US Stocks Plunge, Dow Falls Over 300 Points As Fears Grip Market

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 05:49 AM

Market Extra Archives | Email alerts
Sept. 2, 2011, 2:00 p.m. EDT
Dividend investors: Fatter payday on way

Cash back could hit $241 billion, up 18% from 2010

By Matt Andrejczak, MarketWatch
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Great news, dividend investors: You’re in for a fatter payday this year — and probably in 2012 as well.
America’s 500 largest publicly traded companies, bolstered by record profits and flush with cash, are increasing their dividends at the fastest pace in seven years.
This should comfort faithful dividend investors who got burned in 2009 when the global economy went into a state of shock, forcing General Electric /quotes/zigman/227468/quotes/nls/ge GE -2.72% , Citigroup /quotes/zigman/5065548/quotes/nls/c C -5.33% and other corporate titans to slash their dividends.
On the flip side, it shows that big companies are still reluctant to hire anyone despite the money piling up on their balance sheets following major the cost cuts they embarked upon to cope with the recession. The U.S. economy didn’t add any jobs in August, leaving the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1%. Read full story: Hiring grinds to halt in August.

Earnings 'collapse' feeds nonexistent jobs growth

The "beaten down" jobs figures are bad enough, says Tom Porcelli, chief U.S. economist at RBC Capital Markets. But earnings growth has also "collapsed," which means "we've effectively removed one of the key drivers of job growth."

In 2011, through Aug. 31, fully 243 — nearly half of the companies in the S&P 500 — have either increased or initiated a dividend payment, up from 175 during the first eight months of 2010 and a paltry 102 during the same eight months of 2009, S&P data shows.
Higher dividend are appearing across the board. Dow 30 component Verizon Communications /quotes/zigman/262341/quotes/nls/vz VZ -0.89% said Thursday that it would raise its dividend for a fifth straight year, pushing its annual payout up 2.6% to $2 a share.
Iron-ore miner Cliff Natural Resources /quotes/zigman/527698/quotes/nls/clf CLF -4.29% is doubling its yearly dividend to $1.12 a share, while diesel-engine maker Cummins /quotes/zigman/223917/quotes/nls/cmi CMI -4.34% is boosting its dividend by 52% for an annual payment of $1.60 a share.
And then there’s CF Industries /quotes/zigman/386496/quotes/nls/cf CF -0.33% . The fertilizer supplier quadrupled its annual dividend to $1.60 a share.
Howard Silverblatt, senior index analyst at Standard & Poor’s, estimated that investors will pocket $241 billion in dividend payments from S&P 500 companies this year, up from $205 billion in 2010 and $196 billion in 2009. He has calculated that 2012 dividend payments will be even fatter.
“Dividends are having a very good year,” Silverblatt said in a phone interview. “The good news is we’re on road to recovery. The bad news [for dividend investors] is you’re not back to 2008.”
Silverblatt said investor dividend paychecks are up 13.1% since December 2010. That’s still 8% less than 2008, when dividend checks totaled $248 billion.

Reuters

Walgreen has raised its dividend every year for a decade, as have such fellow household names as Pepsi, Coke and Colgate.
“Dividend investors are still short,” said Silverblatt, who surmised the difference will be made up by mid-2012, unless the economy slips into a double-dip recession.
So far this year, 226 companies have upped their dividends. Only four have cut theirs. That’s in stark contrast to 2008 and 2009, when 140 companies either cut or suspended their dividends, withdrawing $59 billion in payments investors had been counting on, according to S&P data.
By S&P sector this year, consumer staples, health care and industrials are leading the pack in terms of dividend payouts.
Walgreen Co. /quotes/zigman/245520/quotes/nls/wag WAG -2.47% is one consumer staple that’s raised its annual dividend for 10 straight years. So are PepsiCo /quotes/zigman/238082/quotes/nls/pep PEP -1.33% , Coca-Cola /quotes/zigman/222647/quotes/nls/ko KO -1.01% and Colgate-Palmolive /quotes/zigman/222734/quotes/nls/cl CL -1.54% .
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**Butterfly** · 05-09-2011, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by OhOh

True, if he is actually doing the above.

I am not on leverage per se, it is just a regular loan from a bank. My cash position is bigger then my borrowed position.

that's still being on leverage. You do know what it means, don't you ? how much equity did you put up ? 10% ?

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 09:56 AM

By Michael Kitchen
SYDNEY (MarketWatch) -- Jose Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission, said at a press conference in Canberra on Monday that Greece has said that it will meet its commitments. Barroso added that he's not expecting a recession in Europe and sees modest growth in the European Union. The euro traded at $1.4166 after the comments, from $1.4197 in late North American trading on Friday.

**socal** · 05-09-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by OhOh

True, if he is actually doing the above.

I am not on leverage per se, it is just a regular loan from a bank. My cash position is bigger then my borrowed position.

that's still being on leverage. You do know what it means, don't you ? how much equity did you put up ? 10% ?

I know it is still leverage but its not like a forex account or naked options deal where I can lose more then I invested.

**Butterfly** · 05-09-2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by OhOh

True, if he is actually doing the above.

I am not on leverage per se, it is just a regular loan from a bank. My cash position is bigger then my borrowed position.

that's still being on leverage. You do know what it means, don't you ? how much equity did you put up ? 10% ?

I know it is still leverage but its not like a forex account or naked options deal where I can lose more then I invested.

it doesn't matter where you get the loan from, if the asset value collapse, it won't be enough to cover the loan principals, and you will become a subprime mess of your own

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 10:36 AM

Sept. 4, 2011, 9:58 p.m. EDT
Australian investor confidence hits 2009 low

By Cynthia Koons

SYDNEY -- Investor confidence in Australia has hit its lowest point since the first quarter of 2009, when the domestic stock market plunged due to the unfolding global financial crisis, according to a survey released Monday by research firm CoreData.
For the third quarter of 2011, investor sentiment in Australia fell 15.7 points to minus 21.7, according to a survey of 820 investors.
Around 25% investors aren't making ends meet, while 11% are running into debt, the survey found.
"Australians are clearly panicking and preparing for tough times ahead," said Kristen Turnbull, CoreData's head of advice, wealth and superannuation. She added that "80% of respondents predict an economic slowdown over the coming quarter. Investors have become much more negative about business conditions, with 68% of respondents expecting them to deteriorate, up from 44% last quarter."

**Butterfly** · 05-09-2011, 11:26 AM

August has been brutal, some funds firm are down 20% this year alone, this is an echo of the 2009 crisis, an after shock, all thanks to the Euro debt

some of my US stocks are down 60% actually, a bloodbath

thank god I am diversified with Thai stocks

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

August has been brutal, some funds firm are down 20% this year alone, this is an echo of the 2009 crisis, an after shock, all thanks to the Euro debt

some of my US stocks are down 60% actually, a bloodbath

thank god I am diversified with Thai stocks

Took my losses in Feb '10, close to 9 mill..had some C.D.'s go to a IPO,
didn't last the twelve months...until tax relief, before tanking.

Have be largely sitting pat on core Bank Bills at 7%....
been active in the last six weeks....some fair positions...only time will tell.

The ASX portfolio is aav 9%+ trailing dividends.

Siam Commercial offers stock trading a/c to farangs...cash only though...no leverage.
Have done very little with my a/c other than look at a watchlist occasionaly....prefer the ASX... more liquidity.

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 01:26 PM

Peter Brimelow Archives | Email alerts
Sept. 5, 2011, 12:56 a.m. EDT
Gold bugs cheers bounce-back

Commentary: Gold climbs back, though gold shares still lag
By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Does gold’s bounce-back vindicate the bugs? They say yes!
At the CME floor close on Friday, the December gold contact /quotes/zigman/661658 GC1Z +0.21% was up $47.80 or 2.53% on the day, and $79.60 or 4.3% on the week. It had broken out of a sideways pattern which had held since early Tuesday morning and was $170.80 or 10% higher than the low seen during the previous week’s dramatic sell-off.
And gold went higher in electronic aftermarket on Friday afternoon. On a weekly settlement basis, this close was a record.

Gold shares celebrated: The NYSE Arca Gold Bugs Index /quotes/zigman/6015494 XX:HUI +2.39% closed at a record high, as did the large-cap gold share Market Vectors ETF Trust Market Vectors Gold Miners /quotes/zigman/420125/quotes/nls/gdx GDX +2.49% .
However, this is less impressive than it sounds. There has been little advance from the previous phase of strength in early April, although gold itself is 30% higher. What happened to the famed leverage of gold shares?
Still, long time followers of gold are feeling pretty cheerful. Indeed, the normally understated Australian commentator who edits The Privateer was positively triumphant this weekend: “The gold price is almost all the way up to the top of its bull-market channel again. If it keeps going up from here and breaches that channel (goes above it), then there is absolutely no telling how high it could go.”
Privateer added, characteristically: “Of course, the powers that be know that. They will not ‘let it go’ without a fight. Another and bigger margin hike by the CME is possible, indeed it is likely. Don’t forget, it took at least four margin hikes to stall silver short of the $50 level at the end of April.”
“But in the larger scheme of things, all that is irrelevant. It is achingly obvious that gold is now the premier CURRENCY in the world as far as the global markets are concerned. Not even the Swiss franc can keep up with it.”
Part of the reason for this confidence: It is now very well known that the fourth quarter is the season of high demand from the major gold-consuming markets, particularly India.
The ever-informative Edel Tully at UBS noted on Friday morning: “Our historical physical sales to India ... data for the last three years shows that demand typically accelerates in the last four and five months of the year, with Q4 volumes between 150% and 65% higher than Q1 and Q2 respective levels.”
With gold shares lagging the metal so much, and for so many weeks, there is an obvious possibility of a dramatic catch-up play, even if gold merely sustains these levels.
That is why this week’s gold-share action was so delightedly scrutinized by several observers.
The author of Trader Dan’s Market Views was emphatic on Friday: “Note that the HUI has smashed, and I do mean ‘smashed’ through overhead resistance near 610 and is charging higher. … I do find it very telling that the mining sector shattered upside chart resistance on a day in which the broader stock markets are cratering.”
Over at JSMineSet, veteran gold hand Jim Sinclair the previous evening endorsed a bullish but complex gold-share chart study by one of his contributors, saying he was “... spot on. There is a quiet but definitive technical turn taking place in the group.”
Long-term chartist Martin Pring had the same thought in his Monthly, published this weekend: “The Gold Miners ETF, the GDX, has been lagging the metal quite badly. However, it looks as though it may be in the process of breaking to the upside. …The relative action of the GDX against the S&P500 Index /quotes/zigman/3870025 SPX -2.53% also looks to be positive.”
Maybe gold shares, more than gold, will be Q4’s stars.

**Butterfly** · 05-09-2011, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by baby maker

Siam Commercial offers stock trading a/c to farangs...cash only though...no leverage.

there are plenty of Thai brokers that will do a better job than a bank since you have to pay extra commissions if you go through banks

buying stocks through banks is not wise, cheaper and easier with Thai brokers, also more secure

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by baby maker

Siam Commercial offers stock trading a/c to farangs...cash only though...no leverage.

there are plenty of Thai brokers that will do a better job than a bank since you have to pay extra commissions if you go through banks

buying stocks through banks is not wise, cheaper and easier with Thai brokers, also more secure

Any recomended brokers...for members...
No doubt a search will turn it up...but recomendations can point one in the right direction.

**Butterfly** · 05-09-2011, 03:59 PM

go to settrade.com website, you can have access to online brokers, which is even better

you have DMA (Direct Maket Access) to the SET, so no need to talk to a live person, and can enter directly your trades in their nice "trade console" and see your trade executed live

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

go to settrade.com website, you can have access to online brokers, which is even better

you have DMA (Direct Maket Access) to the SET, so no need to talk to a live person, and can enter directly your trades in their nice "trade console" and see your trade executed live

Loading the platform now....thanks...have a look and let you know....

And the latest from CNN Money....see below...

[The German High Court decission 07/09, on the legality of the bailout fund for EU members....whether it contrivenes the EU treaties...will be signifiant ...
could cause havoch in the markets....
hope they take a pass and waffel on....leaving the market undecided..personally i would want to see it gap....]

Stocks: Jobs and Europe dominate

By Maureen Farrell September 4, 2011: 8:24 AM ET

Click on chart for more market data

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- After a three-day weekend, investors will return to a market anxiously anticipating crises: a double-dip recession and a European debt crisis. Both have the potential to roil markets already on edge.

The threat of a recession grows stronger every day, and investors are analyzing every kernel of economic data for signs of a slackening in consumer purchasing or a continued downturn in hiring.

"Right now, we're in a situation where I think a lot of economists think that we're likely to avert a recession by a thin margin, but the threat is much higher than two months ago," says Stephen Freedman, the head of investment strategy at UBS Wealth Management.

In the prior week, economic reports highlighted both the wariness of consumers and the stalling job market: Consumer confidence fell to its lowest level since August 2009; and with net zero job growth, the economy clocked its weakest jobs reading since September 2010. Following Friday's jobs report, all three indices posted their sharpest one-day percentage drop in more than two weeks.
Recession risk just got worse

With just a few economic reports on tap after the Labor Day weekend, investors will be digging into any and all numbers for added granularity on the previous dismal readings on the health of the economy. In particular, weekly jobless claims data will take on added significance.
"We really need to get a sense of whether the labor market is hanging in there," Freedman said.
While investors monitor unemployment data, President Obama will address Congress on his administration's plan to resuscitate hiring in the U.S. But don't expect his words to move markets, as investors doubt whether any plan he proposes can move through the sharply divided Congress quickly.

Problems in Europe continue to threaten the global economy. U.S. investors will be eyeing both how European bond markets perform, and statements from major European leaders. Investors are looking for signs that both borrowers and lenders within the eurozone will cooperate to shore up confidence in the E.U. financial system.
"There no resolution to the situation in Europe. The waves of fear just recede for awhile," says investment manager Randy Warren, who manages $75 million in assets for Warren Financial Services.
On the Docket
Tuesday: The Institute for Supply Management's manufacturing report for August will be released at 10 a.m. ET. Economists expect a reading of 51, down from July's reading of 52.7.
Auto parts retailer Pep Boys (PBY) will report quarterly earnings after the market's close.
Wednesday: At 7 a.m. ET, the Mortgage Bankers Association will release its weekly report on the number of Americans who filed applications. Last week the figure dropped 9.6%.
Surprising investment safe havens

The Federal Reserve will release its September "Beige Book" at 2 p.m. ET. Investors will be watching, as the book offers a localized and anecdotal account of economic conditions in the United States.
Before the bell, retailer Talbots (TLB) will report. After the close, homebuilder Hovnanian Enterprises (HOV) will release its earnings.
Thursday: The Labor Department will release its weekly initial jobless claims report at 8:30 a.m. ET. Economists expect 400,000 Americans will file new claims for unemployment, after 409,000 were filed in the previous week.
July trade balance figures for the U.S. will be released at 8:30 a.m. ET. The numbers are expected to show a $51.5 billion trade deficit. In June the trade deficit was $53.1 billion.
Also on tap, the Federal Reserve's July consumer credit report will come out at 3 p.m. ET. The number is expected to fall to $5 billion from $15.5 billion in June.
Friday: July wholesale inventory figures will be released at 10 a.m. ET. Economists expect wholesale inventories rose 0.7%, after rising 0.6% in June, according to Briefing.com
Before the opening bell, retailer Lululemon Athletica (LULU) will report earnings.

**baby maker** · 05-09-2011, 08:20 PM

Might be just a bit too hot....

Europe Markets Archives | Email alerts
Sept. 5, 2011, 8:57 a.m. EDT
Europe stocks sink, led by Clariant, RBS

German chancellor’s CDU party crushed in state elections

By Barbara Kollmeyer, MarketWatch
MADRID (MarketWatch) — European stock markets fell sharply Monday, with Deutsche Bank AG leading several banks lower after being named in a U.S. mortgage-related lawsuit, while a defeat for the party of Germany’s chancellor in regional elections weighed on already downbeat sentiment.
The Stoxx Europe 600 index /quotes/zigman/2380150 XX:SXXP -2.77% fell 2.8% to 226.44 in afternoon trading. It tumbled 2.4% on Friday after data showed no growth in U.S. payrolls in August, a result well short of expectations. Asian stocks slumped Monday, while U.S. markets are closed for the Labor Day holiday.
Click to Play

Europe's Week Ahead: ECB, Bank of England in focus

The European Central Bank and the Bank of England are both expected to leave interest rates on hold on Thursday. The spotlight will fall on ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet's press conference.

A big decliner for the Stoxx 600 was Clariant AG /quotes/zigman/280147 CH:CLN -14.94% . Shares sank 14% after the Swiss specialty-chemical group cut its full-year sales and profit outlook owing to a strong Swiss franc and the global economic slowdown.
Other chemical stocks followed Clariant lower, such as BASF AG /quotes/zigman/601736 DE:BAS -4.51% , down 4.5%, and Bayer AG /quotes/zigman/560388 DE:BAYN -2.49% off 2.6% in Frankfurt.
Meanwhile, European bank shares also fell sharply.
“The banking sector continues to remain under pressure today as it underperforms across Europe,” said Manoj Ladwa, senior trader at ETX Capital, in emailed comments. “The chances of a near-term recovery remain slim as euro-zone debt concerns, structural reform and a lawsuit for allegedly mis-selling mortgage debt all weigh heavy on the sector.”
Shares of Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC /quotes/zigman/530544/quotes/nls/rbs RBS -4.69% /quotes/zigman/155978 UK:RBS -10.27% sank 11% after the bank was named last week in a lawsuit by the Federal Housing Finance Agency. The agency alleges that major U.S. and European banks misrepresented the quality of mortgages they sold during the housing bubble, and it is suing for billions of dollars in losses. Read U.S. sues big banks over mortgage losses
Also named in the lawsuit were Deutsche Bank AG /quotes/zigman/207002/quotes/nls/db DB -6.04% /quotes/zigman/207036 DE

BK -6.65% , down 8.6%, Societe Generale SA /quotes/zigman/167380 FR:GLE -7.24% /quotes/zigman/131398 SCGLY -6.02% down 8%, Barclays PLC /quotes/zigman/152323/quotes/nls/bcs BCS -7.67% /quotes/zigman/301787 UK:BARC -5.48% , down 6%, and HSBC Holdings PLC /quotes/zigman/13843 UK:HSBA -2.38% /quotes/zigman/207333/quotes/nls/hbc HBC -1.44% , off 2.8%.
The French CAC 40 index /quotes/zigman/3173214 FR:PX1 -3.64% was among the hardest-hit; it dropped 3.7% to 3,033.58. In addition to Societe Generale, shares of BNP Paribas SA /quotes/zigman/132276 FR:BNP -6.94% slumped 6.3% and Credit Agricole SA /quotes/zigman/295440 FR:ACA -5.88% slid 5.8%.
The Spanish IBEX 35 index /quotes/zigman/2759618 XX:IBEX -3.12% dropped 3%, as Banco Santander SA /quotes/zigman/205154 ES:SAN -4.39% /quotes/zigman/188106/quotes/nls/std STD -5.19% stumbled 5%.
German election results weigh

The bad news seemed to keep coming after negotiations between Greece and international lenders stalled on Friday amid disagreement over the nation’s progress on reducing its budget deficit.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, which leads a coalition government, was trounced in a regional election on Sunday. Some analysts believe the results are a sign of voters venting their frustration at how the government has handled the European debt crisis. Read No homecoming for Germany’s Merkel
“It is rather inconvenient timing for more problems to surface as the market is still digesting the weak U.S. jobs figure last Friday,” said Jordan Lambert, trader at Spreadex Ltd, in emailed comments.
Losses picked up in the afternoon for the German DAX 30 index /quotes/zigman/2380246 DX

AX -3.59% , tumbling 3.8% to 5,324.68. Along with Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank AG /quotes/zigman/144405 DE:CBK -4.61% slid 5%. Heavyweight industrial conglomerate Siemens AG /quotes/zigman/279102/quotes/nls/si SI -3.23% /quotes/zigman/206549 DE:SIE -3.54% slid nearly 4% and losses for chemical companies such as BASF also weighed.
Data out Monday showed private-sector activity across the euro zone grew at the slowest rate in two years in August, with the Markit composite purchasing managers index dropping to 50.7 from 51.1 in July. A preliminary estimate showed the data at 51.1.
In London, the FTSE 100 /quotes/zigman/3173262 UK:UKX -2.22% fell 2.2% to 5,172.55 as big banks and resource stocks dragged the index south. Shares of Royal Dutch Shell PLC /quotes/zigman/379078/quotes/nls/rds.a RDS.A -1.35% , /quotes/zigman/359915 UK:RDSA -2.85% slid 3% and miner Rio Tinto PLC /quotes/zigman/155899 UK:RIO -4.04% /quotes/zigman/182541/quotes/nls/rio RIO -2.05% slumped over 4%.

**Tom Sawyer** · 05-09-2011, 08:23 PM

So is the IMF in there again telling the Greeks and others that they must sell all their family silver to multi-national corporations or be refused a lifeline? (like they did to Indonesia and others in SE Asia?)

**Hampsha** · 05-09-2011, 08:28 PM

Another clip from Keiser. Gets better later on in this if you have the time.

**OhOh** · 05-09-2011, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

IMF in there again telling the Greeks

Weren't the Greeks "advised" by Goldman Sachs to buy known, by GS, dodgy securities? Where is their lawsuit against their advisers?

**OhOh** · 05-09-2011, 09:32 PM

China’s SGE to raise gold, silver margin requirements from Sep 9 | www.commodityonline.com | 3

"SHANGHAI (Commodity Online) : China’s largest Gold exchange, The Shanghai Gold Exchange will raise trading limits and margin requirements on its gold and Silver forward contracts on Sept. 9 to prevent excessive volatility.

In a statement,SGC said it will temporarily raise trade margins and daily trading limits for both its gold and silver forward contracts ahead of a long weekend to allow traders more latitude to adjust to overseas price movements.

Chinese exchanges are closed Sept 10-12 for the Mid-Autumn Festival.

Trading margins for the gold forward contract, Au(T+D) , will be raised starting Sept 9 to 13 percent from 12 percent, while the daily circuit breaker would be lifted to 10 percent from 9 percent."

continues......

**Tom Sawyer** · 05-09-2011, 10:05 PM

Another gerat Keiser Report. Thanks. You can see why RT is blocked from the main cable/sat providers.

**Hampsha** · 06-09-2011, 05:38 AM

There's so much interesting stuff in the clip. The guy says that gold should rise to about $20,000 an ounce to cover every dollar that foreign central banks are holding. To replace a failed US dollar currency it would require a value of $203,000 per ounce.

The issue of food stamps being a 'black market' currency is interesting and the fact that we have printed more currency in the past three years than in the last 200 years.

Where is all this going? Opinions seem so divided on the future of the US yet so many Americans seem to be going through their daily lives without following the news on this. Ignorance might be bliss or maybe all this pro-gold 'propaganda' is just imaginary. Some times I just want to just off my questions on all this and just let whatever happens happen. I really don't have any financial stake in it and the stress of this might be worse for my life than just dealing with the tsunami when it comes ashore. What can the average joe do?

**baby maker** · 06-09-2011, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hampsha

Another clip from Keiser.

Pretty damning stuff....but what I fail to understand is the alternative to the feit currency/gold or gold/feit currency...have it as you will...what is the mechanism, as clearly it could be said neither are workable long term.

In this report above...if you are willing to view it to the end...it is stated there is only 8% cover on the US feit on issue...that is the total issue, all negiotable instruments....at present day values for gold.

Even then, a question is raised whether the gold is actually in possession of the Fedral Reserve....as the US gold was hander over by the US Treasury in 1934, to the Fed, in return for feit paper promises.

THIS MATH IS UNWORKABLE....gold is US$20500/ ozs....US$23750 on last nights quote...which efectivelly makes both gold and feit unworkable....

What 2 to 3 ozs for a motor car...yer right!... that's going to work....

Now, no doubt...Social will chime in and table his gold backed Euro....

but it's still feit.....there just is enough Gold to go around....to make the system work at the level we expect it to work....and at a level at which it must work, to avoid total anarchy world wide.

ANYONE....Neo...here is the discussion you seek...comment...Please!.

Social....just a clue...we all know you have gold....

...now the reasons....a rational on the end game....not just some ramped up doctrine from Gold bugs...feel good motherhood statements....

a locical view on the outcome will surffice....you can do that?

One possible outcome....the traditional outcome...hugh losses...and a world wide depression....

and if you think you are going to escape the turmoil such an event in this modern time will bring, just because you have gold....think again...

you will be the first target....maybe better to be broke on paper...than broke with gold in a disfunctual community where you can not show you gold for fear of your life..but thats a long way down the track....

and if the system crashes....Gold will crash with it.....

**baby maker** · 06-09-2011, 07:00 AM

Marsh on Monday Archives | Email alerts
Sept. 5, 2011, 6:00 p.m. EDT
Why Gadhafi’s demise may presage end of the euro

Commentary: Germany is rethinking the unthinkable

By David Marsh, MarketWatch
LONDON (MarketWatch) — Nobody quite realizes it. With the demise of Moammar Gadhafi, the specter of monetary union in Africa has crashed to earth, too.
Tripoli’s thankfully deposed leader was a great advocate of forging African Monetary Union (AMU) by 2021 — a goal that was recently reaffirmed by African central bankers meeting in secret in a bomb-disturbed conclave in the Libyan capital.
Many African leaders have resolutely ignored the lessons of Europe’s misbegotten monetary adventure. Now, with the toppling of the North African dictator, the African currency dream — like many other Gadhafi fancies — has (with any luck) been consigned to the scrapbooks of history.
Click to Play

Noose tightens around Gadhafi

Fighters loyal to Libya's interim government say they are closing in on Moammar Gadhafi. Video courtesy of Reuters.

At the monetary gathering a few weeks ago in Tripoli, Gadhafi’s henchmen apparently locked the doors and declared the airport closed in a bid to force through agreement that the ill-conceived date of 2021 for introducing the Afro (with the headquarters of the African central bank to be based in Nigeria) was still valid. Desperate times, desperate measures.
Things have not got quite to that stage in Germany, the heartland of the euro /quotes/zigman/4867933/sampled EURUSD -0.21% . The airports are still open, and Angela Merkel has not yet resorted to encaging deputies in Bundestag committee rooms to cajole agreement on funding for Greece. But maybe we are not too far away.
The Bundesbank, the Germans’ final repository of financial orthodoxy, is maintaining a staccato throb of opposition to purchases of weaker country bonds by the European central banks. An unusually vehement article in the bank’s August monthly report, together with a speech last week by Jens Weidmann, the new president, spelled out the risks for parliamentary democracies if bailouts for weaker countries progressively bypass the normal mechanisms of democratic control. German lawmakers have taken the warnings to heart, demanding full scrutiny of new legislation to increase the powers and the scope of Europe’s EFSF rescue fund.

N.B. *

*Thorough parliamentary control over euro bailouts is likely to be a minimum condition for the German Constitutional Court, which gives a preliminary judgment on Wednesday on lawsuits brought against assistance for struggling euro states from Europe’s creditor nations. With countries like Finland and Slovakia lining up to demand collateral from the errant Greeks, and the German press speculating about a euro-induced downfall of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition government, the single currency’s woes have brought a touch of Gadhafi-style Götterdämmerung to Berlin.*

Old alliances and long-established traditions are starting to buckle.
Germany’s leading business daily, Handelsblatt (a newspaper for which — to declare an interest — I have written a regular column for several years) is normally a staunch supporter of the euro. Shortly after the ECB started buying Greek bonds in May 2010, the newspaper launched a campaign to persuade readers (and several hapless journalists on the staff unfortunate to be in the office on the day that the editor hit on this particular wheeze) to purchase Greek sovereign debt to show European solidarity. All that has now come to an end. On Friday, the paper published what it called a “Titanic scenario” to illustrate a “worst case” outcome for monetary union, with Greece leaving the euro in April 2012, the German parliament turning down eurobonds and the euro splitting into southern and northern components in August.
What supreme flexibility! In Germany, previously outrageous predictions have now been recast as perfectly conceivable outcomes — entertained by people who, a year ago, would have scorned such projections as the height of lunacy. Just as with the Northern African despot’s collapse, under the pressure of circumstances, the unthinkable can, sometimes, actually happen.

Marsh is co-chairman of the Official Monetary and Financial Institutions Forum.

U.S. Stock Futures

S&P -7.10 / -0.62% Level1,138.60 Fair Value1,172.91Difference-34.31Data as of 7:39pm ET

Nasdaq -18.25 / -0.86% Level2,113.50 Fair Value2,167.43 Difference-53.93 Data as of 6:48pm ET

Dow -284.00 / -2.53% Level10,924.00 Data as of 7:03pm ET

**baby maker** · 06-09-2011, 10:08 AM

Metals Stocks Archives | Email alerts
Sept. 5, 2011, 10:55 p.m. EDT
Gold extends gains on euro-zone jitters

By Virginia Harrison, MarketWatch
SYDNEY (MarketWatch) — Gold futures edged higher in electronic trading Tuesday, as European sovereign-debt woes and global growth concerns boosted the metal’s safe-haven appeal.
Gold for December delivery /quotes/zigman/661658 GC1Z +1.48% rose to $1,903.50 an ounce during Asian trading hours, up from $1,902.80 late Monday in the U.S. The contract had risen as high as $1,908.40 an ounce on Monday, according to data from FactSet, though all trade was electronic, as floor trade was closed for the U.S. Labor Day holiday.
Click to Play

Euro-zone rescues grow less convincing

Each euro zone rescue launched over the past couple of years has been less convincing. In part, that's because investors and voters are starting to realize the cost and magnitude of lost sovereignty is greater than they'd previously thought.

“We saw gold surging through session highs, as euro-zone debt concerns continued to plague financial markets,” said Ong Yi Ling, investment analyst at Phillip Futures in Singapore.
The latest stumbling block in Europe’s ongoing sovereign-debt crisis included reports of suspension of talks between Greece and its regional lenders, as well as reports of pressure on Italy to step up its austerity measures.
On Wednesday, Germany is due to receive a domestic court ruling on the legality of its euro-bailout contributions, which “could reduce the freedom of Germany to help other indebted nations,” Ong said.
“In the short term, gold prices are going to be underpinned by many supporting factors, whether its euro-zone debt concerns, slowing growth in the U.S. and the potential for another round of quantitative easing,” she said.
Other metals

The broader metals complex weakened on Tuesday.
December silver /quotes/zigman/663010 SI1Z +0.17% lost 11 cents, or 0.1%, to $43.02 an ounce.
Copper for December delivery /quotes/zigman/635638 HG1Z -1.95% shed 5 cents, or 1.3%, to $4.07 per pound.
Platinum for October delivery /quotes/zigman/2304883 PL1V +0.07% slipped $1.00, or 0.1%, to $1,883.80 an ounce, while December palladium /quotes/zigman/2304931 PA1Z -1.70% declined $13.30, or 1.7%, to $769.90 an ounce.

Virginia Harrison is a MarketWatch reporter based in Sydney.

U.S. Stock Futures

S&P -29.10 / -2.49% Level1,140.20 Fair Value1,172.91Difference-32.71Data as of 10:39pm ET

Nasdaq -44.75 / -2.07% Level2,120.00 Fair Value2,167.43 Difference-47.43 Data as of 10:26pm ET

Dow -237.00 / -2.11% Level10,971.00 Data as of 10:07pm ET

**socal** · 06-09-2011, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by baby maker

Originally Posted by Hampsha

Another clip from Keiser.

Pretty damning stuff....but what I fail to understand is the alternative to the feit currency/gold or gold/feit currency...have it as you will...what is the mechanism, as clearly it could be said neither are workable long term.

In this report above...if you are willing to view it to the end...it is stated there is only 8% cover on the US feit on issue...that is the total issue, all negiotable instruments....at present day values for gold.

Even then, a question is raised whether the gold is actually in possession of the Fedral Reserve....as the US gold was hander over by the US Treasury in 1934, to the Fed, in return for feit paper promises.

THIS MATH IS UNWORKABLE....gold is US$20500/ ozs....US$23750 on last nights quote...which efectivelly makes both gold and feit unworkable....

What 2 to 3 ozs for a motor car...yer right!... that's going to work....

Now, no doubt...Social will chime in and table his gold backed Euro....

but it's still feit.....there just is enough Gold to go around....to make the system work at the level we expect it to work....and at a level at which it must work, to avoid total anarchy world wide.

ANYONE....Neo...here is the discussion you seek...comment...Please!.

Social....just a clue...we all know you have gold....

...now the reasons....a rational on the end game....not just some ramped up doctrine from Gold bugs...feel good motherhood statements....

a locical view on the outcome will surffice....you can do that?

One possible outcome....the traditional outcome...hugh losses...and a world wide depression....

and if you think you are going to escape the turmoil such an event in this modern time will bring, just because you have gold....think again...

you will be the first target....maybe better to be broke on paper...than broke with gold in a disfunctual community where you can not show you gold for fear of your life..but thats a long way down the track....

and if the system crashes....Gold will crash with it.....

First of all, if you think you are going to escape turmoil because you have no gold, think again.

The Euro FLOATS gold on the asset side of its balance sheet marked to market. It is just holding its gold as a wealth reserve asset. The Euro currency itself is completely severed from gold. It is not backed by gold or convertible at any fixed price and it never will be. There will be no new gold standard.

Both Max Kieser and Mike Malony don't really know what is going on.

Right now, government bonds are the wealth reserve asset of the world. US, Canadian, Japanese, you name it, these bonds are the wealth reserve asset. These government bonds are not even really assets, they are just fiat promises to pay more fiat in the future. So essentially, the world uses fiat as a store of value AND fiat as a medium of exchange.

Freegold is the inevitable transition to the 2 functions of money being split. Fiat will continue its roll as medium of exchange but it will not and cannot continue its roll as store of value. Gold will take on the roll as store of value. If you split the functions of money then you don't have the issue that there is not enough gold to go around. Gold standards are flawed because they try and peg easy money with hard money(store of value with medium of exchange) Notice how gold gas gone up $100 or so an oz every 6 or 12 months since the Euro was introduced ? I posted the link to the Euro freegold blog before, maybe you should read it. This is nothing you can understand in a few paragraphs. Its a deep subject.

Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - Launch of euro transactional currency
Friday, February 8, 2002 - GOLD ABOVE $300
Monday, December 1, 2003 - GOLD ABOVE $400
Thursday December 1, 2005 - GOLD ABOVE $500
Monday, April 17, 2006 - GOLD ABOVE $600
Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - GOLD ABOVE $700
Friday, November 2, 2007 - GOLD ABOVE $800
Monday, January 14, 2008 - GOLD ABOVE $900
Monday, March 17, 2008 - GOLD ABOVE $1000
Monday, November 9, 2009 - GOLD ABOVE $1100
Tuesday, December 1, 2009 - GOLD ABOVE $1200
Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - GOLD ABOVE $1300
Wednesday, November 9, 2010 - GOLD ABOVE $1400
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - GOLD ABOVE $1500

**Bangyai** · 06-09-2011, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by socal

Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - Launch of euro transactional currency
Friday, February 8, 2002 - GOLD ABOVE $300
Monday, December 1, 2003 - GOLD ABOVE $400
Thursday December 1, 2005 - GOLD ABOVE $500
Monday, April 17, 2006 - GOLD ABOVE $600
Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - GOLD ABOVE $700
Friday, November 2, 2007 - GOLD ABOVE $800
Monday, January 14, 2008 - GOLD ABOVE $900
Monday, March 17, 2008 - GOLD ABOVE $1000
Monday, November 9, 2009 - GOLD ABOVE $1100
Tuesday, December 1, 2009 - GOLD ABOVE $1200
Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - GOLD ABOVE $1300
Wednesday, November 9, 2010 - GOLD ABOVE $1400
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - GOLD ABOVE $1500

You missed a bit :
Tuesday 6th Sept. GOLD ABOVE $ 1900

Thread: US Stocks Plunge, Dow Falls Over 300 Points As Fears Grip Market

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