJar myself.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

... as always, you look at just a single thing, the pretty pebble in your hand, and you claim there's no Java involved - without Java, it wouldn't work.

are you really that stupid ? your own links it says clearly that the apps are compiled in native mode and there are no Java Application servers or even Java libs on the running devices. Java as an application server is therefore non-present. Using the Java syntax in a Dev framework is a completely different issue which has nothing to do with Java as an application platform on the target device as you originally claimed. Again, you are showing you are completely lost outside your simplistic OSX world.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Good luck, then, of having Android do anything without Java involved... seeing as how even the built-in apps are Java based, you'd end up with a pretty pebble with no functionality.

Is there a JRE environment in Android devices ? and do Android apps rely on the JRE environment in their target deployment ? quite a simple question, if it's no, then those apps are non-java but native with what I assume are static libs.

Oh boy, are you ever dense...

Then again, this just goes to show, you're turning into just the exact same sort of troll as BarryCuda. Endless diatribing over unrelated minutiae.

Read the links I posted. There's your answers -- albeit you will probably fail to "get it", predictably.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

over unrelated minutiae

they are not unrelated, they address your baseless claims

is there a Java Application server in Android devices ? no, therefore they aren't java apps

it's really that simple,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

is there a Java Application server in Android devices ? no, therefore they aren't java apps

Riiiiiight, that's why everyone refers to them as "Java Apps".

Missed this:

java Android Freeware. Download free java apps for Android Phones.



See where it says "Download free java apps for Android phone"

Good bye, Butterfly.

You may go back to High-Fiving Barry, now.

people could refer them to MS apps, doesn't mean that they are MS apps

Java apps are clearly defined in terms of programming and deployment platform. What you described so far is not Java apps.

Anyway, I will look in my tab filesystem tonight and try to find Java libs and the JRE and see if there are any apps that are true Java "native" to support your claims. From your own links, it seems it will not be there.