Thread: The universe 'will expand forever', new Nasa study on 'dark energy' concludes

The universe will continue to expand forever, Nasa scientists concluded in a new study that sheds light on one of the greatest astronomical puzzles, “dark energy”.

By Andrew Hough
Published: 11:45PM BST 19 Aug 2010

51 Comments


The massive gravitational force of the dark matter (shown in blue) in giant galaxy cluster Abell 1689 bends the light from distant background galaxies, giving astronomers clues to the nature of dark energy. Photo: NASA/ JPL


Space agency researchers used the Hubble Space Telescope to “narrow in” on what they believe comprises the energy, which pushes our universe apart at ever-increasing speed.

Discovered it in 1998, astronomers have been unable to say what the mysterious force is, except that it is invisible and makes up a “large chunk of our universe”, or 72 per cent of its size.



Almost a quarter, 24 per cent, is thought to be "dark matter", which is also mysterious but easier to study than dark energy because of its “gravitational influence”.
The rest of the universe, a mere four per cent, is made of “the stuff that makes up people, planets, stars and everything made up of atoms”.
By using the huge “galactic magnifying lens” the international team of scientists, led byNasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, concluded the distribution of dark energy would mean the universe would never stop growing.
The study, published in the journal Science on Thursday, also found it would eventually become a dead and cold wasteland.
The scientists used Hubble and European Space Observatory's Very Large Telescope to observe how light from distant stars became distorted around a nearby cluster of galaxies called Abell 1689.
The galaxies, found in the constellation of Virgo, is one of the biggest galactic clusters known to science.
Due to its huge mass, scientists say it “acts as a cosmic magnifying glass”, causing light to bend around it.
"We have to tackle the dark energy problem from all sides," said Prof Eric Jullo, a JPL scientist who led the international study.
"It's important to have several methods, and now we've got a new, very powerful one.
"What I like about our new method is that it's very visual. You can literally see gravitation and dark energy bend the images of the background galaxies into arcs.”
He said the study’s conclusion meant scientists could say for the first time that the expansion of the universe “will continue to accelerate and the universe will expand forever”.
Priya Natarajan, a cosmologist at Yale University, who was part of the team, added: “We can now apply our technique to other gravitational lenses.

The universe 'will expand forever', new Nasa study on 'dark energy' concludes - Telegraph

Where does all the light and matter go that is sucked into black holes?

Going back to the famous Einstein quote, does this also mean that human stupidity will keep expanding forever. Sure seems that way sometimes.

Originally Posted by Bangyai

The universe will continue to expand forever,

Excellent.

Nice to hear some good news for a change.

I wonder if there is any "dark matter" in the "gray matter" between our ears....perhaps we have an internal gravitational lens and that bends our balance mechanism and makes us fall over when we drink to much.......Ive always been looking for an answer like this.....WOW! now I can explain that to my misses!

Originally Posted by Bangyai

will expand forever

into what ?

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by Bangyai

will expand forever

into what ?

Nothing.

It's really quite simple.

nothing last forever, not even the Universe

You Chaps, can't be serious......everyone knows, it's all about black holes in black holes.....

Proved irrefutably, by intellects par exsalonce on ....teakdoor...

.....for those ''serious about science''....

The memorable quote........

What is 'forever'?

If we don't understand the beginning how can we understand the end? And if we continue to see things as only having a start and finish then we will never see the truth. Quote; Jeremia after 2 bottles of wine..

Originally Posted by Jeremia

If we don't understand the beginning how can we understand the end? And if we continue to see things as only having a start and finish then we will never see the truth. Quote; Jeremia after 2 bottles of wine..

There's a new theory of the universe where time can be converted into mass and length - this model works without any big bang. There's also no beginning, and no end.

That's why I prefer it. The whole big bang thing is, frankly, just dumb. Does it make sense? No. So why should we have our best physicists working on "making it work anyway"? A waste of time, and I conclude with an Einstein quote: Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Details here: Model describes universe with no big bang, no beginning, and no end

This new model is not fleshed out in the full, there are many things that don't work. But the same is true for the big bang theory. In any case, until a better model comes along, this one's good to me.

Originally Posted by nikster

Originally Posted by Jeremia

If we don't understand the beginning how can we understand the end? And if we continue to see things as only having a start and finish then we will never see the truth. Quote; Jeremia after 2 bottles of wine..

There's a new theory of the universe where time can be converted into mass and length - this model works without any big bang. There's also no beginning, and no end.

That's why I prefer it. The whole big bang thing is, frankly, just dumb. Does it make sense? No. So why should we have our best physicists working on "making it work anyway"? A waste of time, and I conclude with an Einstein quote: Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Details here: Model describes universe with no big bang, no beginning, and no end

This new model is not fleshed out in the full, there are many things that don't work. But the same is true for the big bang theory. In any case, until a better model comes along, this one's good to me.

I prefer the big bang. Quite aside from the evidence, as far as that can go with current understanding, it provides for a logical beginning and a logical end.

The only alternative that offers a plausible though absurd beginning are the god, or so called intelligent design theories. For starters, consider the intelligence of an infinite power and wisdom stranded in nothingness for an absolute eternity. Not very bright at all. Then suddenly it is struck by first the concept and then the thought to create a universe. And anyway, those thoughts could not have originated without at least a spark of energy, which could not have existed in nothingness.

As to the end, in terms of god theory, a bit implausible that having taken the trouble to create an entire universe, which has to be perfect since otherwise god is imperfect, that there's any point in ending it. Unless the infinite wisdom has second thoughts and decides to restore its previous status of being suspended in emptiness.

So it's the big bang for me, and anyway the big bang theory is a brilliant series.

It bugs me when scientists do this, or maybe it was just shoddy reporting.

Forever and infinite are synonymous, they are one and the same.

We are told that the universe in infinite, having no end. Yet we are also told that the universe is expanding, meaning that for it to be growing it must surely be finite. Or is it possible that something that is infinite is becoming 'more' infinite.

So, does forever mean for all eternity or can forever have an upper limit as infinity does, or may do. So if forever can have an upper limit, then is it really forever.

My brian hurts.

One problem is that theories can be weaved to support almost anything. One fact we know, is that the universe is expanding, so it continues expanding forever or will slow down, stop, and start contracting. Or, it could slow down and stop and stay like that forever.

Last year it was ever expanding and contracting. This means either that ours is not the first universe, or it's the first of what will be an infinite number of universes.

That's difficult enough to cope with. It also gives no guarantee that all universes expand the same way or distance before contracting, but a wild guess is good enough. The bit I like is an outer limit, because simply removing an infinite nothingness from the equation makes it somehow seem less daunting.

If the universe is only expanding, it means as TMCool says, it's expanding into nothing, in all directions at the same time, so there must be infinite space beyond it's borders to accommodate the expansion. Where does the universe end and nothingness begin?

I prefer the spring theory of expansion/contraction, if only because it removes the concept of infinite nothingness beyond the outer limits of the universe. And let's not forget the nothingness has to contract (against what??) and must also be in sync with the speed of the expanding universe, so that the borders (roughly, to the nearest few million light years) move together.

Pass!

That also leads to.....

What is nothing? How can we define nothing?

A vacuum isn't nothing, it has a name and is a recognisable entity. A vacuum isn't nothing, it is something. Just a something that is empty.

Before the big bang there was nothing, not even time. How is that possible? If there was no time then how could there have been a 'before'? So if there was no before the big bang then.....

I'm going to play football manager now.

I prefer Firesign Theatre's explanation: Everything You Know is Wrong.

Originally Posted by Moonraker

That also leads to.....

What is nothing? How can we define nothing?

A vacuum isn't nothing, it has a name and is a recognisable entity. A vacuum isn't nothing, it is something. Just a something that is empty.

Before the big bang there was nothing, not even time. How is that possible? If there was no time then how could there have been a 'before'? So if there was no before the big bang then.....

Absolutely. I think the entire "big bang" explanation is far too similar to "GOD" creating the universe.

So, what if there newer was a beginning and there will never be an end? How about there being no edges to the universe, it has limitless size? How about our small part of the universe is expanding as other parts are contracting, but in millions of years from now our part will contract as other parts expand?

Time, space, the universe, etc. etc never had a beginning and will never have an end.

If God, created it, or if something exploded, where did god come from? Where did the matter that exploded come from?

Even the concept that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light is on shaky ground now.

My theory is that a giant rabbit named "Harvey" created the universe but since it is invisible and keeps hopping about we will never find it..

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

Originally Posted by Moonraker

That also leads to.....

What is nothing? How can we define nothing?

A vacuum isn't nothing, it has a name and is a recognisable entity. A vacuum isn't nothing, it is something. Just a something that is empty.

Before the big bang there was nothing, not even time. How is that possible? If there was no time then how could there have been a 'before'? So if there was no before the big bang then.....

Absolutely. I think the entire "big bang" explanation is far too similar to "GOD" creating the universe.

So, what if there newer was a beginning and there will never be an end? How about there being no edges to the universe, it has limitless size? How about our small part of the universe is expanding as other parts are contracting, but in millions of years from now our part will contract as other parts expand?

Time, space, the universe, etc. etc never had a beginning and will never have an end.

If God, created it, or if something exploded, where did god come from? Where did the matter that exploded come from?

Even the concept that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light is on shaky ground now.

My theory is that a giant rabbit named "Harvey" created the universe but since it is invisible and keeps hopping about we will never find it..

Not sure about Harvey, But...

A vacuum is not empty, its bussing away at the subatomic level with vacuum fluctuations causing particles to appear bang out of thin air for a short while before disappearing in a puff.

evidence of the existence of black holes.

Let me put it in a nutshell for you.
The black stuff with the pretty lights in the sky you see at night is getting bigger with even more pretty lights every night.
Case solved.

infinity......and beyond.




oxymoron



oxygen




moron






infinity







no end.












g'night.

Originally Posted by Bogon

Originally Posted by Humbert

Where does all the light and matter go that is sucked into black holes?

Are you stupid or what Humbert?
I watched "Aliens" and some bloke explained it.
Basically think of a sheet of A4 paper laying flat on a table. The distance of the most Northern point to the most Southern point of the sheet of paper can be measured in a straight linear movement, but imagine if you picked the paper up and folded it in half? The two points of North and South meet each other, so therefore distance and time is irreleveant. This basically means that all light and matter is sucked to where it was before,where it is going to be or where it is now because time and space doesn't matter due to the "paper folding" bit.
Man. Watch some Star-Trek or Deep Space 9 to educate yourself!

Bloody brilliant explanation and I think you for that... I think?

My brain still hurts!

I'm trying the piece of paper test right now...I have a question?

Do you have to fold it in half or can you just bend it?

Does it have to be A4 size or will A5 be ok?

And which episode of Star Treck explins this clearly?

My brains really huting now......