^^ Pork Pies.
^^ Pork Pies.
^^Wot ya sayin man.
After my years with the SAS, they thought I could be of some service before I retired in Pattaya.
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^ You never said you were ex SAS. Sorry. Please don't hunt me down and eat my kids.
I assume you retired to Soi boy in Pattaya ?Originally Posted by Smug Farang Bore
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...ard bastards us man, you'll find me in Soi 8, the one with the tatts.
..and thats not a beer gut, its where I keep my pack..
Right.
....if not then On Nut beer garden....6 oclock.
MI6 worker found at London flat 'had been dead weeks'
Gareth Williams' body was discovered in a holdall in the flat in Pimlico
An MI6 worker whose body was found in a holdall in his central London flat may have been murdered two weeks ago, police believe.
The bag was discovered in the bath at the top-floor flat in Alderney Street, Pimlico, on Monday afternoon.
The man has been named by relatives as Gareth Williams, from Anglesey.
Police broke into his home after work colleagues said he had not been seen for at least 10 days. It is not known if his death was linked to his work.
Officers discovered a mobile phone and several mobile phone SIM cards laid out at the flat.
BBC News correspondent Jon Brain said Mr Williams worked at the headquarters of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) about half a mile from the flat in Vauxhall Cross.
He said it was not known what job he was doing there and that his death was not necessarily connected to it.
'Very talented'
Mr Williams' uncle, William Hughes, told BBC News: "It was terrible when I got the phone call yesterday morning.
"Just didn't know what to believe really."
Asked about Mr Williams' career, his uncle called his nephew "very, very talented in his work".
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He added: "We don't know what he was doing - never spoke about it."
The police are understood to be looking into details of Mr Williams's personal life.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said a post-mortem examination would take place later to determine the cause and time of death.
He said investigators were following up "several lines of inquiry" but declined to confirm the victim's occupation.
Rob Mills, 35, who lives two doors away, said the discovery was "shocking".
"I'm told the man lived at the top-floor flat but we haven't ever seen him," Mr Mills said.
"It's not like you'd tell your neighbours if you were a spy."
Another resident said the neighbourhood was a "very mixed area of bankers and politicians".
A spokesman for the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which is handling press inquiries for MI6, said: "This is a police matter.
"It is long-standing Her Majesty's Government policy not to confirm or deny any individual working for the intelligence agencies."
'
A murdered British spy whose body was found stuffed into a sports bag at his London flat might have been killed by a jealous lover, police believe.
By Gordon Rayner, John Bingham and Richard Edwards
Published: 8:26PM BST 25 Aug 2010
Gareth Williams, 31, had been working for MI6 on a one-year posting but was due to return to his regular job at the GCHQ listening station in Cheltenham at the start of next month.
Detectives believe Mr Williams, whose body lay undiscovered for up to two weeks in the bathroom of his top floor flat, might have had a violent row with a lover over his decision to return to Gloucestershire.
However, police have not ruled out the possibility that the murder could be linked to his secret intelligence work.
Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, was given updates on the investigation as part of a scheduled intelligence briefing yesterday.
Officers were yesterday examining Mr Williams’s mobile phone, which was found with several sim cards neatly laid out beside it, to find out his last contacts and when they were made. They were also studying CCTV images from cameras near the Georgian townhouse where Mr Williams had lived alone for the past year.
There was no sign of forced entry at the flat in Pimlico, central London, suggesting the killer was someone Mr Williams knew. Nothing had been stolen.
Scotland Yard said last night that a post mortem was inconclusive in establishing a cause of death and further examination, including toxicology tests, would be required.
Sources played down reports that Mr Williams was stabbed. Detectives are studying whether he was strangled, asphyxiated or drugged.
A source said: “Inquiries are focusing on his lifestyle and we are still trying to piece together his final movements.”
Mr Williams’s parents, Ellen and Ian, from Valley, Anglesey, flew back to Britain from a foreign holiday to identify their son’s body after being told of his death on Monday.
The spy’s uncle, William Hughes, said: “It was a terrible shock when we had the phone call. I couldn’t believe such a thing could happen.”
Mr Hughes said the family had been given no clues as to the motive for the murder, adding that Mr Williams was “quiet and unassuming” and never talked about his job. “He would never talk about his work and the family knew not to ask,” he said.
Mr Williams was a maths graduate who began a masters in advanced mathematics at St Catherine’s College, Cam bridge, in 2000, but failed an exam the following year and left the course. He immediately began working at Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ, in Cheltenham, where he rented a room for nine years from Jennifer Elliott, 71. Mrs Elliott said: “I spoke to him three weeks ago, he rang me to say he was coming back on Sept 3. I don’t think he was very happy in London, he told me he missed the countryside.”
Mrs Elliott said Mr Williams, a cycling enthusiast, lived quietly in his self-contained flat, “didn’t have any friends as such” and had never had a girlfriend in the time he lived there. “He was an extremely intelligent person but would not talk about his job as it was a secret. All he told me was it was something to do with codes.
“Occasionally you could hear tapes whirring from his flat, which must have been audio cassettes he used for work, but he never told me what they were.”
Security sources refused to be drawn on why it took so long for Mr Williams to be reported missing, but it is thought he was taking annual leave before returning to his old job. Mr Hughes described his nephew as a “brilliant” man, adding: “The family knew this from a very, very young age. He was a very clever lad. When he was at secondary school he would go to university one day a week.” Murdered British spy 'may have been killed by jealous lover' - Telegraph
Police probe private life of MI6 spy found in bag after 'sex game went wrong'
27.08.10
The private life of a British code breaker found dead in his flat is being investigated amid speculation that he could have died during a sex game gone wrong.
Detectives investigating the murder of Gareth Williams are looking into the possibility that he lived a double life and may have known his killer.
A report in The Times today claims that bondage gear and equipment associated with sado-masochism were removed from the 30-year-old's London apartment by police looking for clues.
The GCHQ mathematics prodigy's decomposing body was found stuffed into a bag in the bath of his central London Government flat on Monday.
But the mystery over his final hours deepened after a post-mortem examination failed to identify a cause of death.
Further tests will determine if the cycling fanatic was asphyxiated or poisoned, as well as if drugs or alcohol were present in his system.
A pathologist found Mr Williams was not stabbed or shot and there were no obvious signs of strangulation.
Police refused to categorise the death as a murder, despite the bizarre circumstances, as they insist he may have died innocently.
One line of inquiry is that he is the victim of a sex game that went wrong and questions remain over why he was not discovered sooner.
Mr Williams was days from completing a one-year secondment to the headquarters of MI6 from his job at national "listening post" GCHQ in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.
Police believe Mr Williams's body could have lain undiscovered for up to a fortnight and it is thought he was on holiday at the time of his death.
They suspect the key to the case could lie in his private life and are examining his mobile phone and financial records as well as CCTV cameras around his home.
Sources played down speculation that the murder was linked to his secretive line of work.
Investigators suspect Mr Williams might have known his killer as there was no sign of forced entry at his top-floor flat in smart Alderney Street, Pimlico.
Yesterday, Mr Williams's parents Ian and Ellen travelled to London with his sister Ceri from their home in Anglesey to speak to police and formally identify his body.
Further details of Mr Williams continued to emerge as friends described him as an extremely bright, quiet and determined man.
Childhood friend Dylan Parry, 34, said Mr Williams was academically gifted but socially naive and could be easily led.
He told the London Evening Standard: "He was the kind of person who found it difficult to engage with people on a normal level." Police probe private life of MI6 spy found in bag after 'sex game went wrong' | News
Last edited by crippen; 27-08-2010 at 03:09 PM.
A couple of theories have arisen as to the cause of death and the suspects
From Sky News The dead MI6 Agent found in a bag in his London flat has been named as Brian Shepherd.
He is thought to have been stabbed and put into a hot bath first.
Police are treating it as a boil in the bag Shepherd Spy
and this one
In a twist to the Brian Shepherd murder, two communist spys have been arrested in separate incidents, and charged with the murder. One, known as Mr. Ear, still maintains his innocence, and claims to have been 'set up' by the police, whilst the other, Mr. Rudolph (from Moscow) denies any connection with the other Soviet.
A press release from Scotland Yard reads "Rudolph the Red knows framed Ear".
Class.Originally Posted by toslti
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The holdall containing the body of murdered MI6 spy Gareth Williams was padlocked shut, an inquest into his death heard today.
Police found the 31-year-old dead at his Pimlico flat last month after he failed to turn up for work, a court was told. Officers have been treating his death as “unexplained” with further tests being carried out to establish exactly how he died.
But new details about the discovery of Mr Williams, who was on secondment to MI6 from GCHQ, emerged as the inquest opened at Westminster coroner's court.
The confirmation that the holdall containing his body was padlocked shut effectively rules out the possibility that Mr Williams killed himself.
Detective Chief Inspector Jacqueline Sebire of the Homicide and Serious Crime Command, who is leading the investigation, was called to give evidence at the short hearing this morning. She confirmed details put to her by Coroner Dr Paul Knapman, who referred to Mr Williams as “a civil servant”.
Dr Knapman said: “I have a brief resumé that says on Monday August 23 police were called to check on the welfare of Gareth Williams at his home address because he had not been seen at work.
“At about 6.30 that evening police entered the premises. They found a large holdall in the bath of the large en-suite bathroom of the main
bedroom.
“The holdall was padlocked shut and inside was a lifeless body, and it appeared the body was in an advanced state of decay. Murdered spy’s body was padlocked inside a holdall | News
''The confirmation that the holdall containing his body was padlocked shut effectively rules out the possibility that Mr Williams killed himself.''
No shit, Sherlock??
The Met need a familiarisation visit to Pattaya... A clear case of suicide
^ Obviously! The deceased went to a great deal of trouble to fabricate a secret flap where he could snap the lock shut shortly before expiring.
Pattaya plod would have realised this and immediatley confirmed this was just another suicide!
Sounds allmost as ludricous as an ageing Kung Fu star found hanging in the closet of a Thep hotel ..
Must uv been the Nana, I see loads of people hanging around there 2-3 AM![]()
Detectives believes dead MI6 spy may have zipped HIMSELF in bag in bizarre sex game that went wrong
By SIMON WALTERS and GLEN OWEN
Last updated at 1:44 AM on 12th September 2010
WPC climbed into bag to show how he may have died
Tragic: Gareth Williams is believed to have died after a sex game went wrong
Police believe the MI6 spy found dead in a sports bag in a bath inside his flat may have died after a bizarre sex game went wrong, according to well-placed sources.
The Mail on Sunday has learned that a woman police officer climbed into the holdall in which codebreaker Gareth Williams’ naked body was found, re-enacting the events which it is thought could have led to his death.
She managed to zip up the bag and padlock it from the inside, leading investigators to conclude that Mr Williams may have done the same for sexual kicks and suffocated when he could not reopen it.
The theory was bolstered by the fact that a key to the padlock was found alongside his body inside the £150 bag.
Despite being crouched in the holdall, the police officer was able to squeeze her hand through a small gap between the padlock and the zip fastener and lock it from the inside.
Police believe Mr Williams may have gone through the same extraordinary routine, and then passed out, possibly as a result of panic when he was unable to reopen the padlock.
The identity of the officer who undertook the unusual police assignment is not known.
She was chosen partly because her petite size is similar to the slim and short frame of 31-year-old keep-fit fanatic Mr Williams.
His body was found in an extra-large North Face bag, a type which is favoured by explorers because of its 140 litres of storage capacity, durable material, double stitching, twin haul handles and locking zips.
Erotic asphyxiation is defined as the intentional restriction of oxygen to the brain for sexual arousal.
The practice claimed the life of Tory MP Stephen Milligan, whose body was found in 1994 with a bag over his head and an orange in his mouth.
Trapped: Mr Williams body was found in a sports bag . It is only 32 inches long and only slightly taller than a newspaper. Detectives believe he may have suffocated after accidentally locking himself inside
Figures have not been recorded for the number of auto-erotic fatal ities (AEFs) in America, although it is estimated between 500 and 1,000 occur in the US every year.
Although most AEFs arise from the use of a noose to restrict the supply of oxygen, deaths have occurred after victims put themselves into bags.
In one example, a Yale University student died after zipping himself into an airtight vinyl bag and binding his hands.
Police have been mystified since cycling enthusiast Mr Williams was found dead inside his £400,000 two-bedroom flat in Pimlico, half-a-mile from the MI6 HQ in Westminster, three weeks ago.
The initial reaction of the police constable who discovered his body was: ‘This is a murder scene.’
There were also rumours that Mr Williams was the victim of a professional ‘hit’. Other theories included the suggestion that he had been murdered by Russian agents.
Tests on his body were ordered to establish whether he was poisoned, as happened when Polonium 210 radiation was used to murder exiled Russian secret agent Alexander Litvinenko in London in 2006.
Initial toxicology tests showed no traces of alcohol or rec reational drugs in Mr Williams’ system.
Police sources say that the results of more sophisticated tests, carried out to establish the cause of death, might not be known for up to a fortnight.
The MI6 agent’s family have angrily accused the Government of running a ‘dirty tricks’ campaign to blacken his name after reports that he was gay and a cross-dresser.
Police denied claims that gay magazines, bondage gear and the phone numbers of gay escort men were found in the apartment near his body.
Police also dismissed allegations of irregularities in his finances and that a top-secret laptop computer had gone missing from his flat.
Crucially, there was no evidence of violence and no cuts or bruises on Mr Williams’ body, suggesting there had been no struggle.
Crucially, there was no evidence of violence and no cuts or bruises on Mr Williams’ body, suggesting there had been no struggle.
Nor was there any sign of forced entry to his flat, suggesting he either knew his killer and let them in – or there was no killer.
Mr Williams, from Anglesey, North Wales, worked as a cipher and codes expert for the Government’s eavesdropping centre GCHQ in Cheltenham.
He was on a year-long secondment to MI6 which was due to end days after he was found dead.
A child prodigy who had a degree in maths at 17 and went on to obtain a PhD, Mr Williams had the highest security clearance available to an intelligence officer and was part of a secretive ‘cell’ that created devices that can steal data from mobiles and laptops.
He carried out similar work on frequent visits to the National Security Agency in the US.
Mr Williams, who lived on his own and did not have a partner, returned from a ‘planned holiday’ in the US on Wednesday, August 11.
Using his mobile phone to track his last whereabouts, police trawling through CCTV discovered that Mr Williams had made several shopping trips to London’s West End and Knightsbridge on August 14 and 15.
After visiting Harrods, he walked towards a nearby Dolce & Gabbana store, though he did not go in. It is the last time he was seen alive.
Last night a Scotland Yard spokesman said: ‘It would be inappropriate to comment at this stage of the investigation. We are keeping an open mind about the case.’
Read more: Detectives believe GCHQ spy's death sex game went wrong | Mail Online
this is all beyond me . . .
"In one example, a Yale University student died after zipping himself into an airtight vinyl bag and binding his hands."
what did he expect was going to happen?
MI6 SPY Gareth Williams may have died at the hands of a mystery bondage sex partner he met on London's gay scene, detectives suggested.
Investigators said the 31-year-old codebreaker was immersed in the capital's thriving gay nightlife and had repeatedly visited extreme bondage websites though no bondage equipment was found in his flat.
He also had a secret passion for fashion and
hoarded unworn women's designer clothes worth £15,000 in his wardrobe alongside several wigs.
The labels included Stella McCartney, Christopher Kane, and Louboutin and were in their original boxes or wrapping paper. Williams had also enrolled in two fashion design courses at Central Saint Martins College, in Clerkenwell, London, in 2009 and 2010.
Police said it would have been impossible for the dead man to lock himself in the holdall where his naked body was found on August 23. They also revealed forensic evidence indicates other people were in his Pimlico flat who they have been unable to trace.
But police said it is impossible to say whether Mr Williams was already dead when he was put in the bag or died from suffocation once zipped inside.
Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell said the spy's secretive private life probably holds the key to his death and that a "small sub-group of the community" may know something about his final moments but police cannot trace them.
Speaking at New Scotland Yard yesterday, Mr Campbell said: "We are very sure that someone else was in that flat. We want to know the circumstances when you would leave somebody in that position, by accident or design. Maybe, by explaining to the public, someone will think: 'I get it and I can explain."'
Mr Williams, of Anglesey, North Wales, was found by police at his top-floor flat in Alderney Street, Pimlico, on August 23.
Police believe he died in the early hours of Monday August 16 and he was last seen the previous day returning from a shopping trip to Harrods.
His decomposing body was in a large North Face holdall sealed by a travel-style Yale padlock through the zip fasteners. The keys were inside, under his body.
An expert found the temperature inside the waterproof holdall would have risen to 30C within three minutes and Mr Williams would have suffocated within half an hour.
The mathematics prodigy worked as a cipher and codes expert for GCHQ, the Government listening station but had been on secondment to MI6. The death sparked a frenzy of speculation as a battery of post-mortem tests and a huge police inquiry failed to determine how he died.
Detectives revealed the new details of their investigation yesterday as they announced an inquest will examine the case next year.
They said disclosing the "embarrassing, hurtful and distressing" information was necessary to provoke a greater public response.
Det Chief Insp Jackie Sebire, who has led the inquiry, released e-fit images of a Mediterranean couple who were seen visiting Mr Williams' block in late June or early July.
The couple, in their 20s, were buzzed through the communal entrance by another resident and suggested they had been given a key by "Pierre Palo" and were on their way to his flat.
Mr Williams had recently returned from a fly-drive holiday to the West coast of America and may have combined the trip with work at the National Security Agency in Washington DC.
Detectives have quizzed colleagues at GCHQ, MI6 and the NSA who said the dead man was an intensely private individual who kept a low key presence at work social occasions while enjoying cycling and keeping fit in his own time.
Mrs Sebire said police have been unable to trace any sexual partners, male or female, and the only people who had flat keys were Mr Williams and the letting agent. Bondage link to dead spy mystery - Yorkshire Post
The secret double identity of murdered spy: Friend insists Gareth Williams was not gay - and was being trained by MI6 for undercover role
By DANIEL BOFFEY
Last updated at 11:18 PM on 25th December 2010
The spy found dead in a sports bag had been given a new identity by his MI6 bosses in the months leading up to his mysterious death.
Gareth Williams, a GCHQ codebreaker on secondment to MI6, had two passports and told his best friend that he was preparing for an undercover operation.
Details of the 31-year-old’s role within the secret services are disclosed today in an interview with his confidante and childhood sweetheart, Sian Lloyd-Jones.
Double life: MI6 bosses had given Gareth Williams training for a new identity as part of an undercover operation a close friend revealed in an interview with the Mail on Sunday
In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, she said: ‘I find it difficult to see anything in his personal life which could lie behind this.’
She reveals:
He was training to take on a new identity eight months before he was found dead.
He often purchased designer women’s clothes, but she insists they were gifts for her and his sister.
The maths genius was found dead two days before he was due to visit Paris with his sister.
The revelations shed new light on Mr Williams’s work which, until now, had been regarded as highly technical and carrying little risk.
His body was found inside a zipped and padlocked North Face holdall in the bathroom of his
MI6 flat on August 23. A post-mortem was inconclusive.
Last week police released e-fits of a couple they wish to question and provided intimate details about Mr Williams’s life, including his interest in bondage websites and his extraordinary collection of women’s designer clothes and shoes, worth about £15,000.
But Ms Lloyd-Jones, 33, claims Mr Williams would have confided in her and his sister, Ceri, if he had any homosexual urges. Ms Lloyd-Jones, a fashion stylist, said: ‘I’m not in denial and nor is his mum, dad or sister. It would have been fine if he was [gay].
‘I have seen every item of clothing that was there. I truly believe that Ceri and I were going to receive the clothing. He was so generous you wouldn’t believe.’
She finds it difficult to see anything in his private life which could have led to his killing.
But she reveals his work was more complex than previously believed.
‘He said he was learning his new identity,’ she said. ‘In February he said he’d be unavailable for nine days because he was on a training exercise. He’d often go away, so I didn’t think any more about it.’
Ms Lloyd-Jones added that she last heard from Mr Williams on the day he was last seen alive when he was ‘happy and warm and the same as he always was’.
But it was Mr Williams’s sister – who was due to accompany him on a trip to Paris later that week – who alerted her that something may be wrong when she couldn’t get hold of him on the phone. She said that was when she became worried ‘because he’s like clockwork, he’s so predictable’.
There's no mystery about those women's clothes. He bought them for me and his sister
Memories: Sian Lloyd-Jones spent many happy hours with Gareth Williams during his childhood and cannot believe that the rumours surrounding his private life are true
To Sian Lloyd-Jones, it was just another ordinary evening. A fashion stylist, she was pottering around the sitting room of her Knightsbridge flat organising outfits for the following day’s photoshoot.
Meanwhile her friend, Gareth Williams, was sitting on the sofa leafing through the contents of a black box file. Inside there were documents and notes and two passports.
‘He said he was learning his new identity,’ says Sian now. ‘It was all so relaxed. I was taping up shoes and co-ordinating outfits and he was going through his papers.
‘He often came round with his work. That night he came over with his box file and started going through it. He had two passports. He probably fell asleep on the sofa that night and stayed overnight with all the documents.’
At the time, Sian thought nothing of it. Nor did she think it significant when Gareth said he’d be ‘unavailable’ for nine days the following month as he would be away on a training exercise.
Sian knew her friend was a spy and that his job would often take him away for weeks at a time. She also knew there was a necessary element of secrecy to his life. What she couldn’t know was that eight months later, Gareth would be found dead, and in the most horrific circumstances.
It was on August 23 that police were called to Gareth’s flat in Pimlico, Central London, an MI6-owned safe house. He had been missing for more than a week. They found his decomposed body locked in a large red North Face sports bag.
In the months since, his friends and family have not only had to try to come to terms with their loss, they have had to endure a stream of unsavoury leaks from mysterious sources.
It was rumoured that Gareth, 31, was gay after bondage equipment was allegedly found in his apartment along with phone numbers for gay escorts. This was denied by the police, but by then the damage had already been done. Then there were reported irregularities in his finances, also denied.
And last week there were further lurid allegations after police said they wanted to question
a Mediterranean couple who were seen calling at Gareth’s flat before he died. But as well as releasing e-fits of the unknown man and woman, they revealed that Gareth had bought £15,000 of designer clothes and shoes, including labels such as Stella McCartney and Christian Louboutin. They were all stored unopened in their bags and boxes alongside a number of women’s wigs.
Police disclosed that Gareth had visited five bondage websites, which were not pornographic but would give readers advice on how to get in and out of confined spaces. They also said they had found tickets for a number of drag shows.
Gareth devoted his life to serving his country. He was already acknowledged as a talented codebreaker and had worked for the Government listening post GCHQ for ten years before being seconded for a year to MI6. Now, it appears he was rather more than that and was involved in the type of tradecraft more commonly found in a John le Carre novel. There is even a plaque to him at GCHQ in Cheltenham in honour of his work.
Read more: MI6 spy Gareth Williams had a secret double identity and was not gay friend insists | Mail Online
As I read it, he was a straight guy being trained to be gay so he can go undercover. Now that is what you call a 'load of bollix'. Do anyone really think it's plausible ?
^I said it was a gay lover thing in post #6; still think that's what it was.
"pupa"Originally Posted by Butterfly
Everyone here looks to you for expert information re queers etc. so absolutely no use asking the rest of us!
"fred" you must tell us more....or are you saying that DK was a queer orrrrrrr that the WMD were a figment of George and Tony's immagination?Originally Posted by mr Fred
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