Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew dies at 91

**Seekingasylum** · 23-03-2015, 02:35 PM

Indeed, Rob, they simply haven't a clue.

Singapore has a tremendous sentimental attraction for me, I grew up there, and I have re- visited the place several times but it has changed out of all recognition and is not a happy place at all. I watched an interesting programme some while back about the explosion in stomach ailments particularly IBS and ulcerative conditions among HDB dwellers in Singapore. Local social and medical healthcare practitioners were at a loss as to explain why this should occur but the residual consensus concluded stress was an important factor.

Singaporeans in the main are on a treadmill in a pressure cooker with no realistic prospect of escaping their lot but the sense that they have no control whatsoever over their daily lives is deepening. From cradle to grave, every facet of their lives is determined by a government which is imposed upon them without choice. The older generation still recall the material improvement that came with the PAP autocracy, swapping kampong life for the modern comfort of a flat, but the successive generations are not so easily appeased. They will get their freedom but it'll be a difficult path to navigate away from the dubious comfort of a benign dictatorship that is actually suffocating them.

**panama hat** · 23-03-2015, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Indeed, Rob, they simply haven't a clue.

All the better that you do . . . even if only according to you

**Loy Toy** · 23-03-2015, 02:54 PM

Oh, Look.

The internet experts coming out giving their advice about how to run a country with many millions, even a billion citizens.

Hang on........... Not advice, only criticism.

Are there any figures or data about how many people Lee Kuan Yew exterminated on his road to power?

**Seekingasylum** · 23-03-2015, 03:11 PM

Are you alright?

**Ronin** · 23-03-2015, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Are you alright?

Are you? For somebody who has lived in Singapore, I find it amazing that you are so ignorant of the facts; look at the history (although I admit it is not always easy to find for some reason). Around 30 years ago Singapore was an under-developed backwater where the docks for example where rife with opium dens. One serious worry for the government was the possible invasion of the triads - who wants them for neighbours?

This I believe was the reason for Lee Kuan Yew's heavy handedness. I don't know why you whinge about everything else since every country has it's rules, laws, social problems and corruption. My guess is you are like so many expats; despite your lack of knowledge of the society you were once living in you consider yourself somehow superior, yet I really had to laugh at you not knowing about electronic road-pricing. I know about that and I have only ever visited as a tourist.......

**Latindancer** · 23-03-2015, 03:34 PM

It was a backwater in that when I was there in 1987, I was told by someone living there that only 5 years earlier, it was common to see Chinse there spitting on the floor in restaurants.

**Ronin** · 23-03-2015, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Latindancer

It was a backwater in that when I was there in 1987, I was told by someone living there that only 5 years earlier, it was common to see Chinse there spitting on the floor in restaurants.

Urinating in lifts and sticking chewing gum between the doors of the Metro trains were others that I have read about. The Chinese spitting everywhere still goes on in Mainland China as far as I know.

**Loy Toy** · 23-03-2015, 06:54 PM

Once again I have never spoken to a Singaporean of any ethnic denomination that had a bad word to say about the man this thread is about.

Now his son has taken some flack and I suppose when someone has had to fill such big boots they will trip over.

Let's leave this thread open for those that feel they feel the need to degrade someone on their passing.

Their ignorance and lack of understanding about Asian life will be there for us all to read.

**Loy Toy** · 23-03-2015, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Let's leave this thread open for those that feel they feel the need to degrade someone on their passing.

I see some of the shite posted by the Gent has been deleted.

I think he should book himself into an asylum and stop seeking one. A real cry for help.

The sausage smuggling saga has really hurt him.

**cyrille** · 23-03-2015, 08:09 PM

Are you? For somebody who has lived in Singapore, I find it amazing that you are so ignorant of the facts; look at the history (although I admit it is not always easy to find for some reason). Around 30 years ago Singapore was an under-developed backwater where the docks for example where rife with opium dens.

Singapore was a 'backwater rife with opium dens'...in 1985?

You are claiming gent is ignorant because he doesn't know this?

What utter cobblers.

**Loy Toy** · 23-03-2015, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

Singapore was a 'backwater rife with opium dens'...in 1985?

Opium usage was a part of Chinese life in fact across Asia before the powers at be made it illegal Cyrille.

Where are you going with this?
A debate you can never win?

**thaimeme** · 23-03-2015, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Oh, Look.

The internet experts coming out giving their advice about how to run a country with many millions, even a billion citizens.

Hang on........... Not advice, only criticism.

Are there any figures or data about how many people Lee Kuan Yew exterminated on his road to power?

Romantic notions of expertise....

We're fortunate to have numerous deluded souls amongst us.
Blessed.

**Loy Toy** · 23-03-2015, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by thaimeme

We're fortunate to have numerous deluded souls amongst us.

These PC nuts will quote canning for fuckers who have broken very clear laws and try to tell us they know about Singapore because they were English teachers earning nought to make ends meet.

Absolutely devastating for their self esteem.

Once again..............RIP to a globally respected man who did make things happen for his people.

Singapore would not be there without him.

**cyrille** · 23-03-2015, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by cyrille

Singapore was a 'backwater rife with opium dens'...in 1985?

Opium usage was a part of Chinese life in fact across Asia before the powers at be made it illegal Cyrille.

Where are you going with this?
A debate you can never win?

1985, lt.

1985.

Of course I know opium use was widespread in the fifties, and sixties and also not uncommon in the seventies.

It's utterly absurd to claim it was 'rife' in 1985.

I'm sure that the point of my post was apparent, frankly, to any practiced reader.

**cyrille** · 23-03-2015, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

These PC nuts will quote canning for fuckers who have broken very clear laws and try to tell us they know about Singapore because they were English teachers earning nought to make ends meet

So knowledgeable input on this topic is limited to certain income groups?

Now you are clearly just trolling and making a fool of yourself.

See ya.

**Ronin** · 23-03-2015, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

Are you? For somebody who has lived in Singapore, I find it amazing that you are so ignorant of the facts; look at the history (although I admit it is not always easy to find for some reason). Around 30 years ago Singapore was an under-developed backwater where the docks for example where rife with opium dens.

Singapore was a 'backwater rife with opium dens'...in 1985?

You are claiming gent is ignorant because he doesn't know this?

What utter cobblers.

Slight error it was the docks not the whole island.

**Cujo** · 23-03-2015, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by cyrille

Singapore was a 'backwater rife with opium dens'...in 1985?

Opium usage was a part of Chinese life in fact across Asia before the powers at be made it illegal Cyrille.

Where are you going with this?
A debate you can never win?

The powers that be in Singapore made it illegal in Singapore in 1943, a little over 30 years ago.
But I'm nit picking, this is interesting.
Opium & Opium Smoking | Infopedia

Opium & Opium Smoking

Opium (Papaver somniferum), contributed significantly to the general trade in Singapore's pioneering years. Encouraged by the British colonial government, it reaped heavy profits from opium licenses although many Chinese coolies succumbed to this vice as they tried to escape from the harsh reality of their mundane lives. Despite a ban of the narcotic and addictive drug in 1943, the opium trade continued clandestinely, so a death penalty was introduced for opium drug dealers and peddlers in 1989 to put a complete stop to it.

Opium smoking and trade
Early history
Opium smoking was an accepted social grace, by both the elite and the poor alike, in 19th century China. The practice of offering an opium pipe to a visitor was a simple one, akin to that of serving tea. When the Chinese migrated to the Straits settlements, the practice of opium smoking was brought over to Singapore. In 1848, the Chinese who made up the majority of the local population here amounted to 20,000 and during this time there were about 15,000 opium smokers who were mostly coolies, with the poor and the elderly making up a degree of addicts. With little family support, scarce entertainment and a difficult life of labour, opium smoking was a form of escape from their harsh reality, rather than as a form of social grace.

However, it proved an expensive and addictive habit. An increase in price of opium led to an escalation of crime rate. Many resorted to stealing, abduction and theft to support their habit. Although opium dens could only operate with licenses issued by the government, there were many other illegal operators with close ties to secret societies.

Opium dens and opium trade
The opium dens in town were mostly double storied brick houses while the rural areas had humble dens with attap rooftops. Popular areas where opium smoking dens were found were streets in Chinatown such as Pagoda Street and Trengganu Street. Places in Tanjong Pagar, the Rochor areas around Sungei Road, Duxton Street, Amoy Street and Beach Road were popular areas for opium dens even in the 1970s though opium was banned by the government here in 1943. Prior to 1943, these dens were legally required to close by 9pm. However, most smokers would retire to makeshift quarters inside these dens to continue their vice till midnight. The rooms inside were lined with wooden benches. Men in pairs shared a dim lamp between them and smoked leisurely whilst lying on the benches.

The opium trade fetched profitable returns considering the fact that the colonial government actually supported this practice and most smokers were already addicted to smoking opium. It made for such a roaring business that from 1898 to 1906, the average annual revenue from opium was 49% of the total income of the Straits Settlements. The government earned most of its revenue by franchising the opium trade to wealthy Chinese businessmen. Famous names in the opium trade include Lau Joon Tek, Cheang Sam Teo who made up the Lau-Cheang Syndicate, Heng Bun Soon, Tan Seng Poh and Cheang Hong Guan. Cheong Hong Lim and Tan Seng Poh were other well-known names who partnered with Tan Yeok Nee (b.1827 - d .21 May 1902, Saling, China) in spirit and opium farming. Opium or chandu, as it was known in Malay for cooked opium, was commonly inhaled or smoked. The ash or residue after opium was smoked for the first time was also recovered by shopkeepers and sold for a cheaper rate.

Singapore saw a rise of the opium syndicate in the mid-19th century as opium and spirit farms grew increasingly common here and in Johor, Melaka and Riau. Competition between Johor and Singapore's spirit and opium farmers resulted in frequent fights between syndicates. Violence between various secret societies or triads often arose from desire to control of the opium trade but the fights then spilled into the gambier and pepper trade as well. Sometime around 1866, Singapore and Johor opium farms united, putting the spirit farmers at a disadvantage. But by 1868, the fights that had simmered down erupted again for unknown reasons. Rental for opium farms here grew to an exorbitant 5,321,480 Spanish dollars in 1914 from 960,000 Spanish dollars in 1883. The collapse of Singapore's great syndicate headed by farmers Cheang Hong Lim, Tan Seng Poh and Tan Hiok Nee in the 1880s and the demise of the farming system before the turn of the 19th century saw significant changes in the local opium trade. Despite this, and with many changes and adaptations to the modus operandi of opium trade, it still continued well into the 20th century.

Later developments
At the turn of the 20th century, opium addiction was still widespread amongst the Chinese. In 1907 an Opium Commission was appointed to assess the extent of opium smoking and set up measures to end t this social menace. Prior to that, an anti-opium movement was started by prominent citizens of the settlements to take action against opium sale and use. The Opium Commission recommended a ban on opium sale to women and children under 18 years of age. The Chandu Revenue Ordinance was enacted in 1909 followed by the creation of the Monopolies Department a year later. The sale of opium now became controlled and in 1925, the government issued licences to opium smokers to use it in their own premises. Four years later supplies of opium were rationed and registration of opium smokers became compulsory. In 1933, the Chandu Revenue Ordinance was amended and opium possession was banned by those under 21 years of age. In 1934, opium possession was banned by anyone who did not have a medical practitioner's certification that they needed opium for health reasons. However, there were still supposedly 16,552 opium addicts in 1941. During 1942 to 1945, the period of the Japanese Occupation, the number of opium addicts rose to a high of 30,000.

The work of curbing this vice was helped through the efforts of social activists such as the Methodist philanthropist, Chen Su Lan who started the Anti-Opium Clinic in 1929. Although the anti-opium movement recognised the ill effects of the vice, the government did not begin to issue a prohibition until much later. It was during the Japanese Occupation on 10 November 1943, that opium sales were prohibited in the Straits Settlements. Still opium consumption continued clandestinely right into the late 20th century. The total number of drug addicts arrested, including opium addicts, rose from 4,730 in 1987 to 6,062 in 1988. Therefore the government amended the Misuse of Drugs Act in mid-1989 to include other forms of drugs such as hashish and cocaine apart from the existing heroin and morphine, so that those dealing or consuming these drugs can be dealt with existing laws. On 30 November 1989, the government passed a bill to extend the death penalty to cocaine, cannabis and opium traffickers including manufacturers, importers and exporters in an attempt to bring about a complete stop to drug and opium abuse in Singapore.

In 1998, 40 opium addicts were arrested in Singapore which is less than one per cent of the total 4,502 drug addicts arrested here. Heroin is the main drug scourge in Singapore, with four out of five addicts here hooked on it.

Infopedia - National Library Board, Singapore

**sabang** · 23-03-2015, 10:31 PM

An enligtened leader, who changed Singapore from a once sleazy and largely impoverished backwater to a modern State, who's citizens vie with the aussie's as the richest per capita in the world.

What's not to like? As a more anarchistic ex-HK'er, I suppose I coul;d pick some bones- to do with attempted social engineering, and censorship. Just a little too orderly, perhaps. But against the Testament of his achievement (ie, modern Singapore), piffling. RIP.

**Necron99** · 23-03-2015, 11:03 PM

A firm hand was probably needed and you can't argue with the result.
But they have held grip too long imho and should let the people speak.

**panama hat** · 24-03-2015, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

As a more anarchistic ex-HK'er, I suppose I coul;d pick some bones- to do with attempted social engineering, and censorship. Just a little too orderly, perhaps. But against the Testament of his achievement (ie, modern Singapore), piffling. RIP.

I've always enjoyed the HK/Sing banter . . . Having lived and worked in both I definitely prefer Singapore . . . Hongkies are far too close in mentality to Mainlanders and the city itself isn't as green as as the little red dot.

Not many Singaporeans not grieving

**baldrick** · 24-03-2015, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Not many Singaporeans not grieving

media corp would see to that

**Seekingasylum** · 24-03-2015, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

An enligtened leader, who changed Singapore from a once sleazy and largely impoverished backwater to a modern State, who's citizens vie with the aussie's as the richest per capita in the world.

What's not to like? As a more anarchistic ex-HK'er, I suppose I coul;d pick some bones- to do with attempted social engineering, and censorship. Just a little too orderly, perhaps. But against the Testament of his achievement (ie, modern Singapore), piffling. RIP.

Again, total and utter rubbish spoken by folk who evidently prefer the cliche of the vacuous journalist as typified by the BBC et al.

Singapore was not an impoverished backwater in 1965/66.It was a thriving port with a commercially vibrant City and an infrastructure plan that had already seen the beginning of the housing programme and land reclamation.
To have described Singapore as ever, being " sleazy" is frankly just plain idiotic. Sure there were prostitutes to be had in Bugis, Lavender and Arab Streets etc but so are they to be found in every British city and town today. Scarcely reason to label an entire city state as " sleazy" just because a sailor could,buy a fuck? Jesus Christ, if Singapore was sleazy just what the fuck would you call Bangkok?

The fact is, Singapore in 1965 was better developed than Bangkok is now, a darn sight better organised and a lot more pleasant than this shitty country.

Sleazy, impoverished backwater, my arse.

**sabang** · 24-03-2015, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

To have described Singapore as ever, being " sleazy" is frankly just plain idiotic.

You have just proven your ignorance and naivete'. Singapore was once very sleazy indeed, and a major drug nexus. Heard about the 'dying rooms'- where hopeless opium addicts would go, pledge their material posessions to the owner, and stay there in squalor until they died (drugs provided).

No, didn't think so.

Perhaps, when it comes down to it, your discomfiture stems from envy- that they were able to achieve something, from bootstraps up, that our society could hardly even dream about.

**nidhogg** · 24-03-2015, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

To have described Singapore as ever, being " sleazy" is frankly just plain idiotic.

You have just proven your ignorance and naivete'. Singapore was once very sleazy indeed, and a major drug nexus. Heard about the 'dying rooms'- where hopeless opium addicts would go, pledge their material posessions to the owner, and stay there in squalor until they died (drugs provided).

No, didn't think so.

Perhaps, when it comes down to it, your discomfiture stems from envy- that they were able to achieve something, from bootstraps up, that our society could hardly even dream about.

Its just the gent being a chickenhead as usual.

**Little Chuchok** · 24-03-2015, 12:49 PM

Two friends of mine...One a Singaporean Chinese, the other, Singaporean Indian were both talking about some of the tough laws that they have(This was about a year ago)

They both came to the same conclusion.....Without Lee, it would have been a shite place to live.Asians need a firm hand, otherwise it all turns to crap.

Thread: Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew dies at 91

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