Thread: US Fed Court to US Govt: Stop Spreading Lies About Marijuana

Originally Posted by Milkman

The Marijuana thread is not about Women and women's issues? Fair enough

Who said it was, and it is actually about the govt spreading lies about POT, but there are many medical reports about the plus and minus about it as well as it's uses in medical treatments and about it's actual effects on health and health issues with it's use.
and all the info can be bent to suit who ever is posting it, if you are a hophead then you will get a different angle than I who have spent some time around heavy pot smokers who have a damaged brain, or at least a deranged thinking process.

Originally Posted by Bugginout

gutterhole

'Gutterhole' A tad harse as my comment was tongue in cheek I have many american friends and we call each other all sorts of crap. I get called all sorts of names and find them funnier everytime... Chill bro' I support your arguments fully, you are an informed fellow.

Originally Posted by blackgang

if you are a hophead then you will get a different angle than I who have spent some time around heavy pot smokers who have a damaged brain, or at least a deranged thinking process.

A Damaged brain!!!! What on earth are you going on about??? Alcohol damages the brain far worse than Pot would ever do...

I have many friends that smoke and have smoked pot for 20+yrs with no ill effects..

Sorry to hear that alcohol has caused you so much pain in your life. Injected was something else that you mentioned, did you dabble in stronger narc's as well in the past then? I have lost so many friends back in the UK to heroin and speed it's just not funny. Even though opiates can be a great pain reliever, abusing drugs of such strong and addictive qualities may lead to an early demise. Sadly.

Originally Posted by Mr R Sole

I have many friends that smoke and have smoked pot for 20+yrs with no ill effects

Alcohol never really caused that much pain in my life, but did in the folks that loved me pobly.
But drugs have caused me more pain that booze ever did.
Dopers are a different anim,al than an alkie, I never did drugs, but did smoke a little pot but damn little and never regular as It is not my drug of choice.
But if you think your friends are normal and uneffected by smoking pot then you must hit it a tad yourself.
here is some stuff to read.

Does Pot Smoking Cause Brain Damage? - Journal Watch Psychiatry
Does Pot Smoking Cause Brain Damage?
A resurgence of marijuana use has intensified debate about the drug's potential harmful effects. This study suggests there are enduring adverse effects on cognitive function.
Using performance and electrophysiologic measures to test processing of auditory stimuli, investigators compared 32 young adults, who had used marijuana an average of 12 days per month for a mean of 6.7 years, with 16 controls who had never used cannabis regularly. The groups were matched for age, sex, and education. Subjects stopped cannabis use 1 to 30 days before testing.
Cannabis users, especially frequent users, had slower information processing and reaction times than controls. They were also less able to reject irrelevant information; this was most true for long-term use (measured in years) but was unrelated to frequency of use (measured in times per week). Although the washout time was brief and cannabis can persist in the body for over two months, urinary metabolite levels were not correlated with any of the deficits.
Comment: Persisting cognitive deficits in frequent or long-term marijuana users may stem from changes in cannabinoid receptors in the hypothalamus and elsewhere. The varying washout times hamper interpretation of this study, since some of the observed deficits may have been residual effects. However, the lack of correlation between the deficits and metabolite levels suggests that the effects persisted after clearance of marijuana from the bloodstream. These findings raise concern about impairment in driving and other psychomotor activities in marijuana users -- even casual users who have not indulged just before the task
ANOTHER SITe

This is the first study to show that smoking marijuana can have a harmful effect on the cognitive skills of people with MS," said study author Anthony Feinstein, MPhil, PhD, of the University of Toronto. "This is important information because a significant minority of people with MS smoke marijuana as a treatment for the disease, even though there are no scientific studies demonstrating that it is an effective treatment for emotional difficulties."

Feinstein noted that MS itself can cause cognitive problems. "In addition, cognitive problems can greatly affect the quality of life for both patients and their caregivers," he said.
For the study, researchers interviewed 140 Canadian people with MS. Of those, 10 people had smoked marijuana within the last month and were defined as current marijuana users. The marijuana users were then each matched by age, sex, the length of time they had MS, and other factors to four people with MS who did not smoke marijuana.
The researchers then evaluated the participants for emotional problems such as depression, anxiety and other psychiatric disorders. They also tested the participants' thinking skills, speed at processing information, and memory.
The study found marijuana smokers performed 50 percent slower on tests of information processing speed compared to MS patients who did not smoke marijuana. There was also a significant association between smoking marijuana and emotional problems such as depression and anxiety.
People with MS have higher rates of depression and suicide compared to the general population. "Since marijuana can induce psychosis and anxiety in healthy people, we felt it was especially important to look at its effects on people with MS," Feinstein said.
This research was published February 13, 2008, in the online edition of Neurology®, the medical journal of the American Academy of Neurology. The study was supported by a grant from the Canadian Institutes for Health Research.
Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction -- As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers
A condition often caused by exposure to toxic chemicals or long-term exposure to tobacco smoke, bullous lung disease (also known as bullae) is a condition where air trapped in the lungs causes obstruction to breathing and eventual destruction of the lungs.
At present, about 10% of young adults and 1% of the adult population smoke marijuana regularly. Researchers find that the mean age of marijuana-smoking patients with lung problems was 41, as opposed to the average age of 65 years for tobacco-smoking patients.
The study "Bullous Lung Disease due to Marijuana" also finds that the bullous lung disease can easily go undetected as patients suffering from the disease may show normal chest X-rays and lung functions. High-resolution CT scans revealed severe asymmetrical, variably sized bullae in the patients studied. However, chest X-rays and lung functions were normal in half of them.
Lead author Dr. Matthew Naughton says, "What is outstanding about this study is the relatively young ages of the lung disease patients, as well as the lack of abnormality on chest X-rays and lung functions in nearly half of the patients we tested."
He added, "Marijuana is inhaled as extremely hot fumes to the peak inspiration and held for as long as possible before slow exhalation. This predisposes to greater damage to the lungs and makes marijuana smokers are more prone to bullous disease as compared to cigarette smokers."
Patients who smoke marijuana inhale more and hold their breath four times longer than cigarette smokers. It is the breathing manoeuvres of marijuana smokers that serve to increase the concentration and pulmonary deposition of inhaled particulate matter – resulting in greater and more rapid lung destruction.
This paper is published in the January 2008 issue of Respirology.

Anyone watched the movie "Refer madness"? It was a US movie about the dangers of smoking pot.

Originally Posted by Mr R Sole

Originally Posted by Bugginout

gutterhole

'Gutterhole' A tad harse as my comment was tongue in cheek I have many american friends and we call each other all sorts of crap. I get called all sorts of names and find them funnier everytime... Chill bro' I support your arguments fully, you are an informed fellow.

I for one think it is kind of cute when a 'vickie sheepfucker employing a characteristically childish bastardization of Cockney rhyming slang refers to my countrymen as "septics."

Originally Posted by Mr R Sole

Injected was something else that you mentioned, did you dabble in stronger narc's as well in the past then? I have lost so many friends back in the UK to heroin and speed it's just not funny. Even though opiates can be a great pain reliever, abusing drugs of such strong and addictive qualities may lead to an early demise. Sadly.

Compared to some hardcore alcoholics I have met, heroin addicts seem to be able to maintain pretty well provided they can score. A smack addict can go cold turkey without risking his life, but sudden cessation of drinking by an alcohol addict can cause death.

Originally Posted by Muadib

^ Yeah, it's a cult classic these days for it's mass misrepresentation of the truth... Sensationalizing the smoking of dope was merely a scare tactic to keep people from smoking it... Just like the gory driver's education films students are made to watch during driver's education classes... The hope was that they would scare the students into being more careful drivers... That didn't work either...

The US is missing out on a huge revenue stream by continuing to suppress the growth and distribution of pot... Grow, package, distribute & TAX the sales just like cigarettes & alcohol... Not to mention the $$$ wasted on trying to put the industry out of business... It's a fvcking stupid argument and I'm curious what the real reasons are for not legalizing pot...

Perhaps.....Because in " The Land of the Free" prison is BIG business and pot offenders provide a nice steady stream of docile offenders who can get out, get jobs again and pay their parole/court/counseling/etc./etc. fees.

Remember; Tax revenues on pot would go to the Govt , prison revenues go to private firms -like the one owned by the BushCo family m-(p?)-atriarch, Babs...

More evidence of how Corporatized Congress is ruining America .

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

As for the topic, more people die from prescription drugs in the US than all other illegal drugs combined. No one, not one single person has ever died from marijuana overdose. There is no nicotine, which is highly addictive. I'm sure the cigarette smokers here will concur. The lamest argument against legalization is that somehow, people who have never smoked weed, never been interested, will suddenly want to smoke it once it is legalized. Airline pilots will be toking in the cockpit, surgeons will be smoking in pre-op, and all the rest of the total bullshit arguments that you can think of. It's easy enough for anyone to buy right now, so those very same people should already be doing it because it's available.

No one is going to come into anyone else's home and force them to smoke weed, and they're certainly not going to come into mine and tell me I can't. This issue is right out of the prohibition days when church-going women with pinched, bitter faces tried to enforce their moral imperatives on the rest of the country. They lost then and they're going to lose now.

Actually the prohibition era got its start from women's groups because domestic violence was so rampant .

It was an epidemic of women getting beat to death. - yet another reason to legalize pot, no one ever got violent on it but I'd bet 90 % of domestic battery has alcohol as a factor .

Women's groups were certainly at the forefront of the US Prohibition movement. It also reflected a strong element of prejudice against Italian and Irish immigrants, both drinking cultures. Similarly, marijuana smoking was associated with Mexican immigrants, while cocaine was considered to turn blacks in crazed rapists of white women.

please....

The below is my quote, the portion above it regarding "...pinched faced, bitter...women .." , is not .


HD " Actually the prohibition era got its start from women's groups because domestic violence was so rampant .

It was an epidemic of women getting beat to death. - yet another reason to legalize pot, no one ever got violent on it but I'd bet 90 % of domestic battery has alcohol as a factor."

Originally Posted by robuzo

A smack addict can go cold turkey without risking his life, but sudden cessation of drinking by an alcohol addict can cause death.

Have you ever been locked in a cell with a smack addict coming off cold turkey with snickers bars as the only thing in the cell except cold coffee, bread and beans, or tracked down with a phone call that one of your sons had been found dead with the needle still in his arm.

As to Horsesass keeps posting the same old saw, but the medical reports are pobly still there that I posted unless milky has went nuts and deleted them because they go again what he and other hopheads say, but the links were posted also.

I do not care what you say, doper/junkies are weird people, a drunk can recover and be normal but not possible for a junkie, I can spot em a mile away.

and no matter what you say about the legal profit from weed as to taxes and other profits, same as with booze,, not there, just wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

As for the topic, more people die from prescription drugs in the US than all other illegal drugs combined. No one, not one single person has ever died from marijuana overdose. There is no nicotine, which is highly addictive. I'm sure the cigarette smokers here will concur. The lamest argument against legalization is that somehow, people who have never smoked weed, never been interested, will suddenly want to smoke it once it is legalized. Airline pilots will be toking in the cockpit, surgeons will be smoking in pre-op, and all the rest of the total bullshit arguments that you can think of. It's easy enough for anyone to buy right now, so those very same people should already be doing it because it's available.

No one is going to come into anyone else's home and force them to smoke weed, and they're certainly not going to come into mine and tell me I can't. This issue is right out of the prohibition days when church-going women with pinched, bitter faces tried to enforce their moral imperatives on the rest of the country. They lost then and they're going to lose now.

Actually the prohibition era got its start from women's groups because domestic violence was so rampant .

It was an epidemic of women getting beat to death. - yet another reason to legalize pot, no one ever got violent on it but I'd bet 90 % of domestic battery has alcohol as a factor .

Women's groups were certainly at the forefront of the US Prohibition movement. It also reflected a strong element of prejudice against Italian and Irish immigrants, both drinking cultures. Similarly, marijuana smoking was associated with Mexican immigrants, while cocaine was considered to turn blacks in crazed rapists of white women.

please....

The below is my quote, the portion above it regarding "...pinched faced, bitter...women .." , is not .


HD " Actually the prohibition era got its start from women's groups because domestic violence was so rampant .

It was an epidemic of women getting beat to death. - yet another reason to legalize pot, no one ever got violent on it but I'd bet 90 % of domestic battery has alcohol as a factor."

Sorry, fucked up the quote/unquote thing. Blaming it on the jet lag and not substance abuse. . .

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

in " The Land of the Free" prison is BIG business and pot offenders provide a nice steady stream of docile offenders who can get out, get jobs again and pay their parole/court/counseling/etc./etc. fees.

Remember; Tax revenues on pot would go to the Govt , prison revenues go to private firms -like the one owned by the BushCo family m-(p?)-atriarch, Babs...

More evidence of how Corporatized Congress is ruining America .

References to the US "prison-industrial complex" are not exaggerated; check out what was unearthed in my home state recently
Pa. tosses juvenile convictions issued by bribed judge - USATODAY.com

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by HorseDoctor

And so is pure propaganda issued by pharmaceutical companies that PROFIT off ill health and spend millions influencing goverments to keep other substances illegal.
And what are the side effects of these wonderful, for profit drugs ?

Well, a well known side effect of those drugs is "retaining your eyesight".

Its always worth remembering that, as far as I am aware, drug companies don't actually CAUSE the diseases they make the drugs to treat.

Also, next time that you think about those "excess profits", its useful to remember two things

1. It can cost up to 400 million US dollars to put a drug through clinical TESTING and
2. there has been a massive winnowing of drug companies over the last decade or so, with amalgamations left right and center as its just too expensive to develop and market drugs nowadays. there used to be dozens of huge drug companies, now very few.

This doesn't convince me that big Parma isn't as corrupt an establishment as ( legally ) possible and does everything it its power to keep drug prices high, ( and pot illegal.)
Here's a thought to give relief to those poor laboring conglomerates - perhaps we should socialize medicine manufacturing like we've done for failed banks and car manufacturers..

I'm forced to wonder? Does anyone else in the general area of contact with a person on any other oral medication physically experience any of the effects (side effects or otherwise) of the drug that person is using? or is that phenomena just limited to Marijuana SMOKING exclusively?? rhetorically speaking of course.
Cigarettes nto withstanding, If I was smoker I could smoke cigs in safe place with other like smokers and not effect them adversely but not every cig smoker is a pot smoker and would likely take offense to being sequestered with one to prevent their second hand smoke from affecting them adversely. As a non smoker of anything I would most certainly be very put off and make my feelings expresly known immediately if I were subjected publicly to anyone smoking pot..

BTW there is a pill form of marijuana for ailments such as severe nausea due to chemo for example, but it lacks the primary ingredient THC that inspires this entire debate due to it's narcotic effects and addictive properties and also seems to lessen the pills effects considerably.

Which ultimately begs the question, is it actually a reliever of symptoms or is it just a cover? and wouldn't any other similarly acting drug provide the same 'relief' such as in the case of glaucoma? I know it also has some inflammatory relieving properties in that case but clearly there must be alternative meds to provide similar relief as mentioned?

as nidhogg says it is as much about dosage regulation as it is about anything else but do not throw out the imposition on the larger public..

Originally Posted by robuzo

A smack addict can go cold turkey without risking his life,

sorry to disagree but this is lacking accuracy. There are numerous physical reactions to withdrawal that can and do cause any number of reasons for death in smack addicts..

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Originally Posted by robuzo

A smack addict can go cold turkey without risking his life,

sorry to disagree but this is lacking accuracy. There are numerous physical reactions to withdrawal that can and do cause any number of reasons for death in smack addicts..

Sorry if that is "lacking accuracy"; here is what the assholes at the DEA have to say, hope you find it less lacking:

DEA, Drug Information, Heroin
Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is occasionally fatal, although heroin withdrawal is considered less dangerous than alcohol or barbiturate withdrawal.(9)

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Does anyone else in the general area of contact with a person on any other oral medication physically experience any of the effects (side effects or otherwise) of the drug that person is using? or is that phenomena just limited to Marijuana SMOKING exclusively?? rhetorically speaking of course.
Cigarettes nto withstanding, If I was smoker I could smoke cigs in safe place with other like smokers and not effect them adversely but not every cig smoker is a pot smoker and would likely take offense to being sequestered with one to prevent their second hand smoke from affecting them adversely.

Are you suggesting that pot smokers will be hitting bongs in designated smoking areas if pot is legalized or decriminalized? Are you seriously worried about that?

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

[blah, blah, blah]. . .the primary ingredient THC that inspires this entire debate due to it's narcotic effects and addictive properties

Marijuana is not a narcotic and it isn't physically addictive. People can form a dependency on it; people form dependencies on all kinds of things, from TV shows to go-go bars. Also, unlike just about any other drug one can name, including nicotine and tobacco, there is no known lethal dose (I'm sure someone will bring up LSD. . .)

The problem as I see it with weed is that if it is fully legalized it will be very difficult to prevent commercialization (upon which taxation schemes would necessarily depend), and that would lead to a whole host of problems, obviously, including the encouragement of marijuana use through commercials and PR. At the same time, I don't see why people can't be allowed to grow pot and give it away if they so desire. The taxation angle would be sacrificed, but the savings in prosecution and incarceration costs, plus (more importantly) preventing the irreparable damage to personal lives caused by arrest, fines, incarceration and criminal records would represent an important gain.

The criminalization of drugs, or more accurately, drug takers, purportedly due to a health risk (in the case of pot, a minimal health risk) does little but create a new criminal class where none would have existed, and a black market to be exploited by criminal gangs. This was true for alcohol prohibition in the States, and it is true for drug prohibition today. The "war on drugs" really could be more accurately named the "war on your neighbor".

Originally Posted by horsesass

Remember; Tax revenues on pot would go to the Govt , prison revenues go to private firms -like the one owned by the BushCo family m-(p?)-atriarch, Babs... More evidence of how Corporatized Congress is ruining America .

Wrong, some are private companys in the catering security business most are state run by state commissions.
Just because some women are TOMS it is not true that all are.
Just because some Thai dig around in their snout does not men that all do.

Originally Posted by robuzo

DEA, Drug Information, Heroin Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is occasionally fatal, although heroin withdrawal is considered less dangerous than alcohol or barbiturate withdrawal.(9)

This is very true,, different effects on the system as Alcohol is a different addiction that drugs.
Alcohol is not an addiction as is Heroin or Nicotine.
When a system is getting a regular supply of alcohol and does not get any then that system is libeled to crash and death follow.
But with drug addiction there is no such system attached and it is not a danger because no system has been Dependant on it for operation.
and since alcohol is not addictive, as soon as it is out of the system then there is no more physical craving, but there can be a mental craving or a need to escape from reality, so at that time there needs to be an adjustments of attitudes.
Or you will have a drink and then it is back to a physical as well as a mental craving and you will continue to drink.

But drugs are addictive, and heroin and Nicotine are the same addiction and no matter which, you will carry that addiction for the better part of 10 years to be free of it.

very hard to explain unless you have experienced it and so as I am an alcoholic as well as a nicotine addict I have been in both worlds and I know that 3 days in detox were enough to stop my need for alcohol, but I had to convince my mind that it was cool to be sober, which i did by attending AA meetings.
But about 16 months ago I quit smoking and I have wanted to light one up every second of every day since I quit, but I will not do it, but the craving is still there.
My oldest son was a heroin addict and he had helped lots of folks get clean and he tried and could stay off for periods of time but would always go back, same as some drunks do, same as some smokers do, but I quit booze damn near 28 years ago and I have not had a drink in that time and I will not smoke again in this life time, but my son could not stay clean so whether he did it on purpose or a hot shot was sold to him, but his last shot killed him.

Originally Posted by robuzo

Are you suggesting that pot smokers will be hitting bongs in designated smoking areas if pot is legalized or decriminalized? Are you seriously worried about that?

are you suggesting they won't?? why wouldn't they? Cigarette smokers already happily trounce over other peoples rights to clean air without laws to prevent them from doing so.. What would make pot smokers so special as not to do such a thing?

Originally Posted by robuzo

Marijuana is not a narcotic and it isn't physically addictive

so why is THC removed from any form of prescription based medication then? because the drug companies certainly wouldn't want it to be addictive and take too many or overdose??

Originally Posted by robuzo

At the same time, I don't see why people can't be allowed to grow pot and give it away if they so desire.

and that is the primary slippery slope factor here...you can't just produce any pharmaceutical without proper controls and protections in place in any civil society..

Originally Posted by robuzo

preventing the irreparable damage to personal lives caused by arrest, fines, incarceration and criminal records would represent an important gain.

I guess the victims of their addiction and abuse don't count in those numbers eh? how astoundingly blinkered..

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

I guess the victims of their addiction and abuse don't count in those numbers eh? how astoundingly blinkered..

"Victims" in what sense? How astonishingly muddled is your thinking. Are you on something?

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

I guess the victims of their addiction and abuse don't count in those numbers eh? how astoundingly blinkered..

"Victims" in what sense? How astonishingly muddled is your thinking. Are you on something?

of course you'd think that since I don't share your freebase perspective...

The word requires no further definition, save for those in eternal denial, it is relative to those who fall victim to people under the influence at the time in any related trauma such as running red lights while operating a commuter train and harming others or putting family in unnecessary stresses walking on the wrong side of the law due to an inability to avoid ones compulsion to get "high" in spite of it's illegality.. That is clearly an addiction in every description of the word.

or is it the sense of rebellion and need for that potential adventure and risk in buying it knowing it's illegal? could be, maybe that's the crux of the issue... a teenage rebellion against authority and daddy's rules..

Originally Posted by robuzo

Are you on something?

funny you should ask this since you claim it has no detrimental effect or impairment on anyone's judgment or personal ability to perform contrary to how one performs under the influence..

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

[blah, blah, blah]. . .the primary ingredient THC that inspires this entire debate due to it's narcotic effects and addictive properties

There you go talking out of your ass again... Unless you have a linkie for a reputable source stating this as fact...

^ Isn't that exactly what he said ? That is can be fatal.
Anyway, there are scores of studies about the health dangers of smoking pot.
The reason why you're more likely to have lung cancer than a regular smoker is because a: many mix it with tobacco and b: don't use a filter.
Blackgang is certainly correct about not taking the effects of pot on the light shoulder. Switzerland has a higher consumption of marijuana than the Netherlands, despite it not being (officially) legal. There is a strong correlation between smoking marijuana and mental diseases confirmed in many studies and gov. statistics.
We're not talking about some US college students who smoke pot at a party, but about regular consumers. I personally knew lots of young people who'd need their pot instead of a breakfast, every morning. Marijuana is highly addictive, if you only occasionally smoke it you'll be fine, but as soon as it gets customary you'll fucked. I don't need people to tell me they smoke pot, I see it immediately, even if they're not stoned at that moment.
And for the romantic hippies out there who think Marijuana makes people peaceful:
BBC NEWS | Americas | Jamaica struggles to fight crime
Comparative Criminology | North America - Jamaica
huge crime rate, rapes etc.. And the main offenders are rastafarians... so much about that. They call for a gay genocide and are generally retarded and aggressive whenever they're not too high for it.

here's a few pics from Nimbin mardis grass to cheer you all up.





Wonder what these cops think of it all.


HMMMM, wanna get high baby?