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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    It wasn't an accident
    An excellent accurate, conclusive, attack on a foreign aircraft/foreign attack weapon, by a well trained military. (10/10)

    Equipped with a defensive system that actually did what it said on the tin. (10/10)

    A Russian product that was purchased, by the Iranian military, for this type of engagement. (10/10)

    As for the target not being correctly identified prior to the order being given, to press the launch button. Most of the previous occupiers of such "hot seats" are promoted to a desk job or retired with some large cash award. Military and weapons suppliers.

    It's not an unusual or specifically "little brown desert dwellers" trait either.

    Some are actually revered for their actions in such events, are presented a medal by HM. and added to the battalion's flag and written into their glorious history.

    Ukrainian airliner crashes near Tehran: Iranian media-pborn305-jpg

    “The Fog of War” Painting by Lieutenant Anson 1935


    "This oil painting is displayed int the 1st Battalion as a striking piece of graphical art and as a reminder of the consistency of the chaos and confusion that exists in battle.

    This oil painting “The Fog of War” hangs in the Officers’ Mess of the 1st Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment (1 PWRR) and is a striking reminder of the consistency of the chaos, confusion and sacrifice that exists in battle. Second Lieutenant Anson's picture has always been popular within the custodian regiments and is the artist’s impression of the fearsome conditions experienced by the 57th of Foot (West Middlesex Regiment) at the battle of Albuhera on 16th May 1811. 1 PWRR inherited the painting from the 1st Battalion The Middlesex Regiment via the 4th Battalion The Queen’s Regiment (Middlesex) and the 1st Battalion The Queen’s Regiment."

    The Fog of War - oil painting by Lt Hanson | Army Tigers


    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Well that lemming OhDoh can stop trying to deny it now.
    I'm sure the "knowledgable military experts" here on TD, will agree that although "the battle was won, the war outcome has yet to be decided".

    Many movie scripts depicting the incident are being written, actors being selected and financing approved, with the hope the movie will garner 1,000,000,000 THB.



    Conclusion:

    Don't fly on an aircraft in a war zone, where multiple entities are threatening each other or some to "splatter you in the desert" ( ™ 'arry).

    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Just shows how primitive Iranian command and control is.
    An order given, a decision made, a button pressed, a missile fired and a target destroyed (10/10)

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Let me give you a more likely scenario:

    The Iranians are inept tub thumpers, and having launched some missiles at the US (probably unwillingly), they were shitting themselves at the possibility of a proper airstrike coming their way, and panicked.
    An order given, a decision made, a button pressed, a missile fired and a target destroyed (10/10)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ukrainian airliner crashes near Tehran: Iranian media-pborn305-jpg  
    Last edited by OhOh; 12-01-2020 at 01:24 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Besides, it is well know the Iranians are liars so still can't be sure. Ain't that right Oh?
    If you want to point at one group, that's up to you. A possible broader view may stop you making such partisan accusations.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    “The Fog of War”
    The Fog of War

    The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara is a 2003 American documentary film about the life and times of former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara illustrating his observations of the nature of modern warfare. The film was directed by Errol Morris and features an original score by Philip Glass. The title derives from the military concept of the "fog of war" depicting the difficulty of making decisions in the midst of conflict.

    Robert McNamara's 11 lessons from Vietnam
    From Robert McNamara's 1995 book In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam.[13]

    1. We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

    2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

    3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

    4. Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

    5. We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

    6. We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

    7. After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

    8. We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

    9. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

    10. We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

    11. Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

    The Fog of War - Wikipedia

  4. #54
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    Tragic mistake by a nervous Iranian military.

    The silver lining is the associated catastrophic diplomatic disaster for Iran which may be enough ultimately to bring them to their knees in the nuclear weapons negotiations; which is what this is all about at the end of the day.

  5. #55
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    funny thing is other planes took off on the same trajectory in the same time frame, so difficult to understand why that one triggered such an alarm

    wouldn't surprise me if Boeing planes had a secret transponder switched on by the CIA when they need to locate a plane

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    wouldn't surprise me if Boeing planes had a secret transponder switched on by the CIA when they need to locate a plane
    Ukrainian airliner crashes near Tehran: Iranian media-giphy-gif-cid-790b7611d3ce224b102adac50cedd52668c805062118a091-rid-giphy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ukrainian airliner crashes near Tehran: Iranian media-giphy-gif-cid-790b7611d3ce224b102adac50cedd52668c805062118a091-rid-giphy  

  7. #57
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    I don't know what all the fuss is about, the Yanks have off'd more using the 737 Max and it took them over a year to admit it

  8. #58
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    Any information about the black box, or is the Iranian explanation accepted?

    Who profits from this disaster?

    RIP all aboard.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Tragic mistake by a nervous passangers
    FIFY.

    Did they not watch CNN in their hotel rooms/at the airport? Were they not aware of a war being waged in the country/goldilocks threats of, "splattering" (™ 'arry), Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    nervous Iranian military
    Nervous or professionals?

    The crew had standing orders, as I suspect most military unites do.

    Possibly a new app, they didn't receive "adequate training" on.

    As in the, 'xxx" and "yyy" crashes, "splattering" (™ 'arry), "zzz" innocent civilians.

    Page 210 Unexpected Event

    Select Icon A: 0 If this event = A go 1, Where A = aerial target
    Select Icon B: 1 If this event = B go 2, Where B = aerial target < 5km from X
    Select Icon C: 2 Launch ...........


    The crew followed them, the crew launched a missile at a "target", the "target" was hit and destroyed. High 5's all around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    they need to locate a plane
    Or take control. Tech has been around for decades.

    A US patent currently assigned to Raytheon.

    Method and apparatus for providing an aircraft emergency safety control system

    US6739556B1


    United States

    Current AssigneeRaytheon Co


    "BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
    An airborne aircraft may suffer loss of control due to incapacitation of the crew. This may be caused by death of one or more crewmembers, a medical emergency, a hijacking, or other emergency situation. In the case of hijacking, the aircraft may be commandeered by unauthorized persons and used as a weapon as has been demonstrated. Such actions may even necessitate the destruction of the commandeered aircraft by military aircraft taking defensive measures.

    Systems have been designed to control vehicles via Remote Control, as well as to control vehicles robotically. Examples include Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs), also known as Unmanned Vehicles (UV), developed by the military, robotic vehicles sent to Mars by NASA, the use of artificial intelligence to guide missiles, autopilots capable of landing aircraft in poor weather conditions, and the like. However, no systems have been developed to provide auxiliary control of commercial aircraft in the case of emergencies. The primary reason for this is the perceived absence of a need to do so, as well as safety concerns. Recent events, however, have changed this view."


    US6739556B1 - Method and apparatus for providing an aircraft emergency safety control system - Google Patents
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  10. #60
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    ^^^ Even with the smiley, that was in poor taste...

    ^ Even with a tin foil hat, you are a blabbering idiot...

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    you are a blabbering idiot...
    An exceptional one?

    No comment on my computer coding skills?
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riely View Post
    Any information about the black box, or is the Iranian explanation accepted?

    Who profits from this disaster?

    RIP all aboard.
    It was pretty obvious from the beginning that this was a missile strike. See my first post on this thread...

    The black box and the cvr are not going to add much to the investigation. The in- flight fire, break-up and multiple fires on impact are very telling on what happened. That coupled with multiple puncture marks make it pretty damn obvious. Even the Iranians could no longer deny the facts....


    ...and ohoh, are you trying to write in FORTRAN IV?

  13. #63
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    Call me a parotid, skeptic, but as someone posted, lots of planes took off from that airport, the Ukraine plane was delayed by and hour, which other plane was in that time slot. Planes have transponders that identify them, kind of hard to miss. Missile may have locked on to the wrong plane.

  14. #64
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Planes have transponders that identify them, kind of hard to miss. Missile may have locked on to the wrong plane.
    Irrespective, the transponder would have declared it to be a commercial flight so someone really fucked up or it was deliberate? We will never know.

  15. #65
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    There were plenty of people protesting against the Mad Mullahs before this. I'm just surprised they are reporting it in state controlled media.

    Is this a new era of glastnost and perestroika in Iran?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Call me a parotid, skeptic, but as someone posted, lots of planes took off from that airport, the Ukraine plane was delayed by and hour, which other plane was in that time slot. Planes have transponders that identify them, kind of hard to miss. Missile may have locked on to the wrong plane.
    call me paranoid too, but how difficult would it be for the Pentagon/CIA to shutdown that transponder remotely? and lead the Iranians to make such a blatant mistake? not saying the Iranians are not incompetent either, the Americans surely are for striking their own troops which all identifications transponders of their own

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    are you trying to write in FORTRAN IV?
    I believe it was called BASIC.

    The task was to create punched cards to run a structural analysis programme on a main frame, analysing NCB Winding Gear member sizes. Which may have been Fortran based.

    I has to be 30+ years ago.

    At the time the company computer manager was a busty Yorkshire lass, who I needed to to closely look over my shoulder, constantly.

    If the programme/the punched cards read/ran perfectly I had to review the dot matrix printer output and identify any non acceptable over-stressed members, increase their size and re-run the analysis.

    This entailed more visits to the computer room accompanied by the Computer manager. Each run took some time.

    Occasionally we went to the pub, just to pass the time. Well paid if I remember rightly.

    Eventually I was offered a contract in Doha, Qatar. It pissed off the company employees in Doha as I was paid a good hourly rate, a paid in Rials daily allowance, accommodation, food allowance, flights and a provided with 4 WD Subaru Boxer engined estate.

    A French Embassy employee introduced me to windsurfing. The boards rode on the roof rack and usually stayed on the roof, but not always. The car wasn't so good in the beach sand.

    More recently I had a team of "programmers" who listened patiently to my desires and used I believe C+++ to provide me with applications to demonstrate to clients.
    Last edited by OhOh; 12-01-2020 at 10:08 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  18. #68
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    There will be a Memorial for Souleiman later today in the City Hall Square of Copenhagen.

    Also you can enjoy a demonstration against the Memorial featuring Koran-and Souleiman Poster burning.

    I do expect a demonstration against the demonstration featuring a lot of police(wasted tax money).


    Nothing on the telly tonight ?

    All fools

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It was a civilian aircraft in Iranian airspace shot down by Iranian missiles you utter fucking cock.



    P.S. I'm not sure if you are stunned by the fact that they did it, which is not at all surprising, or that they've admitted it, which is quite a stunner for the mad mullahs.
    More shoes to drop in this case.

    Rumor has it that there is a 5th column in the IRGC. Point and shoot. 10 planes took off before this one. Take off was normal. Iran may have admitted it to bluff for some days.

    It just doesnt make any sense. NATO and Serbia went at it with these systems for 70 days without incident.

    The usual video surfaced right away. The propagandists like BellingCat swooped into action.

    More shoes to drop imo

  20. #70
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    double post
    Last edited by Backspin; 13-01-2020 at 11:12 AM.

  21. #71
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    Apologies for copying and pasting this post from a blog comment

    ▪▪▪▪▪▪
    There’s something about this incident that leaves me wanting. I just can’t shoehorn the following items together logically, taking them at face value.
    1: The Washington Post had this:
    — nor did Iran’s Civil Aviation Organization close the airspace over the country. At least three other aircraft were in flight near Tehran at the time of the downing, according to civil aviation monitors.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl…...outputType=amp
    Then there’s this:


    There were 10 departures from Tehran-IKA from midnight local time 8 Jan through the departure of PS752 at 06:12 LT. Prior to PS752, the last flight movement at IKA was the departure of QR8408 at 05:39 local time.


    Page not found | Flightradar24 Blog
    Now, to Moon of Alabama in a piece from yesterday. (b’s commentary)
    “What I find inexplicable is that the crew of Tor M-1 air defense system did not really consider that the Tehran airport was operating and that civil traffic was likely. More than ten planes had already taken off before the Ukrainian flight took to the air. The accident happened shortly after 6:00 am local time. Pure speculation: I suspect that a crew change had happened at 6:00 am and that the overnight crew did not really brief the one taking over.”


    MoA - Iranian Armed Forces Say They Inadvertently Shot Down The Ukrainian Plane - Updated

    Okay, now try to fit the pieces together. Apparently 3 other planes are flying in the area at the time. A plane had taken off from Teheran airport 30 minutes prior to the Ukrainian plane.
    First off, those 3 other planes were not fired on by this or any other missile battery. Obviously Iranian airspace was not closed down.
    Secondly, why did not this particular missile battery not fire at the plane that had taken off 30 minutes prior? Different crew, as ‘b’ speculates?

    It being a different crew doesn’t really explain this away. Not being fully briefed as ‘b’ suggests? How long does it take to say that the airport is open and not to shoot the planes down?

    For me, tragic accident doesn’t explain this. Gross incompetence doesn’t do it, either. I’m left with this crew (not the Iranian government or military) intended to shoot the plane down to give Iran a black eye.


    Whether I’m right or wrong, the effect is the same. It’s a PR nightmare that will have far-reaching effects. Not only in world opinion, but how about the Axis’ planned unified effort to oust the hegemon from the region? Will some get cold feet now? If this was a case of a planted rat within the ranks, how far of a reach do these people have?

    Iran’s statements notwithstanding (what else could it do?), and though I hope I’m wrong, I smell a rat.

  22. #72
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    I see Mr Ohbfuscation is alive and well. I swear if Russia Nuked half of Europe, you would be going on about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Have to love those Iranian mobs.
    General killed
    Death to America.
    Plane shot down
    Death to the Ayatollah
    British Ambassador detained.
    Death to Britain
    No wonder 2 billion of them haven't invented anything of siginificence for ages, there to busy occupied with death.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I see Mr Ohbfuscation is alive and well. I swear if Russia Nuked half of Europe, you would be going on about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    Don't forget Backspin with his "Look at these comments from other whackjobs THEY MUST BE TRUE!".

    Pair of fucking nutters, they should be sectioned for their own safety.

  24. #74
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    Too many thinking too much without understanding enough.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Too many thinking too much without understanding enough.
    Yep. Sure makes sense eh. Look here. Sure makes sense that 10 aircraft followed the same path out of an intl airport in the same 8 hours and 1 got shot down


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