Thread: China 'building runway in disputed South China Sea island'

Originally Posted by Norton

super carriers which can go anywhere they want.

Not quite, didn't Hong Kong say no to a visit just recently? I presume because it is inside Chinas territorial waters.

Doesn't UNCLOS define territorial waters based on territory held by a country and join up the dots/islands with a straight line.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Doesn't UNCLOS define territorial waters based on territory held by a country and join up the dots/islands with a straight line.

Yes. 12 miles but considers reefs and islands within 12 miles.

Originally Posted by OhOh

didn't Hong Kong say no to a visit just recently?

Yes. Port well within territorial waters and country has right to deny warships passage through or in it's territorial waters.

'oppo'. Sounds suspiciously like a Chinese guy saying 'apple' doesn't it.
Yes of course the Chinese knockoff will outsell the outrageously expensive iPhone. It's far more affordable for the masses.

South China Sea: China announces plans to hold joint naval drills with Russia

China and Russia will hold joint naval exercises in the South China Sea in September, Beijing's defence ministry says, after an international tribunal invalidated the Asian giant's extensive claims in the area.



The drills will be carried out in the "relevant sea and air of the South China Sea", defence ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told reporters at a monthly briefing, adding the exercise was "routine" and "does not target any third party".

The announcement comes after a tribunal at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague ruled there was "no legal basis" to Beijing's claims in the South China Sea, embodied in a "nine-dash line" dating from Chinese maps of the 1940s and extending almost to the coasts of other countries, which have competing claims.

China has built a series of artificial islands on rocks and reefs in the area hosting facilities capable of supporting military operations, widely seen as an attempt to bolster its control of the strategically vital waters.

The tribunal ruling infuriated Beijing and fuelled tensions with Washington, which has sent naval vessels close to Chinese-claimed outcrops in recent months to assert the principle of freedom of navigation.

Beijing rejected the judgement as "waste paper" and asserted its right to declare an Air Defence Identification Zone controlling flights over the area.
The Philippines' hollow victory

Bill Birtles says whatever moral clout The Hague's decision gives the Philippines, it means little for fishermen.

Mr Yang said China and Russia were comprehensive strategic partners and had already held many exercises this year.

"These drills deepen mutual trust and expand cooperation, raise the ability to jointly deal with security threats, and benefit the maintenance of regional and global peace and stability," he said.

China and Russia have close military and diplomatic ties, often in opposition to the West, particularly the United States, and their leaders Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin enjoy a tight relationship.

The two sides hold joint drills regularly.

Last August, they carried out military exercises in the waters and airspace of the Peter the Great Gulf, south of the Russian Pacific city of Vladivostok, involving 22 vessels, up to 20 aircraft and more than 500 marines.

In May last year, they conducted their first joint naval exercises in European waters in the Black Sea and Mediterranean — China's farthest-ever drills from its home waters.

Mr Xi and Mr Putin meet frequently and their countries, both permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, often take similar stances there on divisive issues such as the conflict in Syria.

South China Sea: China announces plans to hold joint naval drills with Russia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


Birds of a feather...... flock together

Originally Posted by Looper

after an international tribunal invalidated the Asian giant's extensive claims in the area.

The drill has be planned for months.. It is not a reaction to an illegal courts judgement.

As an aside the Chines press is suggesting Australia may wish to modify it's stance on some issues. Along with a comment which clarifies the illegality of the said "judgement".

?Paper cat? Australia will learn its lesson - Global Times

The article is general Chinese ranting. The comment speaks for it's self.

"The ruling of July 12th on the South China Sea was not made by the Permanent Court of Arbitration. It was made by an arbitral tribunal unilaterally requested by the Philippines and improperly constituted under Annex VII of UNCLOS. The PCA only acts as a registry for the case.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in Hague, Netherlands (PCA) has no jurisdiction in the Philippines’ unilateral case. The PCA, established in 1899, is just an international arbitration tribunal, primarily for the settlement of disputes between states willing to submit themselves to its rulings (arbitration).

The PCA is not a UN agency, an Annex VII UNCLOS arbitral tribunal or an international court like the ICJ. So it is not empowered by UNCLOS or any international law to make any binding ruling on any State Party to UNCLOS, without the state first having agreed to submit itself to its rulings.

The Philippines’ arbitral tribunal has failed to qualify as an Annex VII UNCLOS arbitral tribunal because it has failed to comply with all the compulsory procedures necessary to constitute it as an Annex VII UNCLOS arbitral tribunal. This is because, apart from the arbitrator appointed by the Philippines, the remaining four arbitrators (including the President of the tribunal) were appointed by the ITLOS President under the provisions of Article 3(e) of Annex VII without consultation with China. Article 3(e) of Annex VII expressly requires such consultation:"


Not that the legality of anything is of necessary concern to some around the world including here on TD.

The" Chinese press"

Originally Posted by Cujo

The" Chinese press"

I hope you aren't suggesting that the "Chinese Press" is somehow, controlled?

Next you'll be saying that the commentators, or posters on the web sites, are paid by a government agency to spread malicious rumours.

Surely that would not be tolerated in any society, free or not?

China court warns against illegal fishing in riposte to South China Sea ruling

China's Supreme Court said on Tuesday people caught illegally fishing in Chinese waters could be jailed for up to a year, issuing a judicial interpretation defining those waters as including China's exclusive economic zones.

An arbitration court in the Hague ruled last month that China had no historic title over the waters of the South China Sea and that it had breached the Philippines' sovereign rights with various actions in the sea, infuriating Beijing, which dismissed the case.

None of China's reefs and holdings in the Spratly Islands entitled it to a 200-mile exclusive economic zone, the court decided.

China's Supreme Court made no direct mention of the South China Sea or the Hague ruling, but said its judicial interpretation was made in accordance with both Chinese law and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), under which the Philippines had brought its case.

"Judicial power is an important component of national sovereignty," the Supreme Court said.

"People's courts will actively exercise jurisdiction over China's territorial waters, support administrative departments to legally perform maritime management duties ... and safeguard Chinese territorial sovereignty and maritime interests."

Jurisdictional seas covered by the interpretation include contiguous zones, exclusive economic zones and continental shelves, it said.

People who illegally entered Chinese territorial waters and refused to leave after being driven out, or who re-entered after being driven away or being fined in the past year, would be considered to have committed "serious" criminal acts and could get up to a year in jail, the Supreme Court said.

"The explanation offers legal guarantees for marine fishing law enforcement," it added.

China's defense minister Chang Wanquan warned of offshore security threats, especially threats from the sea, and said China should prepare for a "people's war at sea" to safeguard national sovereignty, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of trade moves annually. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam have rival claims.

China periodically detains fishermen, especially from the Philippines and Vietnam, and Chinese fishermen also occasionally get detained by other claimants in the South China Sea.

Separately, China's military has inaugurated a memorial to servicemen who died in 1974 clashes with South Vietnamese forces that resulted in China cementing its rule over the Paracel Islands, the People's Liberation Army Daily said.

The memorial, on Duncan Island, commemorates the 18 Chinese who died, the paper added.

China court warns against illegal fishing in riposte to South China Sea ruling | Reuters

With China using bait like that to chum the waters, I imagine someone will go fishing soon. I wonder if they will have a military escort.

It appears the Japanese government can't get enough of the self inflicted pain.

From an article published by Reuters.

Japan defense review expresses 'deep concern' at Chinese coercion | Reuters

They appear to be concerned by the military build-up in the region.

The usual anti Chinese and Russian rhetoric, of course.

No mention of the Ameristani pivot.

No mention of the desire of it's own Japanese citizens to rid Japan of the ocoupying forces of Ameristan.

No mention of it's own nuclear weapons stock and nuclear capable missiles.

Not mention of the Ameristanis stationing of "defensive" missiles in S Korea.

No mention of the Ameristani offer of cheap "military assistance" to Vietnam.

No mention of the Ameristani hand-holding of the previous Philippine government's illegal attempt at raising the temperature.

Other than that I'm sure the 484 page review is a good bedtime read.

^

No mention of the 60 million chinese children (every fifth) growing up with no parents because they are busy working and living elsewhere. For example manning assembly line or building runways.

Another GREAT chinese achievement


Cold & Heartless MF

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

^

No mention of the 60 million chinese children (every fifth) growing up with no parents because they are busy working and living elsewhere. For example manning assembly line or building runways.

Another GREAT chinese achievement


Cold & Heartless MF

I'm sure they get the same amount of TV face time as their western siblings. Maybe the same cartoons, probably re-dubbed with the "correct" propaganda

I am positive many western adults would love the opportunity to build something instead of blowing things up.

Or did they "take the wrong step years ago"

Originally Posted by OhOh

Or did they "take the wrong step years ago"

Of course we did. Nice video but that does not count for the fact that you are a propaganda poster child for the worst current polluters.

Vietnamese Fishing Association Dismisses China’s Threat to Jail Fishermen

A threat issued this week by China to jail foreign fishermen who enter disputed areas of the South China Sea prompted the head of an influential Vietnamese fishing organization on Thursday to dismiss the move and assert that fishermen will continue to work in those waters, with his country taking measures against China if necessary.

“Vietnamese fishermen will continue fishing in the area as usual,” said Phan Huy Hoang, chairman of Quang Ngai Province Fishery Association. “If China should take any action [against the fishermen], the government of Vietnam will apply measures to deal with it.”

“This statement is just like other statements they [the Chinese] have made in the past to ban any fishing activities in the South China Sea within a certain area and time period,” he said. “Those statements that ban fishing activities within their nine-dash line are illegitimate, and nobody should acknowledge them.”

China’s Supreme Court said on Tuesday that the country will protect its territorial sovereignty and navigation interests within a nine-dash demarcation line that Beijing uses to claim 90 percent of the South China Sea, and jail those caught illegally fishing in its waters for up to one year.

“We already have had difficulties [fishing in the South China Sea], and I can see that we will have more difficulties,” Hoang said. “We assert our legitimate right to places where we have economic activities.”

“The international community does not accept China’s statements, so I think this should not affect the activities of Vietnamese fishermen in general and Quang Ngai fishermen in particular in their traditional fishing grounds in the South China Sea,” he said.

On July 12, an international arbitration tribunal decided in a case brought by the Philippines that China has no right to resources within the nine-dash demarcation line.

It also ruled that the nation cannot claim a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone around reefs and atolls in the Spratly and Paracel Islands, which Vietnam and other countries claim as part of their own territory and from which Chinese forces have attacked and chased away Vietnamese fishing boats over the last few years.

The Spratly and Paracel Islands, which Vietnam calls Truong Sa and Hoang Sa, respectively, are located amid strategic shipping lanes and abundant fishing grounds, and may contain oil and natural gas reserves under the seabed.

Vietnam welcomed the court’s decision and has continued to assert its sovereignty over the islands. China, however, dismissed the ruling, which invalidated nearly all of Beijing’s claims of exclusive access to the waters.

China must comply

Responding to the Chinese Supreme Court’s announcement, Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said on Thursday that China must comply with international law regarding the treatment of fishermen in the disputed region of what Vietnam calls the East Sea.

“The treatment of fishermen working in the East Sea must comply with international law and agreements reached between countries, and take on a humanitarian spirit,” he said during a regular news conference in Hanoi, the state-owned Vietnam News Agency reported.

“Vietnam reserves the necessary measures for protecting its fishermen’s legitimate interests in line with international law and practice,” he said.

He also responded to a call by China’s defense minister for the army, police, and people to prepare for a war at sea by saying that disputes concerning the South China Sea must be resolved peacefully.

“Disputes in the waters must be resolved peacefully on the basis of international law, and without use of or threat to use force,” he was quotes as saying.

China has been aggressively grabbing disputed land masses and building artificial islands in the South China Sea and outfitting them with runways and military infrastructure—moves that have threatened peace and stability in the region, a Vietnamese government spokesman said earlier this year.

Vietnamese Fishing Association Dismisses China?s Threat to Jail Fishermen

Why Location of China-Russia South China Sea Drill Matters

China's newly-announced plan to stage its first joint naval drill with Russia in the South China Sea has analysts wondering: where exactly in the sensitive region will the exercise take place?

The Chinese defense ministry kept the world guessing when it made the announcement last Thursday, providing few details beyond saying the drill, codenamed "Joint Sea-2016,” will happen in September.

"The specific location is going to be very important in determining just how controversial this drill is," said Shannon Tiezzi, editor of the online news site The Diplomat, on this week's VOA China 360 podcast.

China has been engaged in decades-long disputes with five smaller neighbors who challenge its claim of sovereignty over most of the South China Sea: Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

An international court in The Hague rejected China's sovereignty claims on July 12, but Beijing vowed to ignore the ruling.


Drill scenarios

Tiezzi said Beijing might avoid the ire of its neighbors if it holds the joint exercise with Moscow off the coast of the southern Chinese island of Hainan.

"China has held many drills very close to Hainan, where there are not any territorial or maritime disputes because it is so close to undisputed Chinese territory and longstanding Chinese military bases,” she said. "However, if the drills start moving south toward the disputed Spratly Islands and make use of some of the new facilities China has built there, that would be much more of a warning sign for the international community."

Beijing has turned several Spratly islets that it has long occupied into artificial islands in the past year, using land reclamation to build military-capable runways and ports. Those reclamations have drawn criticism from the Spratly Islands' rival claimants and from the United States, although Washington has said it is neutral on the competing maritime claims and wants them to be resolved peacefully.

If Beijing wanted to stage a joint exercise close to disputed South China Sea archipelagos such as the Spratlys or the Paracels, would Moscow agree?

China recently has been touting what it sees as Russian support for its South China Sea stance. In April, Chinese state media outlet Xinhua "applauded" Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov for criticizing efforts by some regional governments to internationalize their maritime disputes with China. Beijing has opposed such efforts because it prefers to negotiate with its weaker rivals one-by-one.


Russian dilemma

But Russia, like the United States, also has called for a diplomatic solution to the South China Sea disputes. One of the parties involved, Vietnam, has been buying Russian weapons since the Cold War.

"If Russia is seen as siding too much with China, that is going to upset Vietnam,” said Tiezzi. "There already is a sense that because of Russia's neutrality on the South China Sea issue, Vietnam now is turning to the United States for security support and jeopardizing Russia's relationship with a longstanding security partner."

Moscow also faces pressure to stay on good terms with Beijing as the two sides deepen their security cooperation, which included joint drills in the Mediterranean, the Black Sea and Sea of Japan in 2015.

Tiezzi said Russia has a common desire with China to prevent the United States from having unopposed global leadership. She said that desire trumps Russia's interest in the South China Sea, a region it does not see as vital to its security.

The Diplomat editor said Moscow's ambivalence toward Chinese claims in the South China Sea is similar to Beijing's reaction to the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014, when Crimeans voted in a Russia-backed referendum to secede from Ukraine.

"China was not thrilled, because from its point of view, allowing a group of people to choose to leave a country sets a very dangerous precedent,” she said. "But at the same time, it was not a vital interest for China's leaders, and they thought they saw more benefit by at least giving Russia the appearance of support."

Win-win option?

One way for Russia and China to satisfy each other's needs in the South China Sea could be to stage September's exercise close to Hainan.

"If we see the exercises only taking place in undisputed areas, that would be Russia walking its fine line,” said Tiezzi. "That would allow China to say, 'Look, we held a joint exercise with Russia in the South China Sea,' while Russia can say, 'Yes, but this is in undisputed international waters, or waters where China has maritime control.'"

Why Location of China-Russia South China Sea Drill Matters

An article "suggesting" joint fishing rights over some reefs may be a solution.

China-Philippines fishing deal ?may help calm troubled South China Sea waters? | South China Morning Post


China-Philippines fishing deal ‘may help calm troubled South China Sea waters’



Joint fishing rights in Scarborough Shoal could help ease tensions between Beijing and Manila, think tank chief says after talks with Fidel Ramos





Others suggesting that if implemented, further island building and the establishment of other "infrastructure" may be on it's way.

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/356031-be...manila-us-war/


"What Beijing wants in the long term is clear. Scarborough shoal in particular is a key piece in the larger puzzle. A Chinese airstrip is all but inevitable because it extends the reach of the PLA’s air force by over 1,000km, and positions it to be active off Luzon, no less than the gateway to the Western Pacific.
With the airstrip in Scarborough shoal and an early warning system on Macclesfield Bank - just east of the Paracel Islands – Beijing will be finally able to “see” all the action, friendly but mostly unfriendly, emanating from the sprawling US naval base at Guam."

One suspects the Australian government may wish to modify their stance over the SCS issue. Not only do they not recognise he PCA, they also do not recognise UNCLOS, the world (except a number of "exceptional" nations) /UN adopted and presumably accepted by Australia convention. Tarred and feather, Pot and slightly tarnished, kettle situation methinks.

Canberra should ditch double standards over maritime law - Global Times

"The Australia-East Timor disputes over maritime boundaries in the Timor Sea have been simmering for a long time, and the case is being heard at the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague at present.

But in the meantime, Australia's Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and the Attorney General George Brandis issued a joint statement: "In line with our pre-existing, legally binding treaties, which are in full accordance with international law, we will argue that the commission does not have jurisdiction to conduct hearings on maritime boundaries." This means Australia will not accept the tribunal's award on the dispute"

Australian hypocrisy on full view in UNCLOS case - Global Times

"Australia lodged a declaration in 2002, just months before Timor-Leste declared its independence, stating that it does not accept the procedures provided in UNCLOS for resolution of maritime disputes. In other words, Australia does not recognize the legitimacy of any Hague ruling, nor is there any mechanism for implementation of any recommendations that may arise as a result of the arbitration.

Sound familiar? Like the South China Sea arbitration, there is an existing agreement that a single party retrospectively disputes. In 2006, China made a similar statement excluding itself from dispute settlement procedures, pursuant to Article 298 of UNCLOS.

Concurrent to its condemnation of China's preference for bilateral negotiations with the Philippines, and its criticism of Japan for withdrawing from UNCLOS in order to allegedly pursue whale slaughter, Australia exempts itself from the very conventions it cites in denouncing other nations' supposed violations of "international law."

Unfortunately, Australia's regional bullying and the embarrassing revelation of covert spy operations overshadow its otherwise admirable aid efforts in Timor-Leste."

Philippine Leader Rejects Joint Patrols, Eyes China Weapons

MANILA, PHILIPPINES —
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said Tuesday he won't allow government forces to conduct joint patrols of disputed waters near the South China Sea with foreign powers, apparently scrapping a deal his predecessor reached with the U.S. military earlier this year.

Duterte also said he was considering acquiring defense equipment from Russia and China. The Philippines has traditionally leaned on the U.S., its longtime treaty ally, and other Western allies for its security needs.

The remarks were the latest from a Philippine president who has had an uneasy relationship with the U.S. but also has tried to mend relations with China strained over South China Sea disputes.

Duterte said he wanted only Philippine territorial waters, up to 12 nautical miles offshore, to be patrolled by Filipino forces, but not other offshore areas that are contested. He added he opposes Filipino forces accompanying foreign powers like the U.S. and China in joint patrols which could entangle the Philippines in hostilities.

"We do not go into a patrol or join any other army from now because I do not want trouble," Duterte said. "I do not want to ride gung-ho style there with China or with America. I just want to patrol our territorial waters."

Like other security pronouncements, Duterte did not provide details, but his rejection for joint patrols apparently goes against such an arrangement announced in April by the U.S. and the Philippine defense chiefs.

While visiting Manila, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter disclosed for the first time in a news conference with then Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin that U.S. ships had carried out sea patrols with the Philippines in the South China Sea, a somewhat rare move.

Carter insisted that the U.S. did not intend to be provocative and was "trying to tamp down tensions here." But Gazmin said he expected that U.S. forces, "with their presence here, will deter uncalled-for actions by the Chinese."

On Monday, Duterte said he wanted U.S. military forces out of the southern Philippines and blamed America for inflaming local Muslim insurgencies, in his first public statement opposing the presence of American troops in a part of the country.

Washington later said it had not received a formal request to remove U.S. military personnel. White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Duterte had a tendency to make "colorful comments" and drew a comparison with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.

In an apparent aim to prevent potential damage in relations, Philippine officials said Duterte wanted the Americans out of the south for fear of their safety.

"He desires that our American counterparts should be eased from harm's way," the Philippine military said, adding about 100 U.S. military personnel were in the south to provide counterterrorism advice support to Filipino forces.

"We assure our people and allies that Philippine-U.S. defense relations remains rock solid," the military said in a statement. It added that joint combat training and other activities by U.S. and Filipino forces this year and beyond "remain on track."

Philippine Leader Rejects Joint Patrols, Eyes China Weapons

Originally Posted by misskit

Duterte also said he was considering acquiring defense equipment from Russia and China

Not surprising when political rifts arise with the "west" but really amonts to little loss as it relates to US equipment sales and certainly not a big gain for China or Russians. Philippines military assets are a mish mash of mostly obselete equipment. The bulk of equipment is not from US suppliers. Most from Japan, Korea or Europe.

The Philippines have been talking about modernizing their military for years but never allocate a budget to do it and under Durate not going to change.

Bottom line is the Philippines military is dependent on treaties with the US and other western nations to protect it's sovereignty. If Durate wants to change this he should be pushing a treaty with China and/or Russia to do the same. That would be big news. Buying defense equipment from China or Russia amounts to nothing more than political rhetoric.

Originally Posted by misskit

"He desires that our American counterparts should be eased from harm's way,"

As is his right under the 1951 Defense Cooperation Agreement and the current controversial Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement.

Originally Posted by misskit

Washington later said it had not received a formal request to remove U.S. military personnel

You want US forces out Durate? Do it. No reason need be given.

Sounds like the Chinese have got to Duerte.

a dash of communism might do the Filipinos good.