Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
Wasn't it OhOh who claimed
Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
I don't think hoohoo would deny that
Not me.
Post the link charlatans.


Quote Originally Posted by Bonecollector View Post
This madness and unrelenting stream of people, who we know nothing about, has to stop yesterday.
You may wish to recall the previous waves of refugees fleeing NaGastan and NATO wars, in Asia and Africa. Travelling to Europe via many routes.

At one time, it was EU policy to receive and help the refugees to travel, along with providing shelter, jobs and living expenses.

That policy changed and Turkey was incentivised to "manage" the Asian refugees within Turkey. Due to local problems.

Some have suggested the refugees currently stuck are of Afghanistan or Turkish origin.

Some have suggested those responsible for the creation, by bombing, mining, splattering children starving ...., of the flow of refugees are responsible and must arrange, a Turkey like solution, possibly.

Some have suggested the relevant countries should engage with the Bellarussin government and other governments along the route to agree a solution. If they wish to uphold the refugee's human rights.

The European countries need to decide which is important, refugees human rights or political games, at the refugees cost. Or group sanctions.

Some political leaders have discussed the current situation and suggested some steps that may alleviate this situation.

Telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel, at the German side’s initiative.

November 10, 202113:45

"The parties discussed at length the refugee crisis on the Belarusian border with EU countries and expressed concern over its humanitarian consequences.

The President of Russia proposed establishing direct dialogue between representatives of the EU member states and Minsk to discuss the problems that have emerged in this respect.
Vladimir Putin and Angela Merkel agreed to continue discussing this topic."

Telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel • President of Russia

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's remarks and answers to media questions at a joint news conference with Foreign Minister of Belarus Vladimir Makei following a meeting of the collegiums of the Russian and Belarusian foreign ministries, Moscow, November 10, 2021

2284-10-11-2021

Q & A on the refuge issue in Belorussian.

"Question (to Vladimir Makei):

 Austrian Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said Vienna will host an international conference on Belarusian issues. He noted that it is inappropriate to talk to Minsk in the language of sanctions alone. Does this mean that our Western partners are seeking an opportunity for talks? What is this initiative about? Will current authorities from the Republic of Belarus attend this conference?

Sergey Lavrov (after Vladimir Makei):

I would like to support this statement. Maybe the Austrian Chancellor was guided by the best intentions when he urged his colleagues not to talk to Minsk in the language of sanctions alone and to start a dialogue, but this is not the way to initiate a dialogue.

As Mr Makei noted, and with good reason, this initiative implied a feeling of superiority that has spread to all members of the Western community, be it the European Union, NATO or other sub-regional blocs. This superiority complex is unacceptable in relations between sovereign states. The EU should respect the opinions of all members of the international community in line with the UN Charter and abstain from interference in the internal affairs of any state.

Question (to both ministers):

Does Minsk need Russia’s mediation in developing a dialogue on migrants and sanctions with Warsaw, Vilnius and Brussels?

Have the Lithuanian and Polish authorities officially or unofficially addressed Moscow and Minsk with a request to discuss the migration crisis?

Sergey Lavrov (answers after Vladimir Makei):

Neither Poles, nor Lithuanians, nor anyone else has asked us about possible mediation or participation in these talks. They don’t address anyone for any reason. They simply enjoy being tough when making loud statements like this, accusing Belarus and Russia (as the countries “behind these developments”). I believe this is an expression of what we just talked about – a feeling of one’s own superiority and impunity across the board. At this stage of the border situation,

Belarus has repeatedly suggested holding consultations, coming to terms and resolving these issues in accordance with international humanitarian law, but this is not mentioned in public rhetoric at all. A proposal by President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to start consultations immediately after the Ryanair incident was rejected as well. Nobody wanted to hear it.

There is no other way but to talk and decide what has really happened with the facts in hand. But this is what our European partners are like. They should probably look at themselves first since there is a lot to see there.

Question (for both ministers):

Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki called Warsaw security forces on the border with Belarus “the first frontline.” A military expert also says the situation on the border is the gravest since 1939.

How relevant are such parallels?

If Poland is really waging war or preparing for one, then who is it fighting?Sergey Lavrov: I have already mentioned that the use of historical examples and historical parallels can be seen more often in the discourse of our Western colleagues now. At the same time, they always use what I would call “clipping tactics.”

If Polish military experts say the situation reminds them of 1939, then why not 1938?

Perhaps that year would also remind them of something, for example, like dividing Czechoslovakia?

I believe such parallels are absolutely irrelevant. They reflect the shallow thinking of the people that voice them, especially if these people hold power.

They only mean one thing: the most recent EU members continue to drive Europe, as part of the European Union and NATO, towards escalating confrontation with Belarus and Russia.

I hope responsible Europeans, especially the “Euro grandees”, show some will and refuse to allow themselves to be dragged into a dangerous spiral."

https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy...ent/id/4932930

Telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel.

November 11, 2021

"The leaders continued their discussion of the situation on the Belarusian borders with the European Union and confirmed the importance of settling the acute migration crisis as soon as possible in accordance with international humanitarian standards.

Vladimir Putin supported the restoration of contacts between the EU states and Belarus with a view to resolving this problem.

During an exchange of views on the domestic conflict in Ukraine, President Putin noted Kiev’s destructive policy, which is relying increasingly on force. Thus, it is using assault drones in violation of the Minsk Package of Measures. The destabilising and dangerous provocations by the armed forces of the United States and other NATO countries in the Black Sea was also noted."

Telephone conversation with Acting Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel • President of Russia

Poland violates international norms on Belarusian border — Russian diplomat

The diplomat went on to say that Russia had many questions to European Union countries about the migrant crisis on the border between Belarus and Poland

12 Nov, 06:54

"Poland is violating international norms by its treatment of migrants on the border with Belarus, Russian First Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN Dmitry Polyansky said on Thursday. "There are lots of cases when Polish and Lithuanian border guards beat migrants and pushed them back to the Belarusian territory. I would say that this is total shame and total violation of all possible international conventions and rules," he told reporters in the run-up to a UN Security Council meeting on the issue.

The diplomat went on to say that Russia had many questions to European Union countries about the migrant crisis on the border between Belarus and Poland, and would certainly ask them.

At the same time, Polyansky added that after a readmission treaty with the EU was suspended, "there are no reasons to send them [migrants] back to the countries where they came from." "That would be a total violation of any international conventions," he said.
In his words, Russia and Belarus are not helping migrants to get to the border with Poland in any way.

"No, absolutely not," he said, answering to a reporter’s question.

The diplomat went on to say that he disagreed with Western nations’ attempts to portray the migrant crisis as artificially created.

"You will find it when you will speak to the refugees. I saw several reports, for example, by the German TV. The German television reported from a place where people who managed to get from Poland to Germany are placed now. And they are telling their stories, they are telling <…> that it was absolutely their decision, nobody pushed them, and they have legal reasons, because Belarus does not have a visa regime with some countries," he said.

The migrant crisis on Belarus’ border with Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland, which has been growing since the start of the year, exploded on November 8, when several thousand people amassed on the Belarusian side of the border fence with Poland, refusing to leave the area. Some EU countries accused Minsk of deliberately exacerbating the crisis, calling for sanctions against the Belarusian government. The country’s president Alexander Lukashenko blamed the predicament on Western countries, since it had been precisely their actions that had forced these people to flee their war-ravaged homelands."

https://tass.com/world/1360405

Meanwhile, unexceptional countries jump for sanctions, as usual:

US, UK, EU ready to discuss new sanctions against Minsk — statement

The countries claim that Minsk’s goal is "destabilizing neighbouring countries and the European Union’s external border and diverting attention away from its own increasing human rights violations"

12 Nov, 10:37

"The United States, the United Kingdom and European Union states members of the UN Security Council are ready to discuss imposing sanctions on the Belarusian government and on those whom they blame for fuelling the migrant crisis on the border with Poland. "Together, we express our solidarity with Poland and Lithuania and stand ready to discuss further measures that we can take to support them and target those involved in and contributing to activities by the Lukashenko regime that facilitate the illegal crossing of the external borders of the European Union," the countries said in a joint statement, published after closed UN Security Council consultations on the issue.

The countries vowed to remain united and determined in protecting the EU "against these hybrid operations by Belarusian authorities."

They also urged the countries of migrants’ origin and transit to warn their nationals "against falling into the trap set by the Belarusian·authorities."

Western countries also called upon Minsk to ensure due protection and help for the migrants.

"We stress that all actions must be guided by fundamental values, especially regarding the protection of migrants’ human rights," the joint statement says.

Threat to security

The United States, the United Kingdom and EU states members of the UN Security Council believe that the government of Belarus poses a threat to regional security and call for measures against it. Their joint statement says Minsk’s ‘tactic’ as "unacceptable," adding that it "calls for a strong international reaction and cooperation in order to hold Belarus accountable."

"It demonstrates how the Lukashenko regime has become a threat to regional stability," the document says.

The countries claim that Minsk’s goal is "destabilizing neighbouring countries and the European Union’s external border and diverting attention away from its own increasing human rights violations."

The migrant crisis on the Belarusian border with Latvia, Lithuania and Poland where the migrants have been flocking since the beginning of the year, sharply aggravated on November 8. Several thousand people approached the Polish border from Belarus and refused to leave the area. Some of them attempted to enter Poland by destroying a barbed-wire fence. EU countries have accused Minsk of the intentional escalation of the crisis and have called for sanctions. Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko stated that the Western countries themselves were to blame for the situation since people were fleeing the war in their homelands because of the West’s actions."

https://tass.com/world/1360425