Thread: Airline News

Originally Posted by Troy

backdrive the throttles.

Wasn't that before it carried paying passengers

No, I wasn't referring to A400m; accident had nothing to do with reverse thrust and turbo prop reverses blade pitch so totally different design.

I was referring to A320 series aircraft having to redesign for multiple failures due to non mechanical link between throttles and engine. I also thought the throttle position had to be back driven to show current engine input demand. I thought original fadec didn't have that backdrive but I don't see a mention of that in the report.

Originally Posted by Troy

No, I wasn't referring to A400m; accident had nothing to do with reverse thrust and turbo prop reverses blade pitch so totally different design.

I was referring to A320 series aircraft having to redesign for multiple failures due to non mechanical link between throttles and engine. I also thought the throttle position had to be back driven to show current engine input demand. I thought original fadec didn't have that backdrive but I don't see a mention of that in the report.

You said:

Airbus also had to redesign their aircraft following the fadec problem

Do you have a link?

^ No, not to the original modifications made following the Lauda Air accident, although the following alludes to them in the first paragraph:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/t...deployment.pdf

At the time of the Lauda accident (ie back in the early 90's) there was a lot of talk about the different philosophy between Airbus and Boeing regards cockpit throttles and engine input. Boeing opted to drive throttles to show engine demand and allow the pilot to override the throttle position vi a clutch mechanism. This means that if the engine goes into reverse thrust the throttle will backdrive to idle. On an Airbus there is no such backdrive. The different philosophy means that with Boeing the pilot has overall control and with Airbus the aircraft has that control.

I thought (wrongly) that Airbus changed to backdriving the throttle to give pilots indication of actual engine position. They did not, instead they added additional safety features to ensure reverse thrust in flight cannot occur. As you can see from the above link, this safety was not enough.

Personally I always preferred the Boeing philosophy.

Originally Posted by Troy

^ No, not to the original modifications made following the Lauda Air accident, although the following alludes to them in the first paragraph:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/t...deployment.pdf

At the time of the Lauda accident (ie back in the early 90's) there was a lot of talk about the different philosophy between Airbus and Boeing regards cockpit throttles and engine input. Boeing opted to drive throttles to show engine demand and allow the pilot to override the throttle position vi a clutch mechanism. This means that if the engine goes into reverse thrust the throttle will backdrive to idle. On an Airbus there is no such backdrive. The different philosophy means that with Boeing the pilot has overall control and with Airbus the aircraft has that control.

I thought (wrongly) that Airbus changed to backdriving the throttle to give pilots indication of actual engine position. They did not, instead they added additional safety features to ensure reverse thrust in flight cannot occur. As you can see from the above link, this safety was not enough.

Personally I always preferred the Boeing philosophy.

The point of my link was that Boeing, as with the MAX, have too much authority to just tell the FAA everything is going to be fine, and the FAA does fuck all to check.

That has to stop.

Boeing should not have the authority to do its own testing and come up with its own results. it has proven that it can't be trusted.

Emirates head cautious on quick return to service for Boeing 737 MAX

"SEOUL (Reuters) - Emirates airline President Tim Clark said on Sunday that global regulators should act in a coordinated way to return the Boeing 737 MAX to service and warned it could take six months to get the grounded jet back into operation.


The forecast from the head of Emirates, whose sister airline flydubai is a major MAX customer, is more cautious than some industry predictions but echoes concerns at a global airlines meeting in Seoul about a piecemeal response by regulators."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...KCN1T301Z?il=0

Not much point in "getting them into the air" if you can't land them anywhere.

Airbus urges airlines to pressure Boeing over subsidy row

"SEOUL (Reuters) - Airbus has written to airline leaders to appeal for their backing in a trade dispute with rival Boeing, warning of higher aircraft prices and passenger fares if the United States and European Union descend into a tariff war.
The appeal was issued in a letter to several airline bosses meeting in Seoul where the International Air Transport Association (IATA) has warned of the impact of broader global trade tensions, a person familiar with the issuance of the letter told Reuters.

The United States and Europe have been locked in a 15-year spat over mutual claims of illegal aid to plane giants.
U.S. President Donald Trump threatened last month to impose tariffs on $11 billion of European goods including planes and their parts, prompting the European Union to propose a list of $20 billion worth of U.S. imports it could hit in retaliation.

"If the tariffs are applied, the effects would include greatly increased costs to U.S. and European airlines, aerospace suppliers and manufacturers," Airbus sales chief Christian Scherer said in the text of the letter seen by Reuters.
It asked airlines to "urge Boeing to enter into the negotiations proposed by the EU and Airbus".
Airbus and Boeing had no immediate comment.
It is the first time either company has sought to directly involve the airline industry in the dispute, which is the largest ever handled by the World Trade Organization. U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines has said it opposes the U.S. tariff threats, saying they harm U.S. interests.

Speaking to reporters in Seoul, Delta CEO Ed Bastian said: "We're a large Boeing customer, we're a large Airbus customer. Tariffs ... would inflate the cost of investment in the aircraft, obviously we're going to be concerned."
Delegates at the IATA talks said airlines would weigh carefully whether to step directly into the aircraft dispute which has laid bare intense competition for plane orders and which has cost the warring parties tens of millions of dollars.

But IATA, which groups 290 airlines representing 82 percent of global traffic, is expected to express growing concerns about a worsening pattern of global trade tensions which has already depressed cargo business and threatens some passenger demand."

https://news.yahoo.com/airbus-urges-airlines-pressure-boeing-004220876.html


Global airlines slash profit forecast 21% on protectionism fears


"SEOUL: Global airlines slashed a key industry profit forecast by 21% on Sunday amid concerns over an expanding trade war and higher oil prices.

The International Air Transport Association, which represents about 290 carriers or more than 80% of global air traffic, said the industry is expected to post a US$28 billion profit in 2019, down from a December forecast of US$35.5 billion.

“Airlines will still turn a profit this year, but there is no easy money to be made,” IATA Director General Alexandre de Juniac said at the group’s annual meeting in Seoul. “Creeping protectionist or isolationist political agendas are on the rise,” he added.

Airline profits help detect trends for consumer confidence and global trade, economists say.

Global stock markets fell on Friday after US President Donald Trump on Friday threatened tariffs on Mexican goods, adding to fears that escalating trade wars will push the US and other major economies into recession.

Airlines had reported US$30 billion in annual profits in 2018, but conditions in the air cargo market – an extra source of revenue for carriers – have weakened substantially.

“You see that international trade is now at a zero growth rate, so there is an immediate impact on our cargo business,” de Juniac told Reuters TV.

IATA voiced concerns that trade tensions that have forced several carriers to ground air freighters could spill into the passenger market.
Passenger capacity growth, which reached 6.9 percent in 2019, is forecast to slow to 4.7% this year, with average fares flat following a 2.1% decline in 2018."

https://asianewstoday.com/blog/globa...tionism-fears/

Boeing delayed fix of defective 737 MAX warning light for three years: U.S. lawmakers

"SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co learned that a cockpit warning light on its 737 MAX jetliner was defective in 2017 but decided to defer fixing it until 2020, U.S. lawmakers said on Friday
.
The defective warning light alerts pilots when two sensors that measure the angle between the airflow and the wing disagree. Faulty “angle of attack” data is suspected of playing a role in two deadly crashes involving Boeing’s best-selling 737 MAX in Indonesia in October and in Ethiopia in March.


Those crashes, which killed 346 people, have triggered investigations by aviation regulators and U.S. lawmakers and left Chicago-based Boeing facing one of the biggest crises in its more than 100-year history.


Boeing decided in November 2017 to defer a software update to correct the so-called AOA Disagree alert defect until 2020, three years after discovering the flaw, U.S. Congressmen Peter DeFazio and Rick Larsen said in a press release on Friday. Boeing only accelerated this schedule after the Lion Air accident in Indonesia, they added.


Boeing spokesman Gordon Johndroe said by email that a company safety review found the absence of the AOA Disagree alert did not adversely impact airplane safety or operation.


“Based on the safety review, the update was scheduled for the MAX 10 entry into service in 2020,” Johndroe said. “We fell short in the implementation of the AoA Disagree alert and are taking steps to address these issues so they do not occur again.”


Boeing has said it discovered the problem in 2017, soon after it began delivering its top-selling 737 MAX aircraft to customers. But it did not inform the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) about the defect until after the Lion Air crash more than one year later, the lawmakers said.


The House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure sent letters to Boeing, supplier United Technologies Corp and the FAA requesting further details on the AoA Disagree alert, the lawmakers said.


The letter was the second such records request sent by the committee to Boeing and the FAA related to its investigation into the MAX aircraft."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KCN1T8284?il=0


With full knowledge of the FAA, no doubt.

It seems Boeing are doing their level best with the families of the dead to avoid the whole 737 Max Deathtrap being dragged through the courts.

One hopes the ambulance chasers will adjust their demands accordingly knowing they have Boeing over a barrel.

THAI to fly direct to Sendai



BANGKOK, 14 June 2019(NNT) - Thai Airways International plans to resume direct flights between Bangkok and Sendai, from this year’s wintertime and expects up to 80% of Thai travelers to fly with them.


THAI President Sumet Damrongchaitham, has confirmed that THAI has signed an agreement with Sendai in Japan to resume direct flights between Bangkok and Sendai for a three-year period, offering three round-trip flights per week beginning on October 29. THAI currently provides chartered flights between Bangkok and Sendai. Up to 80% of Thai travelers to Sendai and 20% of Japanese travelers to Bangkok are expected to fly them. The anticipated number of air travelers would increase two or three times over the years.


In promotional round-trip flights, the air fare begins at 13,420 baht for one passenger alone and 12,820 baht for each member of a group of four passengers.


In addition, the online trading of goods via the THAI website and Application is expected to begin in the third quarter of this year. Meanwhile, THAI Kitchen will be hired to make meals for the passengers of many leading airlines.



National News Bureau Of Thailand

It's Airbus 13,000,000,000 - Boeing 0, On The First Day Of The Paris Air Show

As the jarring truth about Boeing's "cost-cutting above all" philosophy involving the company's deadly, ill-fated 737 MAX (or whatever the company's ill-fated plane may be called soon) receives an ever-wider public appreciation, the company is finding it increasingly difficult to do business as usual.

Take the Paris Air Show, traditionally the venue where the world's largest aircraft makers lock in deals worth tens of billions of dollars. Well, the first day of the 2019 edition of this boondoggle couldn't have gone any worse for Boeing, and alternatively it couldn't have been better for Airbus, which locked in $13 billion in orders for new jets.

Boeing's tally? $0.

Among those lining up to order Europe's iconic (if subsidized) airlines included Air Lease Corp., the giant US leasing company, which agreed to buy planes worth $11 billion before customary discounts, including the new A321XLR. Virgin Atlantic also bought eight A330 wide-bodies with options for six more.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...paris-air-show

Airbus and Boeing aircraft deals at Paris Airshow

"AIRBUS

* Air Lease Corp signs letter of intent for 50 A220-300s, 27 A321XLRs and 23 A321neos worth an estimated $11 billion at list prices.

* Virgin Atlantic orders 14 A330neos worth $4.1 billion at list prices, and takes out an option for six more.

* Lebanon’s Middle East Airlines orders four A321XLRs, estimated to be worth more than $500 million at list prices.

* Philippines budget airline Cebu Air orders 16 A330neos, 10 A321XLRs and five A320neos, worth about $6 billion in total at list prices.

* Saudi Arabian Airlines orders a further A320neo family aircraft worth an estimated $3.3 billion at list prices, and takes out options for as many as 35 more.

* Malaysia’s AirAsia Group converts 253 A320neo orders to the larger A321neo. Financial terms not disclosed

BOEING

* Korean Air commits to buying 20 787 Dreamliners worth $6.3 billion at list prices.

* Air Lease Corp commits to buying 5 more 787-9, worth about $1.5 billion at list prices.

* GECAS exercises purchase rights for 10 737-800 Boeing Converted Freighters worth about $1.1 billion at list prices, and adds 15 more purchase rights. '

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...KCN1TJ1CJ?il=0


As 18/6/19.

Airbus US$ 29,900,000, (without the 235 A320neo to A321 upgrade costs to Air Asia.)

Boeing US$ 8,900,000

Willie Walsh has signed an LoI for 200 Deathtraps. The discount must be sizable.

Emirates are expected to go big on Airbus but they like to announce their deals at the Dubai Air Show.

No question Boeing is in full damage limitation marketing mode as the bad press news builds daily.

"Sully' Sullenberger says he struggled to recover Boeing 737 MAX in flight simulation"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/19/p...rio/index.html

Ban
Our
Engineering
It’s
No
Good

Airlines
Instinctively
Reject
Boeing’s
Utter
Shite

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Willie Walsh has signed an LoI for 200 Deathtraps. The discount must be sizable.

That could be a very shrewd move indeed....

No question the 737 Max will be flying again, just a matter of when.

Malfunctioning
Crashing
Aircraft
System

American Airlines Orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs

JUNE 19, 2019 BY BEN (LUCKY) 29

Well here comes an A321XLR order that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

American orders 50 A321XLRs

American Airlines has just placed an order for 50 Airbus A321XLR aircraft. This deal includes the conversion of 30 A321neo orders (they have a total of 100 A321neos on order), as well as 20 additional A321XLR orders.

The A321XLR is Airbus’ new long range single aisle plane, which will be able to operate up to 4,700nm nonstop once it enters service in 2023.

When will American take delivery of A321XLRs?
American will take delivery of their A321XLRs over the following timeframe, which I consider to be pretty quick:

8 in 2023
22 in 2024
20 in 2025

Where will American fly A321XLRs?
American Airlines has desperately been in need of a plane like this. American is in the process of retiring their 757s and 767s, leaving them without a plane to operate long haul flights to secondary markets. The A321XLR fills this niche perfectly.

Rendering of American A321XLR


American Airlines is pretty explicit in saying that their primary goal with the A321XLR is to operate the aircraft from US East Coast airports to medium-sized European cities.

So you can expect that the A321XLRs will primarily be based at New York JFK and Philadelphia, and from there they can fly virtually anywhere in Europe. I’d expect them to be flown to markets like Budapest, Dublin, Edinburgh, Manchester, Prague, etc.

However, I’d note that an order for 50 planes is huge, and suggests to me that the planes will be used for many more routes than just East Coast to Europe. I could also see some A321XLRs being based in Miami, and being used for flights to South America.

Here’s a map showing the plane’s range from New York:



Here’s a map showing the plane’s range from Philadelphia:



And here’s a map showing the plane’s range from Miami:



How will American configure their A321XLRs?
Earlier I wrote a post with details on what the A321XLR means for passengers.

While we don’t have exact details yet on how American will configure A321XLRs, American President Robert Isom did drop some hints in an interview today:

Density will not be the focus for these planes
American wants a business class with fully flat seats and direct aisle access
American wants to have premium economy on these planes
That’s the hope as of now, though we’re still several years off from these planes being delivered, and I’m not sure what Isom said has fully gone through American’s bean counting department. 😉

If American does in fact go with direct aisle access in business class, perhaps their business class will be similar to the first class product they have on their A321Ts, which are used on premium transcontinental flights.

American’s A321T first class

So it sounds like American’s A321XLRs won’t simply have the same B/E Aerospace Diamond seats that they currently have in business class on their A321Ts and 757s.

American’s 757 business class


Bottom line
The A321XLR is a plane that American desperately needs, so I’m happy to see they placed this order so they could secure early slots.

Like I said, this order has been rumored for a while, so it doesn’t come as a surprise. Though I guess in some way I am a bit surprised that American was actually proactive enough to place the order, since I feel like their strategy lately has just been to do as little as possible while hoping for the best.

What do you make of American’s A321XLR order?

https://onemileatatime.com/american-...a321xlr-order/

UK still trusting in Max?

Airbus says did not get chance to bid for the MAX order IAG gave to Boeing

Airbus confirmed on Thursday that it had not been offered a chance to bid for a surprise aircraft order announced by British Airways owner IAG at the Paris Airshow, involving 200 of the grounded 737 MAX.

Airbus said that it nevertheless wanted a chance to bid for business at that airline company.

The company's sales chief, Christian Scherer, made the comment at a news conference after announcing a total of 363 orders and commitments so far at the Paris Airshow, including 226 for the newly launched A321XLR. Airbus is in negotiations for further orders, he added.

Earlier this week, Boeing won a major vote of confidence at the Paris Airshow as British Airways owner IAG signed a letter of intent to buy 200 of its 737 MAX aircraft that have been grounded since March after two deadly crashes.

IAG had earlier declined to comment on details of the negotiations.

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/ai...boeing-3483726

No airline wants a monopoly manufacturer. Always best to keep a sensible split and have them competing.