Thread: Caution - Elf 'n safety at work!

The three-page health and safety form which is paralysing our police

The questionnaire is only three pages long yet nothing illustrates more effectively how health and safety regulations have blighted the emergency services.

Last week, former Scotland Yard deputy assistant commissioner David Gilbertson wrote about the corrosive effect of the ‘risk avoidance’ culture that now takes precedence over public duty.

As Mr Gilbertson explained, the problem lies with the RA1, the emergency services’ risk-assessment form which is used to identify potential dangers of any operation.

And two episodes this week illustrate his point.

At the inquest into the 7/7 London bombings, in which 52 people died, firefighters were forced to defend their decision not to enter a Tube tunnel until ‘protocols’ had been observed.

And at another inquest in Kettering, Northants, last Thursday, it was revealed that two men drowned in an icy lake as firefighters stood by, unable to help because they had only ‘basic water awareness training’. The fire services have a version of the RA1 form, as do each of the different police forces.

The Metropolitan Police’s RA1 requires officers to assess a checklist of 238 possible hazards before conducting any sort of planned operational activity, such as security at a football match, or any operation that is spontaneous but requires the intervention of a senior officer, such as a bombing or a riot.


Complex: The first page of the RA1 form

The Mail on Sunday has obtained one of these forms, which is not made available under the Metropolitan Police Freedom of Information Publication Scheme. It is an astonishing document which covers every conceivable eventuality – and more.

The potential hazards are divided into 13 categories including the place in which the operation will take place (Access and Place of Work), the means by which officers will travel to their operation (Transport) and even the threat posed by the required uniforms (Work Equipment).The senior officer must tick the relevant boxes, fill out an inventory of ‘risk activities’ (RA2), calculate levels of risk (RA3) and submit their recommendation (RA4) for the assessment to be confirmed and signed.

According to the RA1 form, potential dangers of ‘uncomfortable seating’, ‘slippery surfaces’, ‘sunburn’ and ‘passive smoking’ must all be considered. One senior police officer, who asked not to be named, said: ‘The thing is they have thought of every possible danger you could ever imagine.

‘With uncomfortable seating, for instance, it might be that an officer is on an operation which will require hours of watching and staying in the same place. With sunburn, if you are policing something like the Notting Hill Carnival for 12 hours it could potentially be a problem.

‘There’s nothing they haven’t thought of so the risk of “fluid injection” or “HIV” – which is very real if you are raiding a drug den – is on the same form as “traffic equipment/cones etc”. It’s the same with equipment, if you haven’t got access to the right transport, officers might have to take their riot gear on the bus with them, which is very heavy and could potentially hurt their back.’



Every department in the police force now has a risk assessment advisor. Every operation has a file opened, every file should have an RA1, two, three and four. The forms must be kept for ten years in case of any legal action.

The unnamed officer added: ‘There is an entire department processing the RA1s. Every one has to be signed off by a commander or chief constable. Technically, if you have got bombs going off you should complete these forms before sending your officers in. However, it’s a grey area. The line would be that you must complete one “wherever practicable”.

‘The difficulty is that it’s a question of judgment. Are you likely to save lives without one of the forms being completed? In a situation like that, you would probably not fill in the form and account for your actions in your subsequent report.

‘For instance, if a bomb goes off in the Tube, you would send in your officers but fill in the form before sending in forensics. But the thing with these forms is that it places the onus on the senior officer to fill it out. And if you don’t, you will have to explain why you haven’t.’

If it is deemed that a senior officer has not done enough to identify potential risks they face legal action. In 2003, then Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir John (now Lord) Stevens and his predecessor Lord Condon faced prosecution for alleged breaches of health and safety rules after two incidents in which officers fell through roofs while pursuing suspected burglars. Both were acquitted.


Revealed: The form paralysing our police | Mail Online

An unfortunate situation. There's a fair argument to protect first responders, but it's equally fair for the public in an emergency not to have the services bogged down a few metres away trying to decide whether they are allowed to get involved.

I suspect this is a ploy to protect administrators by ensuring that whatever the officer in charge does can ultimately be construed as questionable, or even seriously negligent if a scapegoat needs to be sacrificed as a cover for the politicians.


Either way they'd best get their act together, because no matter what happens in the next year or so I care less than a toss for the sensibilities of howling libtards, and it is obligatory upon a certain group of funloving people to ensure that the London Olympics is memorably disrupted.

This is what happens when you let lawyers and bureaucrats run governments. One big effin circle jerk.

^ And insurance companies.

The article from the 'Mail on Sunday' IMO is a wee bit of sensationalism.

Risk assessments, to my knowledge have existed in UK Police Forces for over a decade, and as mentioned in the article are mainly used for event planning and exercises, not restricted, i might add, just to emergency services personnel.

Without this planning many more injuries would have occurred, either to operational staff or members of the public. The Police have a public and moral duty to ensure the safety of all those who may be involved in a planned/unplanned operational incident.

To imply that these forms may require completion prior to any response in the event of an emergency is, i might add, utter nonsense. Where a medium/major incident has been declared, then yes, a senior officer will be in attendence and will coordinate matters. Notes will be taken and recorded for reference later when form filling is necessary.

Yes, safety of personnel and citizens will always be paramount in any incident and i suspect that lessons have also been learnt in USA when those very brave firefighters entered the towers on 9/11.

Awareness is a great asset when dealing with emergencies and without the potential hazards listed in RA i suspect emergency personnel would be putting themselves and the general public at even greater risk.

The West is a joke.

Thank the lord for common sense countries.

Like Thailand.

Town Hall chiefs ban candy floss on sticks

Health and Safety do-gooders at a popular seaside resort have barred traditional candy floss on sticks, because it is considered potentially deadly.

Town Hall chiefs at the Victorian town of Southport, Merseyside, have barred stall-holders from selling the spun sugar treats on wooden sticks, in favour of plastic bags.

In another "health and safety gone mad" bid to wrap the public in cotton wool, bosses at Sefton Council have warned stall holders that children could trip over and fall while eating from the sticks, with potentially devastating consequences.

More here:
Southport Forums - Town Hall chiefs ban candy floss on sticks

But it's fine to dispense the stuff in plastic bags that can be used to suffocate kids.

^^ Things have definitely changed since i was growing in the 50's and 60's when there were no H & S regulations around to discuss the pro's and con's of what went wrong and what can be done to prevent further deaths/injuries?

Convenience can sometimes appear more important than a human life although should an injury or death be sustained by one of our family members then naturally we would wish to know how it could have possibly occurred.

Protective equipment for employees, voluntary workers has long been overdue, working on a construction site in the uk without helmet, boots is no longer permitted, riding a m/cycle without a helmet has not been lawful for over 40 years in the uk.

We may not all agree that some H & S measures are necessary but they have been implemented to prevent/limit injury or even death. Incidentally, i can recall a great deal of resistance from m/cycle riders when compulsory helmet became law.

Citizens in the UK should feel fortunate that they have a government who cares and has implemented legislation. Comparitively, Thailand is a few decades behind, one only has to refer to the road death figures to figure that out.

BTW, i have no connection to H & S in the UK, it merely makes sense to me that governments are trying to protect their own citizens. (it's their job!)

Not much different in Victoria Aust. One must not place ones self in a position of danger without the proper safety equipment. Friend of mine at work got stabbed 6 times in the back, no compensation as he had place himself in danger by going to work.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

That is one thing i wont miss when I retire from this Country.
We went to a hot rod meeting 2 weeks ago and I could not believe what I was seeing , the St Johns ambulance volounteers wearing hard hats and saftey goggles and ear defenders .
It wont be very long before any form of motor sport will be deemed too dangerous to watch , and will only be on the tv .
An example of this allready nearly gone is motorcycle grass track racing we used to love going to this but this year has all but finished and the reason is because of elf and saftey the organisers have to erect 3 yes 3 complete rope and pole circuits around the track , which has to be done by volounteers , so now we have 2 meets per year instead of about 20

I think it is just common sense for the emergency crew to wear safety goggles and ear protection at a race track, cars do blow apart.

Candy Floss. More of that quaint Olde English to decipher. Took me a moment to translate it into Modern American English (Cotton Candy).

BEWARE FALLING ACORNS

October 14th, 2010 | Author: admin


It is an autumnal hazard that mankind has successfully negotiated for millions of years.

Not that you would know from the latest advice from hospital health and safety chiefs who reckon that, after all this time, we need a little help in dealing with the danger of acorns.

As a result signs have been put up around an oak tree warning ‘Caution Please Be Aware Of The Falling Acorns’.

Staff at the Brentwood Community Hospital in Essex erected the sign after a patient stepped on an acorn last year and suffered a slight sprain to her ankle.
Although the patient did not sue, gardeners have also now been ordered to collect fallen acorns in the hospital grounds.

Andrew McGowan, 28, who was visiting a patient yesterday, said: ‘It’s health and safety madness really. You don’t need a sign to warn you about things falling from the tree. It happens at this time of year and you can see acorns on the ground.’

Details emerged days after visitors to a park in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, were warned of falling conkers with a sign that proclaimed: ‘Beware Falling Conkers – Please Proceed with Care.’

The Brentwood hospital yesterday defended the move, citing the slip last year.

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

Citizens in the UK should feel fortunate that they have a government who cares and has implemented legislation

Very little to do with the UK gov caring for us ,its crap that is directed from Brussels its an EU thing

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

are trying to protect their own citizens

eerrrr you think so ? state basic pension £92 per week , think again that costs money so that wont apply ,,, having a bunch of numpties telling you to put a hard hat on every time I get out the cab of my lorry incase a bird shirs on me head dosent ,, driven lorries without any incidents for 30 years the last 7 or so bashed me head a few times getting back in the cab wearing that stupid fukin hat

As long as the health and safety laws don't stop me from going to Pattaya for my three months of the year in paradise it should be fine.

Originally Posted by Ripley

cars do blow apart.

???????????????????/
FFS live for today !
been watchin racing over 50 years never seen it yet

Planes blow apart,,,,,, ok I aint nevre gonna fly again
Alchoholics start with one drink ,,,,,,,,, better not have that first one

Do you buy cotton wool by the bale everyweek ?

I don't know how humanity survived before all the great work the H&S executives are doing for us?

Can't even pick your own strawberries in Herefordshire these days because of poxy Health and Safety. Two farms open in entire county, and their owners own chain saws and cut people's heads off. It's enough to make me want to die. Bastards !

I'm going to Thailand in two weeks so I am going to hang on a while longer and bollocks to the strawberries.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

Originally Posted by Ripley

cars do blow apart.

???????????????????/
FFS live for today !
been watchin racing over 50 years never seen it yet

Planes blow apart,,,,,, ok I aint nevre gonna fly again
Alchoholics start with one drink ,,,,,,,,, better not have that first one

Do you buy cotton wool by the bale everyweek ?

No but I think I would wear safety equip. in the same circumstances.
Actually i use to be involved w racing as well as a long time spectator .. well quite a while ago.. I've seen many nasty occurances regarding blowers especially.

It is reasonable to do so, for govt employess especially so as to protect their safety. They are insured I presume as is the policy.


Problem is with going back and living in tribal rule is we are too populous.

IMO

Until or when there is a cull and people live together by the millions, and a few are irresponsible,( in many, many ways ..) poor governing will persist.

Originally Posted by can123

I'm going to Thailand in two weeks so I am going to hang on a while longer and bollocks to the strawberries

Blimey mate them strawberries ripen off late down there ! ours are all picked and in jam jars now up here,,,,,,,,,,\tiptee favourite jam ,little scarlet delicious

Originally Posted by Bingo wings

As long as the health and safety laws don't stop me from going to Pattaya for my three months of the year in paradise it should be fine.

OK, we fu#$#ng get it! You're going to Pattaya for 3 months. Why are you obsessed with stating this in all your posts? Are you really that pathetic?
Nothing wrong with Patters; but to have to mention it every time???????

Originally Posted by rangmak

Originally Posted by Bingo wings

As long as the health and safety laws don't stop me from going to Pattaya for my three months of the year in paradise it should be fine.

OK, we fu#$#ng get it! You're going to Pattaya for 3 months. Why are you obsessed with stating this in all your posts? Are you really that pathetic?
Nothing wrong with Patters; but to have to mention it every time???????

It's so people mightn't associate him with his real nik.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

Citizens in the UK should feel fortunate that they have a government who cares and has implemented legislation

Very little to do with the UK gov caring for us ,its crap that is directed from Brussels its an EU thing

The Health & Safety at Work (UK) Act was implemented in 1974 and much has been improved to prevent lost lives in the workplace since. It would be wrong to suggest that the EU is dictating UK legislation when the UK government itself is involved in discussions concerning H & S issues with other EU members.

The UK figures speak for themselves:

Between 1974 and 2007, the number of fatal injuries in the workplace fell by 73%

Between 1974 and 2007 the number of injuries per 100,000 of employees fell by a staggering 76% and Britain had the lowest rate of injuries in the EU in 2003 which is the most recent set of figures available.

Not much point in saying that the regulations are crap.