Thread: Rejecting Putin: RT reporter resigns on air

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by buriramboy

As always it's all about oil and gas when the US gets involved, shale gas this time as Crimea has loads of it and US firms have invested heavily in the area.

An if Ukraine becomes energy self-sufficient, Gazprom loses a big customer.

competently went over your head,

Without Crimea and its energy resources, Ukraine will collapse. Why do you think they are all getting excited over this ? for human right and the beauty of Democracy ?

Putin is playing the EU and the US perfectly, demonstrating to the world that the current Ukraine government is "bought for" by the west and they are shitting their pants now because they are going to go bankrupt once Crimea leaves Ukraine, and nobody in EU or the US want to pay the price of that or bail out Ukraine.

It's a complete cluster fuck that only the EU and the Americans have the secret for,

they need to start to be reasonable and fully support Putin, and tell the current illegal temporary government to fuck off or be deported to Siberia. We are not there yet but might soon, or else it will be a civil war promoted by the west.

Originally Posted by Neverna

She's an American. Nuff said.

Exactly, and not our affair either.

The US has been looking for every opportunity to put Russia and Putin down from Georgia, Syrian and well before. And a great diversion from the US's own shit.

Originally Posted by taxexile

when the reader of the news makes herself the main story then one has to question her motives for this.

Fox News intern?

Feeble innit

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by buriramboy

As always it's all about oil and gas when the US gets involved, shale gas this time as Crimea has loads of it and US firms have invested heavily in the area.

An if Ukraine becomes energy self-sufficient, Gazprom loses a big customer.

competently went over your head,

Without Crimea and its energy resources, Ukraine will collapse. Why do you think they are all getting excited over this ? for human right and the beauty of Democracy ?

Putin is playing the EU and the US perfectly, demonstrating to the world that the current Ukraine government is "bought for" by the west and they are shitting their pants now because they are going to go bankrupt once Crimea leaves Ukraine, and nobody in EU or the US want to pay the price of that or bail out Ukraine.

It's a complete cluster fuck that only the EU and the Americans have the secret for,

they need to start to be reasonable and fully support Putin, and tell the current illegal temporary government to fuck off or be deported to Siberia. We are not there yet but might soon, or else it will be a civil war promoted by the west.

What are you banging on about now Buttplug? You still haven't told me about these magical "conditions" you made up to claim Russia is entitled to invade Crimea.

Now let's get it straight: Crimea is sovereign Ukraine territory. If Ukraine develops its energy resources, it won't be buying from Gazprom, and Putin doesn't get all his pension fund.

Yes, Russia might annex Crimea, and yes, Europe might not like it.

That does not contradict the facts, moron.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

an history book

Originally Posted by Butterfly

retard

Talk about being a retard.

Having trouble with the English language as usual?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by buriramboy

As always it's all about oil and gas when the US gets involved, shale gas this time as Crimea has loads of it and US firms have invested heavily in the area.

An if Ukraine becomes energy self-sufficient, Gazprom loses a big customer.

competently went over your head,

Without Crimea and its energy resources, Ukraine will collapse. Why do you think they are all getting excited over this ? for human right and the beauty of Democracy ?



Putin is playing the EU and the US perfectly, demonstrating to the world that the current Ukraine government is "bought for" by the west and they are shitting their pants now because they are going to go bankrupt once Crimea leaves Ukraine, and nobody in EU or the US want to pay the price of that or bail out Ukraine.

It's a complete cluster fuck that only the EU and the Americans have the secret for,

they need to start to be reasonable and fully support Putin, and tell the current illegal temporary government to fuck off or be deported to Siberia. We are not there yet but might soon, or else it will be a civil war promoted by the west.

What are you banging on about now Buttplug? You still haven't told me about these magical "conditions" you made up to claim Russia is entitled to invade Crimea.

Now let's get it straight: Crimea is sovereign Ukraine territory. If Ukraine develops its energy resources, it won't be buying from Gazprom, and Putin doesn't get all his pension fund.

Yes, Russia might annex Crimea, and yes, Europe might not like it.

That does not contradict the facts, moron.

He is clueless.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by buriramboy

As always it's all about oil and gas when the US gets involved, shale gas this time as Crimea has loads of it and US firms have invested heavily in the area.

An if Ukraine becomes energy self-sufficient, Gazprom loses a big customer.

And if the EU imposes sanctions on Russian companies or if Russia cuts off gas supplies, the USA will come to the rescue to supply it's own shale gas. (I'm sure Obama didn't manufacture this situation just to benefit US companies).

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Crimea is sovereign Ukraine territory.

Yes, but it is also 80% Russian, and a major (and strategic) Russian military installation- in short, Putin dictates the facts on the ground there. Russia is, of course, in violation of international law- although post referendum (expected to be a virtual whitewash in favor of joining or rejoining Russia), this will be murkier. Sanctions are all the indignant West has got, and even they are a double edged sword- given the critical role Russia plays in EU energy supplies. I doubt the EU will be as bolshie as the US in pursuing much more than token sanctions.

.....buncha bullshit.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Crimea is sovereign Ukraine territory.

Crimea is an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine and has its own parliament its own constitution. It's affiliated with Ukraine but not fully sovereign territory, more of a pimple on Ukraine's ass. Crimea and Ukraine have been at loggerheads pretty much forever, their relationship has always been fraught.

Crimea only became part of the Ukraine when Krushchev gave it to Ukraine as a 300th birthday present in the 1950s.

Under the assumption that the Ukraine would never be anything like a truly independent entity because the USSR would never cease to exist. Ukraine is itself a cobbled-together entity that previously didn't exist ("Ukraine" means something like "at the border") that came to include parts of Poland and Carpathian Ruthenia sucked up by Stalin after WWII (now one of the hotbeds of anti-Russian sentiment). As Jack Matlock points out in the essay I posted, "The fact is, Ukraine is a state but not yet a nation. In the 22-plus years of its independence, it has not yet found a leader who can unite its citizens in a shared concept of Ukrainian identity. . .The current territory of the Ukrainian state was assembled, not by Ukrainians themselves but by outsiders, and took its present form following the end of World War II. To think of it as a traditional or primordial whole is absurd."

Originally Posted by chitown

He is clueless.

coming from a provincial American redneck like yourself, I find this a bit rich

Originally Posted by robuzo

it has not yet found a leader who can unite its citizens in a shared concept of Ukrainian identity.

No kidding-



BBC News - Ukraine crisis in maps

This analysis pulls no punches. Credible? -

The entire story that the presstitutes have told about the Ukraine is a propaganda production. The presstitutes told us that the deposed president, Viktor Yanukovych, ordered snipers to shoot protesters. On the basis of these false reports, Washington’s stooges, who comprise the existing non-government in Kiev, have issued arrest orders for Yanukovych and intend for him to be tried in an international court. In an intercepted telephone call between EU foreign affairs minister Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister Urmas Paet who had just returned from Kiev, Paet reports: “There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition.” Paet goes on to report that “all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides . . . and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened.” Ashton, absorbed with EU plans to guide reforms in Ukraine and to prepare the way for the IMF to gain control over economic policy, was not particularly pleased to hear Paet’s report that the killings were an orchestrated provocation. You can listen to the conversation between Paet and Ashton here: http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

What has happened in Ukraine is that Washington plotted against and overthrew an elected legitimate government and then lost control to neo-nazis who are threatening the large Russian population in southern and eastern Ukraine, provinces that formerly were part of Russia. These threatened Russians have appealed for Russia’s help, and just like the Russians in South Ossetia, they will receive Russia’s help.

The Obama regime and its presstitutes will continue to lie about everything.

Propaganda Rules The News --Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org



Washington’s Ukrainian stooges lost control of the protests to organized and armed ultra-nationalists. These groups, whose roots go back to those who fought for Hitler during World War 2, engaged in words and deeds that sent southern and eastern Ukraine clamoring to be returned to Russia where they resided prior to the 1950s when the Soviet communist party stuck them into Ukraine.

At this time of writing it looks like Crimea has seceded from Ukraine. Washington and its NATO puppets can do nothing but bluster and threaten sanctions. The White House Fool has demonstrated the impotence of the “US sole superpower” by issuing sanctions against unknown persons, whoever they are, responsible for returning Crimea to Russia, where it existed for about 200 years before, according to Solzhenitsyn, a drunk Khrushchev of Ukrainian ethnicity moved southern and eastern Russian provinces into Ukraine. Having observed the events in western Ukraine, those Russian provinces want to go back home where they belong, just as South Ossetia wanted nothing to do with Georgia.

Washington’s stooges in Kiev can do nothing about Crimea except bluster. Under the Russian-Ukraine agreement, Russia is permitted 25,000 troops in Crimea. The US/EU media’s deploring of a “Russian invasion of 16,000 troops” is either total ignorance or complicity in Washington’s lies. Obviously, the US/EU media is corrupt. Only a fool would rely on their reports. Any media that would believe anything Washington says after George W. Bush and Dick Cheney sent Secretary of State Colin Powell to the UN to peddle the regime’s lies about “Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,” which the weapons inspectors had told the White House did not exist, is clearly a collection of bought-and-paid for whores.

In the former Russian provinces of eastern Ukraine, Putin’s low-key approach to the strategic threat that Washington has brought to Russia has given Washington a chance to hold on to a major industrial complex that serves the Russian economy and military. The people themselves in eastern Ukraine are in the streets demanding separation from the unelected government that Washington’s coup has imposed in Kiev. Washington, realizing that its incompetence has lost Crimea, had its Kiev stooges appoint Ukrainian oligarchs, against whom the Maiden protests were partly directed, to governing positions in eastern Ukraine cities. These oligarchs have their own private militias in addition to the police and any Ukrainian military units that are still functioning. The leaders of the protesting Russians are being arrested and disappeared. Washington and its EU puppets, who proclaim their support for self-determination, are only for self-determination when it can be orchestrated in their favor. Therefore, Washington is busy at work suppressing self-determination in eastern Ukraine.

This is a dilemma for Putin. His low-key approach has allowed Washington to seize the initiative in eastern Ukraine. The oligarchs Taruta and Kolomoyskiy have been put in power in Donetsk and Dnipropetrovsk, and are carrying out arrests of Russians and committing unspeakable crimes, but you will never hear of it from the US presstitutes. Washington’s strategy is to arrest and deep-six the leaders of the secessionists so that there no authorities to request Putin’s intervention.

If Putin has drones, he has the option of taking out Taruta and Kolomoyskiy. If Putin lets Washington retain the Russian provinces of eastern Ukraine, he will have demonstrated a weakness that Washington will exploit. Washington will exploit the weakness to the point that Washington forces Putin to war.

The war will be nuclear.


The Looting Of Ukraine Has Begun - PaulCraigRoberts.org

I wouldn't call that credible, but one possible response I've seen posited in Foreign Policy is using what is happening in Ukraine as an excuse/reason to bring Georgia and Moldova into NATO. If so, hello Cold War II- this time with a better chance than the first one had of getting hot (after about '54 anyway).

Another possible response I've seen, also in the same issue of FP (by Tom Ricks, of all people, who had so far done a credible job of appearing sane) is to invade Syria.

And those two are from the serious people at FP. . .

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Crimea is sovereign Ukraine territory.

Crimea is an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine and has its own parliament its own constitution. It's affiliated with Ukraine but not fully sovereign territory, more of a pimple on Ukraine's ass.

Nice attempt at fudging, but wrong. Crimea's parliament and consitution are subject to Ukrainian law.

Crimea is sovereign Ukrainian territory. If you are struggling to understand that basic concept, then look at the Budapest memorandum.

In it Russia accepted that Crimea is part of Ukraine, and they signed the fucking thing.

If it was good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for you?

It is unequivocal:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by robuzo

it has not yet found a leader who can unite its citizens in a shared concept of Ukrainian identity.

No kidding-



BBC News - Ukraine crisis in maps

Perhaps they should divide Ukraine into East and West Ukraine. How about calling them Eukraine for the west and Ruskraine for the east?

It will probably end up like South Ossetia, an independent "republic" recognised by a handful of countries.

And everyone will go back to whatever they were doing.

Originally Posted by wasabi

The rock of Gibraltar

Originally Posted by wasabi

Falklands

forgot to say
Gibraltarians have had at least 1 referendum where they voted to stay British.
And The Falklanders have had a referendum and they also voted to remain British.

Looks increasingly likely that the Crimean people will vote to go with Russia.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Originally Posted by wasabi

The rock of Gibraltar

Originally Posted by wasabi

Falklands

forgot to say
Gibraltarians have had at least 1 referendum where they voted to stay British.
And The Falklanders have had a referendum and they also voted to remain British.

Looks increasingly likely that the Crimean people will vote to go with Russia.

Cornwall will be getting ideas.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Cornwall will be getting ideas.

think they have already tried.
Scotland are going for it.
N.Ireland was flooded with the Protestants from Britain by the English
giving them 2-1 majority over the native.
they have little chance for independence.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Almost certain they won't in a free and fair referendum.

You're way off the mark there.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Putin would not use that level of aggression to occupy the area

Putin has the ability to oppose the West with a good chance of a fair fight unlike so many other small countries.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

given the choice to join Russia or Europe they chose Europe every day

Sure, but given the choice of becoming a western pawn or a Russian outpost they know which way to vote.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Almost certain they won't in a free and fair referendum.

it will be well monitored by the west.

no doubt some will press for the corruption ticket.