Thread: Norway killer Breivik declared sane/insane

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Anyway, looking at the pictures posted above by Mr Lick the conditions are pretty much the same as in every European prison. Nothing special about them.

and NOT the pics to which the discourse refers .

I'll never trust the BBC again, complete bastards!!

Originally Posted by DrB0b

"In the Norwegian prison system, there's a focus on human rights and respect. We don't see any of this as unusual.""

Human rights are severely limited by incarceration and respect has been squandered through the vile act committed and must be earned all over again .

The subject is not a political prisoner , just a low life scum who has inflicted far too much misery on too many innocent people and certainly does not deserve anything approaching 5 star treatment .

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Looper

Have these 'progressive' criminal justice systems lost sight of the fact that criminal sentences are about 'punishment' and allowing society a sense of justice and retribution

In civilized countries the punishment is loss of freedom and retribution is no part of justice.

That raises the interesting subject of what is the purpose of the judicial system when it serves a sentence on a criminal.

I would say the pupose of the sentence is manifold. Any given sentence should consider including aspects of some or all of the following

a. the criminal should be punished as correctional measure. They should be made to understand through suffering that their actions are wrong.

b. society should be able feel a sense of justice in seeing evidence that an individual who has wronged them is suffering so that society's faith in the justice system is upheld and (yes!) retribution can be witnessed.

c. a demonstration should be made to potential criminals that their acts will result in suffering as a deterrent.

d. the criminal should be educated and rehabilitated so their behaviour will fit in better with society's expectations if they are ever to be released.

e. where possible a criminal's punishment should be used to benefit society so some practical benefit and cost recovery can be gained from the exercise.

^How do you explain Norway's low recidivism rate as opposed to the recidivism rate of countries with more punitive penal systems?

Originally Posted by Looper

society should be able feel a sense of justice

Depends on the "society". I watched many interviews with relatives of the victims and all said they were relieved and justice had been done. Whether we agree or disagree with Norway's emphasis on rehab in their penal system, appears to them, justice has been served.

^^There could be many reasons for that which may not be directly related to their soft approach to punishment.

I am mainly interested in getting to a common understanding on what the reasons for criminal punishment are. The criminal is not the only stakeholder in the process so their rehabilitation may not be the primary motivation. Breivick may never be released so the risk of his recidivism is of limited interst. Society, victims and other criminals are also stakeholders in the process.


^ Well I am happy for them if they are happy. If I was a relative I would not be happy about these overly comfortable prison conditions.

Nobody can relish having their freedom erased. Breivik may have put on a brave face/act of defiance in the courtroom but knowing that he will almost certainly serve out his life in prison without modern conveniences is imo a suitable punishment. Society will also be protected from any further threats from the man which is the more important issue.

Incarceration can sometimes be seen as an opportunity for authorities to experiment on the rehabilitation/behaviour of such a person.

Any information deemed worthy of recording for future reference will be seen as a measure of a civilised learning society. The days of throwing someone into a dungeon with the occasional dose of bread and water have long gone in the western world. Well, lets hope so!

Published on 24 Aug 2012 by streetify9

Translation:

"I do not recognize this court because you received your mandate from political parties which recognize multiculturalism.

By setting aside my allegations on principle of necessity for judging a member of the Norwegian Resistance movement, you have sided with the multiculturalism-supporting majority in parliament, therefore you have also expressed support for multicultural ideas.

Since I do not recognize the court, I cannot legitimize the Oslo district court by accepting this sentence.

In my view this sentence and judgment is illegitimate.

At the same time I cannot appeal against the judgment because by appealing I would legitimize the court.

I would like to end with a statement of regret, to apologize to all militant nationalists in Norway and in Europe, that I..."

The judge cuts him off at this point and orders him to not address any other person in the court but her.

[Allegedly he said after he was cut off that he was apologizing to extremists for not claiming more lives].

The Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik was declared sane and sentenced to 21 years for killing 77 people.

youtube.com

Originally Posted by Mid

Published on 24 Aug 2012 by streetify9

Translation:

"I do not recognize this court because you received your mandate from political parties which recognize multiculturalism.

By setting aside my allegations on principle of necessity for judging a member of the Norwegian Resistance movement, you have sided with the multiculturalism-supporting majority in parliament, therefore you have also expressed support for multicultural ideas.

Since I do not recognize the court, I cannot legitimize the Oslo district court by accepting this sentence.

In my view this sentence and judgment is illegitimate.

At the same time I cannot appeal against the judgment because by appealing I would legitimize the court.


youtube.com

Woman judge..

And people wonder why this guy lost it. By the look on her face. it must have been the wrong time of the month.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Looper

society should be able feel a sense of justice

Depends on the "society". I watched many interviews with relatives of the victims and all said they were relieved and justice had been done. Whether we agree or disagree with Norway's emphasis on rehab in their penal system, appears to them, justice has been served.

He has internet access and all that. I bet he will be able to cordinate other attacks and bullshit.

So if the relatives think justice has been served then they are making fools of themselves.

I guess its a contest in Scandinavia. Who can be the biggest bleeding heart socialist libtard in the world. Norway has Canada beat by 4 years. In Canada, a mass murderer can only get the maximum of 25 years.

Only a matter of time before some other country drops it for under 20 years to take the lead.

Originally Posted by socal

Woman judge..

misogynist

you are a total waste of space socal

Originally Posted by socal

In Canada, a mass murderer can only get the maximum of 25 years.

Bullshit. The maximum time they can be given without being eligible for parole is 25 years, but they can be given a life sentence. If they commit mass murder they can also be ineligible for parole for 25 years for each victim consecutively. i.e. 3 victims can mean ineligible for parole for 75 years.

Originally Posted by Looper

^^There could be many reasons for that which may not be directly related to their soft approach to punishment.

I am mainly interested in getting to a common understanding on what the reasons for criminal punishment are. The criminal is not the only stakeholder in the process so their rehabilitation may not be the primary motivation. Breivick may never be released so the risk of his recidivism is of limited interst. Society, victims and other criminals are also stakeholders in the process.


^ Well I am happy for them if they are happy. If I was a relative I would not be happy about these overly comfortable prison conditions.

I think this quote from the Governor of Halden Prison is worth repeating:

"Everyone who is imprisoned inside Norwegian prisons will be released – maybe not Breivik, but everyone else will go back to society. We look at what kind of neighbour you want to have when they come out. If you stay in a box for a few years, then you are not a good person when you come out. If you treat them hard… well, we don't think that treating them hard will make them a better man. We don't think about revenge in the Norwegian prison system. We have much more focus on rehabilitation. It is a long time since we had fights between inmates. It is this building that makes softer people."

Inside Halden, the most humane prison in the world | Society | The Guardian

Simply punishing people (as per the US penal system) does not change the person...in fact, the chances are that they end up hating "The System" even more. It is amazing how well even the worst of humanity respond when you are nice to them.

You may feel unhappy about the seemingly comfortable conditions but I would rather live next to someone that was a recent inmate of a Norwegian Prison than one that had just left a US one.

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by socal

In Canada, a mass murderer can only get the maximum of 25 years.

Bullshit. The maximum time they can be given without being eligible for parole is 25 years, but they can be given a life sentence. If they commit mass murder they can also be ineligible for parole for 25 years for each victim consecutively. i.e. 3 victims can mean ineligible for parole for 75 years.

Fucking wrong

Do you know the conditions of the "parole" ? Nope. Could be total freedom except a monthly visit with a parole officer. I know ppl who have been on parole for assalt.

And compounding parole ineligability is flat wrong. It does not compound.

Robert William "Willie" Pickton (born October 24, 1949)[2] of Port Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada is a former pig farmer[3] and serial killer convicted of the second-degree murders of six women.[4][5] He is also charged in the deaths of an additional twenty women,[6] many of them prostitutes and drug users from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. In December 2007 he was sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole for 25 years —the longest sentence available under Canadian law for murder.[7]
During the trial's first day of jury evidence, January 22, 2007, the Crown stated he confessed to forty-nine murders to an undercover police officer posing as a cellmate. The Crown reported that Pickton told the officer that he wanted to kill another woman to make it an even 50, and that he was caught because he was "sloppy".[8]

^50 muders, 25 years.

Originally Posted by Troy

You may feel unhappy about the seemingly comfortable conditions but I would rather live next to someone that was a recent inmate of a Norwegian Prison than one that had just left a US one.

I don't believe that rehabilitation of prisoners is the only purpose of incarceration.

My ideas were

Originally Posted by Looper

a. the criminal should be punished as correctional measure. They should be made to understand through suffering that their actions are wrong.

b. society should be able feel a sense of justice in seeing evidence that an individual who has wronged them is suffering so that society's faith in the justice system is upheld and (yes!) retribution can be witnessed.

c. a demonstration should be made to potential criminals that their acts will result in suffering as a deterrent.

d. the criminal should be educated and rehabilitated so their behaviour will fit in better with society's expectations if they are ever to be released.

e. where possible a criminal's punishment should be used to benefit society so some practical benefit and cost recovery can be gained from the exercise.

The other obvious practical purpose I missed is that imprisonment puts a barrier between the criminal and society for the protection of society. I would probably put that at the top of the list actually. I have already put punishmnent higher up the list than rehabilitation. It just doesn't sit right with me that a person who has committed such an inhuman outrage is allowed to live their life out in relative comfort and security. I don't really understand why liberals are so squeamish about the idea of someone actually suffering for their crimes as a form of penitence.

Originally Posted by socal

50 muders, 25 years.

Originally Posted by socal

In December 2007 he was sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole for 25 years —the longest sentence available under Canadian law for murder

Learn to read Socal. The sentence you cut and pasted states that "life in prison" is the longest sentence available. 25 years without parole compounding is an option and not mandatory. The reason Pickton didn't get compounding ineligibility for parole was because he committed his crimes before 2011, when the law was changed.

The maximum determinate sentence is a life sentence with a 25 year parole ineligibility period. For offences committed prior to December 2, 2011 all life sentences and related parole ineligibility periods are served concurrently (at the same time). In cases of multiple murder, where the offence occurred after December 2, 2011 (the date new legislation came into force), a court may, after considering any jury recommendation, order consecutive parole ineligibility periods for each murder.

Criminal sentencing in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by socal

50 muders, 25 years.

Originally Posted by socal

In December 2007 he was sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole for 25 years —the longest sentence available under Canadian law for murder

Learn to read Socal. The sentence you cut and pasted states that "life in prison" is the longest sentence available. 25 years without parole compounding is an option and not mandatory. The reason Pickton didn't get compounding ineligibility for parole was because he committed his crimes before 2011, when the law was changed.

The maximum determinate sentence is a life sentence with a 25 year parole ineligibility period. For offences committed prior to December 2, 2011 all life sentences and related parole ineligibility periods are served concurrently (at the same time). In cases of multiple murder, where the offence occurred after December 2, 2011 (the date new legislation came into force), a court may, after considering any jury recommendation, order consecutive parole ineligibility periods for each murder.

Criminal sentencing in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

COMPOUNDING IS NOT AN OPTION. IT IS EVEN AGAINST THE LAW

Originally Posted by socal

COMPOUNDING IS NOT AN OPTION. IT IS EVEN AGAINST THE LAW

I'm talking about parole ineligibility. Since you've been shown the facts and still blindly deny them, care to show me a valid link for your moronic misconceptions?

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by socal

COMPOUNDING IS NOT AN OPTION. IT IS EVEN AGAINST THE LAW

I'm talking about parole ineligibility. Since you've been shown the facts and still blindly deny them, care to show me a valid link for your moronic misconceptions?

I AM TALKING ABOUT PAROLE INELIGIBILITY TOO.

In December 2007 he was sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole for 25 years —the longest sentence available under Canadian law for murder.[7]

Originally Posted by socal

I AM TALKING ABOUT PAROLE INELIGIBILITY TOO.

Numbskull, you said the longest sentence they gave to mass murderers in Canada was 25 years. I showed you the facts that proved you wrong. Then you said it was illegal to make a mass murderer ineligible for parole for longer than 25 years. I once again showed you the facts and proved you wrong.

How the fuk do you even get through daily life?

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by socal

I AM TALKING ABOUT PAROLE INELIGIBILITY TOO.

Numbskull, you said the longest sentence they gave to mass murderers in Canada was 25 years. I showed you the facts that proved you wrong. Then you said it was illegal to make a mass murderer ineligible for parole for longer than 25 years. I once again showed you the facts and proved you wrong.

How the fuk do you even get through daily life?

You proved NOTHING.

I live in this socialist hell hole, i should know. My uncle was the solicitor general for a certain province... He is still an MLA

Originally Posted by pickel

How the fuk do you even get through daily life?

pondered that one as well

Originally Posted by socal

You proved NOTHING. I live in this socialist hell hole, i should know. My uncle was the solicitor general for a certain province... He is still an MLA

Wow! Socal, I hope you aren't in a position in the oil industry that can put your co-workers in danger. I feel so sorry for them. Keep on digging that hole.

"Socialist hell hole".

*snigger*

Originally Posted by socal

My uncle was the solicitor general for a certain province... He is still an MLA

Maybe if your uncle was a mass murderer you might finally realize you're an ignorant fool and completely wrong on this issue.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

"Socialist hell hole".

*snigger*

Yes, that is quite funny. Love it or leave it Sodumb and take Minnie with you.