Thread: 16 Female Westpoint Cadets Under Investigation For Black Power Salute

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Don't think so. Think that is the standard West Point cadet uniform:

It's not. It is an old-fashioned ceremonial dress uniform used for specific occasions. .

So. The point is that this IS a West Point uniform, albeit one used on specific occasions. We can argue the use of the word "standard" - but if I do not miss my guess that is the winter parade uniform (albeit without the cross belts and tarbucket).

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Don't think so. Think that is the standard West Point cadet uniform:

It's not. It is an old-fashioned ceremonial dress uniform used for specific occasions. .

So. The point is that this IS a West Point uniform, albeit one used on specific occasions. We can argue the use of the word "standard" - but if I do not miss my guess that is the winter parade uniform (albeit without the cross belts and tarbucket).

More accurately, it WAS a West Point uniform....many years ago. It is only used today in ceremonial functions.

That said, the uniform has changed little over the years. Note old-style collars and ties.

I am sure that everything, and I mean everything at West Point is strictly detailed. On ceremonial parade occasions is this one of the stipulated uniforms - yes or no?

^I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'ceremonial parades'. As far as I know, this uniform is not used in any parades. If you're really interested, I can find out, but won't have an answer for you until tomorrow, as I imagine my brother's asleep by now.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'ceremonial parades'. As far as I know, this uniform is not used in any parades. If you're really interested, I can find out, but won't have an answer for you until tomorrow, as I imagine my brother's asleep by now.

Its not urgent, and I can wait no worries. Interested to know the answer.

So, simple question - are the dress items in the original photo part of a uniform currently in use or not?


Plebe Net

^I sent an e-mail. Stay tuned.

@ Hogg:

"The cadets are in a uniform called Full Dress Grey, with some modifications. FDG has the coat with the three rows of buttons down the front and buttons on the sleeve. It is the most formal uniform and usually is worn for events that would require formal dress, like chapel (in my day), banquets or formal dinners, and formal dances."

"FDG is the uniform worn in the individual photos in the Howitzer (the yearbook). With cross belts, rifles, bayonets and full dress hats (sashes and sabers for cadet officers) it is worn for full dress parades (some parades are in a less formal uniform). It can be worn with grey trousers, as in the photos of the women (skirts are optional), or white trousers (usually during the spring and summer). Full Dress Grey over White (with white trousers) and white hats is the graduation uniform."

"It's the uniform that has changed the least in the over 200 years West Point has been in existence. That has led to a popular trend, which is for groups of cadets to change the way the white collars are worn to make the uniform look more like the uniform from 100 years ago (the modifications), and take photos on the barracks steps that are posed like those you'd find in the yearbooks from the 1800s. That's what the female cadets are doing in the picture in question."

If it helps, this sounds like the formal dress that British military know as 'mess dress'.
The difference being that although it is a formal and regulated form of dress, it is not provided at public expense for officers or senior ranks in UK HM forces.

Originally Posted by chassamui

If it helps, this sounds like the formal dress that British military know as 'mess dress'.
The difference being that although it is a formal and regulated form of dress, it is not provided at public expense for officers or senior ranks in UK HM forces.

Not really, Chas. This is a cadet uniform. The Army version would be the Dress Blue uniform, which is far less ornate. It also must be purchased by the individual.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by chassamui

If it helps, this sounds like the formal dress that British military know as 'mess dress'.
The difference being that although it is a formal and regulated form of dress, it is not provided at public expense for officers or senior ranks in UK HM forces.

Not really, Chas. This is a cadet uniform. The Army version would be the Dress Blue uniform, which is far less ornate. It also must be purchased by the individual.

Either way, as i read that, it is a uniform. And as such, to me, that is associated with a higher level of behavior expectation.

The informal slap on the wrist is appropriate and mete.

Thanks for the folĺow up.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^I doubt any of them will be raising clenched fists at graduation next month.

They should not be at graduation next month. They should be expelled exactly the same way White males would be for engaging in such behavior in uniform.

Once again, an amazingly stupid and uninformed post.

I have a lot of respect for you, but on this one you're dead wrong. Do you really think the Officer below would have been fired so unceremoniously if he had been a Black female? Do you really think that White Males who engaged in an overt act of racial glorification while in uniform would have kept their commissions?

I believe in real equality, in which everyone is held to the same standards. We do not have that in present day America. The very fact someone saw fit to separate out the Black females for a separate photograph at all screams that something is wrong.

Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran
Barbara Starr-Profile-Image
By Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent
Updated 2339 GMT (0739 HKT) May 12, 2016
Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran - CNNPolitics.com

Originally Posted by BobR

The very fact someone saw fit to separate out the Black females for a separate photograph at all screams that something is wrong.

Probably themselves.

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^I doubt any of them will be raising clenched fists at graduation next month.

They should not be at graduation next month. They should be expelled exactly the same way White males would be for engaging in such behavior in uniform.

Once again, an amazingly stupid and uninformed post.

I have a lot of respect for you, but on this one you're dead wrong. Do you really think the Officer below would have been fired so unceremoniously if he had been a Black female? Do you really think that White Males who engaged in an overt act of racial glorification while in uniform would have kept their commissions?

I believe in real equality, in which everyone is held to the same standards. We do not have that in present day America. The very fact someone saw fit to separate out the Black females for a separate photograph at all screams that something is wrong.

Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran
Barbara Starr-Profile-Image
By Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent
Updated 2339 GMT (0739 HKT) May 12, 2016
Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran - CNNPolitics.com

Totally different situations, Bob.

Originally Posted by BobR

Do you really think the Officer below would have been fired so unceremoniously if he had been a Black female?

Yes, the Commanding Officer of a ship, or flotilla, who negligently strays into foreign territorial waters potentially causing a hostile, or at minimum diplomatic incident, can expect to be dismissed summarily, following due investigation. Regardless of gender, race, or religion.

Everything is to do with 'color' or 'religion' with you, isn't it? you need to get your head screwed on. A CO's responsibilities are well defined, and this geezer made a big booboo- thus embarrassing his service and the US of A..

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by BobR

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^I doubt any of them will be raising clenched fists at graduation next month.

They should not be at graduation next month. They should be expelled exactly the same way White males would be for engaging in such behavior in uniform.

Once again, an amazingly stupid and uninformed post.

I have a lot of respect for you, but on this one you're dead wrong. Do you really think the Officer below would have been fired so unceremoniously if he had been a Black female? Do you really think that White Males who engaged in an overt act of racial glorification while in uniform would have kept their commissions?

I believe in real equality, in which everyone is held to the same standards. We do not have that in present day America. The very fact someone saw fit to separate out the Black females for a separate photograph at all screams that something is wrong.

Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran
Barbara Starr-Profile-Image
By Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent
Updated 2339 GMT (0739 HKT) May 12, 2016
Navy fires officer in charge of sailors detained in Iran - CNNPolitics.com

Totally different situations, Bob.

Davis, I hope for the sake of the men and women who will have to serve under these female Officers that you are correct and that I am wrong. Hopefully we can agree on that, and they will turn out to be competent and dedicated Officers.

Originally Posted by BobR

Davis, I hope for the sake of the men and women who will have to serve under these female Officers that you are correct and that I am wrong. Hopefully we can agree on that, and they will turn out to be competent and dedicated Officers.

FFS. Every cadet makes an error in judgment a some stage, that's what the cadet corp is all about. Learning.

Originally Posted by BobR

Davis, I hope for the sake of the men and women who will have to serve under these female Officers that you are correct and that I am wrong. Hopefully we can agree on that, and they will turn out to be competent and dedicated Officers.

I hope so. A number of them are varsity athletes, class officers, or both.

There were actually three photos taken. One was serious mode, one was silly mode, and the third was the controversial one. I think if all three pictures had been aired, this probably wouldn't have been such an issue.

Unfortunately, the person who sent it to the press just cherry-picked the one he thought would stir some shit.