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  1. #1

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    Dumb Thai Learns about the real world

    Mongkol says US trip fails to win much support for compulsory licensing



    Public Health Minister Mongkol na Songkhla Tuesday said his trip to the United States did not win much support for Thailand's move to enforce compulsory licensing on medicines.

    Mongkol said US Commerce Secretary Carlos M Gutierrez and senior officials at the US Commerce Department "seriously asked" Thailand to stop the compulsory licenses.

    However, Mongkol said his team had opportunities to explain why the compulsory licenses were necessary for lifesaving drugs to United States Trade Representative, which has recently downgraded Thailand's trade status to "Priority Watch List" citing widespread intellectual-property violations.

    Mongkol said US Representative, Henry A Waxman expressed support behind Thai Government's policy to enhance poor people's access to drugs.

    The Nation


    COMPULSORY LICENSING
    Drop drug policy, US tells Thais


    Gutierrez takes aggressive stance


    Efforts by Public Health Minister Mongkol na Songkhla and Thai officials to clarify Thailand's need to invoke compulsory licensing of key drugs - including one for poor people with HIV or Aids - have failed to impress the United States.

    Yesterday the US Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez demanded that Thailand abandon moves for compulsory licensing of several key drugs.

    Speaking from Washington DC via a teleconference, Mongkol said the talks with Gutierrez and his team on Monday, local time, ended on a negative note, as Gutierrez took an aggressive stance and acted as a representative of US drug firms to demand compulsory licensing moves be cancelled.

    "We achieved nothing. From now on, the Commerce, Foreign Affairs and Public Health ministries will go ahead with the CL process," he said.

    Carlos Gutierrez was one of three US key officials Mongkol and his team discussed the issue with. The other two were Ambassador John Veroneau, deputy chief of US Trade Representative (USTR), and Henry Waxman, a representative of the Democrat Party in California and chairman of the Committee on Examination of the Government's Performance.

    Mongkol said only the talk with Waxman produced a positive result, as the latter promised to support Thailand's access to expensive medications, while Veroneau had just asked about the rationales in invoking compulsory licensing.

    Vichai Chokewiwat, chairman of Government Pharmaceutical Organisation's board, who went with Mongkol, said that while Veroneau of the USTR had no doubts about legal aspects of Thailand's use of compulsory licensing, he wanted Thailand to think carefully again.

    Vichai said he saw a little progress from the trip, but at least Thai representatives had the chance to explain its moves to both the legislative and executive branches of the US.

    Moreover, he said, a good sign was that at least one drug firm supported Thailand.

    Vichai said representatives of the California-based Gilead Sciences told Mongkol that the company had explained to the USTR that the use of compulsory licensing in Thailand did not effect the research and development or investments by the company.

    The health authorities' trip to talk to US representatives from various sectors was scheduled after Thailand was strongly criticised by the American media and some Congress members for its use of compulsory licensing.

    Mongkol invoked the move to allow cheap generic versions of two HIV/Aids treatments Lopinavir/Ritronavir and Efavirenz, plus a heart disease drug Clopidogrel to be imported for the Thai market. Shortly after, the USTR placed Thailand on its Priority Watch List, and claimed Thailand did not provide adequate protection or enforcement of intellectual property rights.
    But the move won support from former US president Bill Clinton, plus other developing countries such as Brazil and the Philippines, which are now considering following Thailand's lead.


    Duangkamol Sajirawattanakul
    The Nation

  2. #2
    ding ding ding
    Spin's Avatar
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    Thailand is not a poor third world country and it should pay the going rate for these drugs IMHO.
    Theres plenty of cash flowing into Thailand to pay for this medecine, the fact is they just dont want to, driven by the Thai need to take and give nothing in return.

    Can anybody give me an example of any product or service that Thailand has invented and then provided for free or at a reduced cost to other poorer countries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somchai
    "We achieved nothing. From now on, the Commerce, Foreign Affairs and Public Health ministries will go ahead with the CL process," he said.
    And what did they expect to achieve? did somchai think America was going to say, "Look Somchai, we know Taiwan is a poor country and we are sorry for your sad situation, so I tell you what we will give you the stuff for free."

    NB; The Taiwan bit was on purpose as America isn't to good at geography and stuff like that

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    NB; The Taiwan bit was on purpose as America isn't to good at geography and stuff like that
    I think they'd likely call it Siam and ask if Anna was well.

  5. #5

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    They probably think Yul Brinner is the King aswell, hell they had Ronald Reagen as President, Arnold Swarzennegger as Governor? of California, Clint Eastwood as Mayor of Carmel, yep they got to reckon its Yul

  6. #6
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    i'm a juz waiting fer some merkin wade into this thread both fists flying moaning abt how we all hate merkins blah blah blah!

  7. #7
    better looking than Ned
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    Anyone seen the movie Borat ?
    Fok some of them yanks are thick

  8. #8
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    personaly i agree with Thailands stance on this, these large american drug companies make billions of $ profits every year, all they are interested in is maximising profits for shareholders, these are not ethical companies.
    Also i keep banging my head as i fall off my chair laughing everytime i hear about the R&D arguement. These companies spend lots more money on advertising each year than they do on R&D, also a lot of R&D is government funded.

  9. #9
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    I agree with the drug companies' stance on this. Thais have to realise that if you want something, you have to work for it or buy it and follow procedures.

  10. #10
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    The Thais don't want the drugs for free, they just want them at affordable prices.

  11. #11
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    The usual merkins indulging in Thai-bashing.

    The country is struggling to provide health-care for the needy, why should they pay exorbitant prices to make the big drug companies richer?

  12. #12
    たのむよ。
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin View Post
    Thailand is not a poor third world country and it should pay the going rate for these drugs IMHO.
    Theres plenty of cash flowing into Thailand to pay for this medecine, the fact is they just dont want to, driven by the Thai need to take and give nothing in return.

    Can anybody give me an example of any product or service that Thailand has invented and then provided for free or at a reduced cost to other poorer countries?
    Smiling?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    I agree with the drug companies' stance on this. Thais have to realise that if you want something, you have to work for it or buy it and follow procedures.
    I hope you have a valid copy of windows with no copied software and no downloaded films on it then

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    ^ But, but, but that is different..
    Do as I teach and not as I do

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rigger
    Anyone seen the movie Borat ? Fok some of them yanks are thick
    I'm wondersing how the guy didn't get stuck in jail for some of the stunts he pulled.

    I particularly like the naked wrestling with his obese director in the middle of a conference.....turned me on

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickA
    I hope you have a valid copy of windows with no copied software and no downloaded films on it then
    I do actually on my laptop.

    At the end of the day, Thailand approached this in the wrong way. Instead of approaching Abbot and following procedures, they just went in with the compulsory licensing malarkey. Fuck 'em.

  17. #17
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    i think they approached it in the right way, as now the drug companies are approaching Thailand and offering them drugs at cheaper prices as they are afraid they will do the same to their drugs.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy
    i think they approached it in the right way
    No. They didn't. They went straight to the CL instead of following standard procedure.

  19. #19
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    and standard procedure is what!?? the drug companies want the maximum profits for their investments, naturally. They have, howevr, developed some drugs that are sorely needed in third world countries to combat AIDS and other serious illnesses

    Thailand does not have a health service that is "free at point of service", and most Thais do not earn enough to buy the drugs at their inflated prices. So many people have been dying because they cannot afford the drugs.

    There are three ways out of this impasse:

    1. The government should buy the drugs at the inflated prices and then give them to the patients. Thailand cannot really afford to do this as their economy is not very strong (they are still classed as a third world country)

    2. The goverment can unilaterally declare that the drugs can be made in Thailand and sold to the patients at affordable prices.

    3. The drug companies could cut their prices to cost and supply third world countries

    Thailand has opted for 2.; hopefully this will lead to 3.
    I have reported your post

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    Instead of approaching Abbot and following procedures, they just went in with the compulsory licensing malarkey. Fuck 'em
    Fuck Abbot. They're just another gangster/drug dealer with government backing. Th e Us government is by the coporations, of the corporations & for the corporation. They are protecting their all expense paid Junkets and PAC funds.
    Thailands move on teh drugs was the right thing to do in this situation. THe companies can forego the (albeit smaller) profits available by trying to gouge the market for all it's worth, or it can provide good quality medicines at fair prices.

    I don't think this is a case so much of a Stupid Thai learning about the real world, as it is Greedy companies and their paid lackeys being told to GO FUCK THEMSELVES.

    While I think the Thai government could give lessons in "shooting oneself in the foot." I do not think this is a time where they are demonstrating that capability. Thailand no longer needs the US nearly as much as it used to. Admittedly, neither does the US need Thailand.

    The US has forced it's anti-drug policies down the throat of every nation it could possibly influence, It has forced it "intellectual property rights" down the throat of every nation could. It has invaded countries without just cause and interfered in or influenced smaller countries foreign policies. Almost all have been merely actions or policies designed to protect the powerful corporations with healthy lobbies in D.C. These actions have done much to diminish the influence and reputation of the US. As a US citizen I am disappointed to see the influence wielded by my country diminished, it is simply being diminished by the avarice of the corporations and their bought & paid-for representatives in search of the almighty dollar. And the more dollars they seem to acquire the less the fucking thing is worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    Thailand has opted for 2.; hopefully this will lead to 3.
    Let's hope so. If more smaller, third-world and developing countries show this attitude to the avarice of the large corporations they might just get the message and behave accordingly. Or, maybe GWB's bosses will find the primarily Muslim inspired unrest in the south a threat to "National Security?"
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty -- T. Jefferson


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    Thailand cannot really afford to do this as their economy is not very strong (they are still classed as a third world country)
    "Third world" is an inaccurate, outdated term. It's a developing country about to become a newly industrialised nation, is one description, there are others.

  22. #22

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    Mongkol says US talks improve

    Mongkol says US talks improve

    Washington DC - A second-day of negotiation in the US capital by Minister of Public Health Mongkol Na Songkhla and his team to clarify to the United States the need of Thailand to issue compulsory licensing (CL) status for three key drugs has reportedly produced fruitful results.

    Participating US business leaders and politicians concerned with the pharmaceuticals business now better understand the thinking behind the Thai actions, Dr Mongkol claimed.

    Interviewed via a teleconference at the Thai embassy here, Dr Mongkol said his efforts to clarify the
    matter with the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the US-Asean Business Council, US Chamber of Commerce, Merck Co., and US senators and representatives on Tuesday, the second and last day of his mission, had made impressive progress.

    Unlike day one of the negotiations, the discussion moved in a constructive direction, Dr Mongkol said, as all parties found that information on many issues obtained by the US authorities, was inaccurate.

    Included are criticisms that Thailand intended to apply CL to a wide variety of medications, and the allegation that Thailand had never negotiated nor had ever an intention to negotiate with the US pharmaceutical companies.

    The Thai public health minister said that the new discussion made all parties concerned with the compulsory licensing issue to understand the relevant facts more clearly.

    "We consider today's negotiation as being very successful," Dr Mongkol explained. "It gives us hope that US-Thailand relations will improve and we will be able to work on other matters smoothly.

    "Frankly speaking, it is a successful day. I feel very happy and relaxed from concerns for many days whether we can weather these obstacles," he said. "Today, I would say I can sleep happily tonight."

    Dr Mongkol said he had an opportunity to meet and discuss with executives of Merck, one of the world's leading pharmaceutical companies, about appropriate prices of Aids drugs.

    He had met the executives earlier this month when the latter offered a final price of the drugs at 726 baht
    per patient per month.

    The Thai public health minister said the company's executives had the idea of working together with
    the Public Health Ministry, which is considered a constructive development.

    A working committee would be set up to discuss the cooperation in giving the poor, particularly children contracting Aids from their mothers, a greater access to Efavirenz, one of the key Aids drugs.

    The discussion is expected to be concluded within the next two months. Should the talks produce fruitful results, the Thai poor would be given access to buy the most effective Aids drug at an unprecedented low price. (TNA)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    Thailand cannot really afford to do this as their economy is not very strong (they are still classed as a third world country)
    "Third world" is an inaccurate, outdated term. It's a developing country about to become a newly industrialised nation, is one description, there are others.

    yeah yeah, PC semantics

    put "developing country" instead of "third world" everywhere you see it then it will mean exactly the same as before

    the thing is, you know what I meant, so no point in quibbling

  24. #24
    or TizYou?
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    How can a country going backwards be called "developing"?

  25. #25
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    developing into a backward country

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