Portugal Cops Reopen Madeleine McCann Case

**patsycat** · 11-09-2007, 12:47 AM

How can those people sleep at night? They even went to see the pope pleading for the safe return of their wee girl...

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 11-09-2007, 08:23 AM

Any intelligent observer must conclude it was the parents what done her in.

I and many other Teakdoor.com members have an alibi - we were online reading 'Stiffy The Ponk' at the time.

**baldrick** · 11-09-2007, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

If the kid had a face like a butcher's dog, none of Fleet Street would have the slightest interest in her.

ugly victims get no sympathy.

if the australian bogan shrapnel corby was a doughy looking wench , no-one would have given a shit.

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 11-09-2007, 11:18 AM

^Like Ian Huntley's double murders of the Soham girls.

One was cute, the other looked a bit plain. .....and if they'd been wearing Plymouth Argyle shirts in the photos rather than Man U shirts, I don't think the press would have been interested.

**DrB0b** · 11-09-2007, 11:29 AM

Experts dispute claim that DNA shows body of missing Madeleine had been in boot of hire car

· Sample is a full match to girl, police sources claim
· Prosecutor to decide on action towards McCanns

Giles Tremlett, Brendan de Beer in Praia da Luz
Tuesday September 11, 2007
The Guardian

Fresh controversy erupted in the Madeleine McCann investigation last night as Portuguese police sources suggested that DNA tests proved that the missing four-year-old's body had been in the boot of a car hired by her parents 25 days after she disappeared.The tests, conducted by the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, are said to have found a "full match" with Madeleine's DNA in the car driven by Kate and Gerry McCann, who were last week declared suspects in their daughter's disappearance.

Police told Portugal's SIC television that two out of three test results on samples found in the boot of the Renault Scenic showed they undoubtedly belonged to Madeleine, who went missing from a Praia da Luz holiday resort on May 3.Sky News quoted its own sources as saying that not only were the DNA tests an almost perfect match with Madeleine but they also were extremely unlikely to have been old specimens transferred through contact with luggage, toys, clothing or any other means - a claim disputed by British forensic scientists.

Professor Mark Jobling, from the University of Leicester, said the results did not mean Madeleine's body had necessarily been in the boot. "DNA evidence shows that material from a specific person was or is at a particular place but how it got there is another matter," he said.

Meanwhile Portugal's assistant attorney general confirmed that British officers could be called upon to question the McCanns on behalf of their Portuguese colleagues.

"This is the most usual procedure when people involved in certain investigations in Portugal are outside the country," Antonio Cluny told Publico newspaper. "That is what we will possibly see the next time the police or the prosecutor's office wish to talk to the couple."

This would only happen if Portuguese detectives had additional questions for them and the McCanns broke a pledge to return if asked.
Police spokesman Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa confirmed that the McCanns' return to Britain would make the investigation more difficult if police or prosecutors wished to talk to them. "If new questioning is required then the fact that the parents have returned to England would create difficulties," he said.

As the couple, back home in Leicestershire yesterday, took advice from London law firm Kingsley Napley, police and social services representatives held talks about the case.

Portuguese police failed to deliver papers to prosecutors in Portimao, the main town close to Praia da Luz, yesterday and were expected to do so today, Publico reported on its website. It was unclear how long it would take the main prosecutor, Joao Cunha de Magalhaes, to decide whether further action is needed against the McCanns.

Repercussions from the case were spreading across Portugal yesterday.
The head of the Algarve's tourism industry association, Eliderico Viegas, criticised the police and the Portuguese government for the way they handled the British media. "The police were not prepared to cope with this," he told the Diario de Noticias newspaper.

The British lawyers
Michael Caplan QC and his colleagues at Kingsley Napley, the law firm called in by Kate and Gerry McCann, are used to high-profile cases. Among their former clients are "rogue trader" Nick Leeson and Chilean ex-dictator Augusto Pinochet, and they advised Tony Blair before he appeared at the Hutton inquiry.
Mr Caplan is a behind-the-scenes operator who largely shuns the media. While working, successfully, to prevent General Pinochet's extradition to Spain to face torture charges, his only comment on defending a man accused of such deeds was: "I have a duty to a client, just as a surgeon does to a patient." He became a QC in 2002, only the seventh solicitor to be granted the honour.
Angus McBride, the other partner in the firm advising the McCanns, has built up a particular expertise in "managing and protecting the reputation of individuals and companies subject to either media or criminal investigation", according to the firm's website.

He represented actor Chris Langham on charges of downloading child porn, and has acted for a number of footballers in criminal investigations, including the two Premiership players accused of rape at a hotel in 2003.
Clare Dyer
Experts dispute claim that DNA shows body of missing Madeleine had been in boot of hire car | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Sky News quoted its own sources as saying that not only were the DNA tests an almost perfect match with Madeleine but they also were extremely unlikely to have been old specimens transferred through contact with luggage, toys, clothing or any other means - a claim disputed by British forensic scientists. Professor Mark Jobling, from the University of Leicester, said the results did not mean Madeleine's body had necessarily been in the boot. "DNA evidence shows that material from a specific person was or is at a particular place but how it got there is another matter," he said.

This seems to be contradictory.

**dirtydog** · 11-09-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

not only were the DNA tests an almost perfect match with Madeleine

If it was from her wouldn't it be a perfect match? and not just almost, her parents and siblings would be almost most likely.

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 11-09-2007, 01:13 PM

We share a lot of our DNA with fruit flies. (According to a scientifically authentic movie that I saw entitled, 'The Fly')

It could be a fly got into the boot and had a nosebleed.

**William** · 11-09-2007, 01:21 PM

sorry guys, I'm a little simple so can someone help me out with a question I have:

I read somewhere that all 3 of the children were concieved via IVF treatment. Also, the family are refusing to disclose whether or not the eggs and sperm of both the parents were used in the IVF treatment.

If it's the case that neither the sperm nor eggs of the parents were used, how would they ascertain the DNA of the child? Would it be as simple as giving a hair on a comb (which I assume it would be)?

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

It could be a fly got into the boot and had a nosebleed.

25 day old bodies dont bleed. It must be hair or skin particles.

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by William

read somewhere that all 3 of the children were concieved via IVF treatment. Also, the family are refusing to disclose whether or not the eggs and sperm of both the parents were used in the IVF treatment.

Another complication. I thought that I read somewhere that hair had to be taken off a living body to extract DNA.

That may not be right, though.

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 11-09-2007, 01:57 PM

^Hair is dead cells anyway (the live bit is the follicle)...like fingernails. it shouldnt make any difference if the subject is dead or alive.

If they're alleged to have accidentally poisoned her, I can't see why there should be blood in the car.

**kayo** · 11-09-2007, 01:59 PM

did they say they found blood?

I thought they only said they found DNA.

**William** · 11-09-2007, 02:01 PM

^they said "bodily fluid" - whatever that means

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 02:39 PM

Bodily fluids would be saliva, clear plasma, vomit, urine or faeces.
Something that doctors would be well aware would leave evidence.

Even so, 25 days later the body would be all but decomposed. I just can't see parents doing that.

Where did they keep it? Why didn't anyone smell it? Why didn't the hotel cleaners find it?

^Probably a dirty nappy from one of the twins had been in there.

**ChiangMai noon** · 11-09-2007, 02:43 PM

^
you definitely can't believe they could possibly be involved can you Lily?
why?

**Marmite the Dog** · 11-09-2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

Bodily fluids would be saliva, clear plasma, vomit, urine or faeces.

What about snot?

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 02:48 PM

^No, I just cant see how they could have done it.

I cant see that they would be keeping the spotlight on themselves, if they had, but most of all, I cant see how it was possible for them to do it.

Also gut instinct, I think.

I think these people have had their worst nightmare come true, when the little girl was taken and now it must seem unbelievable to them.

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Lily

Bodily fluids would be saliva, clear plasma, vomit, urine or faeces.

What about snot?

Yes, semen and vaginal fluids also, just in case you were going to ask.

**Marmite the Dog** · 11-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

Yes, semen and vaginal fluids also, just in case you were going to ask.

I wouldn't be that crude.

**William** · 11-09-2007, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

^No, I just cant see how they could have done it.

I cant see that they would be keeping the spotlight on themselves, if they had, but most of all, I cant see how it was possible for them to do it.

Also gut instinct, I think.

I think these people have had their worst nightmare come true, when the little girl was taken and now it must seem unbelievable to them.

I can see how they could have done it, but not how (as in practically) they could have. The few days following her reported disappearence, they were always in the media spot-light - and have remaind so.

What I'm less sure of is whether or not they might have know (or thought they knew) someone who could have done it.

**Lily** · 11-09-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by William

I can see how they could have done it, but not how (as in practically) they could have. The few days following her reported disappearence, they were always in the media spot-light - and have remaind so.

Actually, that is what I meant. The mechanics of it.

Some people have suggested that she was dead long before that, but they were holidaying with other people who had kids. They would ask where she was. They couldn't have killed her before and got rid of the body. It just doesn't seem possible to me.

I think the media can do terrible things to people at times too.

**ChiangMai noon** · 11-09-2007, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

I think the media can do terrible things to people at times too

yet in this case, they have been nothing but supportive.
i can't remember such an outpouring of grief for a family.
the media has helped it continue.

I am not judging until there are more facts, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that she was accidentally killed and they panicked.

**William** · 11-09-2007, 03:09 PM

^ Max Clifford, who I have no time for, wrote a good article on the damage the press can do to a reputation.

I'm happy for them to quiz the parents. I think the parents should be too (if they did nothing wrong). But not at the cost of not looking at possible other alternative theories

**William** · 11-09-2007, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by Lily

I think the media can do terrible things to people at times too

yet in this case, they have been nothing but supportive.
i can't remember such an outpouring of grief for a family.
the media has helped it continue.

I am not judging until there are more facts, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that she was accidentally killed and they panicked.

This started to make a little more sense last night when it was suggested that there may have been adult drugs in the Apt. Not that they gave the kid the drugs, but that the kid may have woken up, seen the bottle, and had a try. Not saying that was what happened, but it was an interesting development - away from"you gave them the drugs" to "were there any other drugs, apart from those you gave the children, in the villa".

Wouldn't have been the first time that has happened - but still doesn't make sense of why they would make-up a cover story.

And if the father is telling porkies, he is a fucking good actor

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