How do illegal workers justify their actions?

**DrAndy** · 24-03-2006, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

Originally Posted by DrAndy

what is pointless in mentioning Native English speakers.

Nothing, but you pointlessly repeated your question in case I missed it (do you think you are the only person on the forum clever enough to read every post?!?)

Oh I see, that was what you were referring to.
I thought you had missed it, so I kindly repeated it. If my kindness is unwanted, so be it.

**poolcleaner** · 24-03-2006, 03:42 PM

I was told by my old boss that schools were given 600 baht/hr to hire a 'native' speaker to teach conversational English, not curriculum grammar which is the Thai teacher's baby.
An exclusive, seperate market that doesn't affect the employment of Thai teachers.
A market that could never be adequately filled by qualified teachers, hence the abundant number of TEFL teachers in existence!

**machangezi** · 24-03-2006, 03:43 PM

Out of interest aren't you working today, Smegster?

**DrAndy** · 24-03-2006, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

Originally Posted by DrAndy

so if she is Thai and can compete, why would the school employ the non-WP foreigner rather than her? You say they get exactly the same money. If I was a school, I would prefer a legal worker. Maybe she is not a good teacher? or has other problems, or what?

Its not schools, its private tutoring in kids homes.

oh OK Smeg, I will pointlessly and patiently point out the question still applies, just change the word school to private tutoring etc

why employ an illegal foreigner instead of her

**machangezi** · 24-03-2006, 03:46 PM

Post number 94 and the other one a few below 94 are still waiting for replies or is it just Smeg Vs rest of TD posters?

**Smeg** · 24-03-2006, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by poolcleaner

I was told by my old boss that schools were given 600 baht/hr to hire a 'native' speaker to teach conversational English, not curriculum grammar which is the Thai teacher's baby.
An exclusive, seperate market that doesn't affect the employment of Thai teachers.
A market that could never be adequately filled by qualified teachers, hence the abundant number of TEFL teachers in existence!

But does the abundant number of illegals stop Thais training to do this job? Is it completely beyond their and the country's ability to be self-sufficient?
If the country considered that all these illegals were completely necessary, then they'd all be given WPs...

**DrAndy** · 24-03-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Macha

Post number 94 and the other one a few below 94 are still waiting for replies or is it just Smeg Vs rest of TD posters?

you have to be patient Macha, there is no point in pointlessly pointing out the fact that several posts have been ignored. Do you think you are the only person clever enough to be able to read?

**DrAndy** · 24-03-2006, 03:53 PM

anyway, sorry to be a bore, but I am off home now to a great weekend

Free dinner tonight in the Mandarin

white-water rafting tomorrow all day

nice cup of coffee on Sunday

y'all have a nice time, d'yerhear

**kingwilly** · 24-03-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Macha

Post number 94 and the other one a few below 94 are still waiting for replies or is it just Smeg Vs rest of TD posters?

fuck offf u twat - i gotta work also! (in fact it almost beer o'clock!

but drip by drip ? gimmi a break - thats a lotta fuckn drips to fill up 25 or 30 billion baht in taxes

hang on - i think that was un answered post of mine little man!

ok - i take back the unwarranted insults - but the rest of the post remains.

anyway sorry folks - i gtg

will log back in later!

**Smeg** · 24-03-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

why employ an illegal foreigner instead of her

Because they can! And because that foreigner was in the right place at the right time to be offered the work. But remove the foreigner, and the parents will track her down instead....

**machangezi** · 24-03-2006, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by Macha

Post number 94 and the other one a few below 94 are still waiting for replies or is it just Smeg Vs rest of TD posters?

you have to be patient Macha, there is no point in pointlessly pointing out the fact that several posts have been ignored. Do you think you are the only person clever enough to be able to read?

Oh Smegster why did you say this to me dear friend Doc?

**friscofrankie** · 24-03-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Macha

In short term a company in LOS may win by employing an illegal alien worker (tax evasion and low pay). Yet, in the long term, the Kingdom as a whole loses by the presence of these illegal workers. One by one, like the incessant drip of water into a bucket, a quantitative increase in the numbers of illegal immigrants produces a qualitative change in the nation. It doesn't take long for the bucket or the nation to overflow.

Gimme a break. THe US was built by illegal workers, Frm the sounds of DrAndy's(?) post the UK is being upgraded by illegals. I know of hundreds of jobs where if there were on illegals working it would be too expensive for job to be started thus doing the "legal" workers out of opportunity. The illegal workers in the TEFL trade make more than most of the legal Thai national english teachers.
If you are lumping the Burmese illegals into the mix, they like the mexicans in the US are willing to work, work harder, longer and cheaper than the Thai laborers. This will have long term positive effect. Quite simply, the work will get done! Floors will be swept ditches dug, etc. These folk bring with them a work ethic that is sorely lacking in the majority of Thai laborers.
if under-the-table payments and work were completely abolished the cost of doing busness would skyrocket. When some 30K a month dude ain;t payin' his 1500 baht a month tax he's spendin' it on food/beer rent. When Taksin ain;t payin' his 3.5 billion baht one-time tax (figure cap gains n the sale had to be alot more but we'll deal with 5% of gross price) where is he spending that? Who loses?
Taksin's abuse is not the only tax evasion going on in the upper echelons of the economy. But right now it's the most prominent in most folks minds. Bottom of the barrel illegal workers help smaller businesses to flourish and grow. upper crust tax evasion deprives the population of education, infrastructure, health care. Doubt all the illegals, working a full year (five years?) would generate the amount of tax this most recent of abuse has.

**Whiteshiva** · 24-03-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

Back in bournemouth I knew a few Asians and South Americans that were working illegally in restaurants and shops. They said that they did it because it was the only way to stay in the UK year after year, and they were desperate to avoid going home.

I can't understand the thought patterns of Westerners who come to Thailand and spend year after year here working illegally whilst building up a social life, business, renting a longterm condo etc. Are they not worried that their entire lifestyle rests on a knife-edge, and everything could collapse and be snatched away at any time?

Why did you come here to work illegally, then? Because you have admitted that you did when you first came here, right?

Let me guess - it was the pussy, right?

**Smeg** · 24-03-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Why did you come here to work illegally, then? Because you have admitted that you did when you first came here, right?

Let me guess - it was the pussy, right?

I didn't. I came here for a long holiday and ended up doing a few months of teaching, partly for the money, but mainly thru boredom whilst figuring out what to do next in my life. As soon as I sussed that, and realised how dumb working illegally is, I left.

**ChiangMai noon** · 24-03-2006, 04:50 PM

I agree with a number of the Smeggy sentiments on this thread. I left my work permitted job in Bangkok for a far more lucrative and less strenuous job teaching 5 spoilt Chinese kids, well basically doing their homework for them 12 hours a week. An absolute doddle, but i missed the security of having my work permit.
Life in thailand felt awfully temporary to me without one, so I quit, moved to ChiangMai and got me a proper job.

Plenty of people don't seem so bothered though.

**Blake7** · 24-03-2006, 05:21 PM

I've got something for you to ponder Smeg.

I own property in Bournemouth (well, Branksome actually) and though I don't live there I have spent some time there and I agree there are plenty of illegal workers. I put this down to the prolific number of English Language Schools in the town.

Therefore TEFLers are fuelling illegal workers in Bournemouth as well as here in Thailand.

How does this fit into your theory of the evils of TEFLers?

**hillbilly** · 24-03-2006, 05:41 PM

FF, these commoner still do not understand. Ahh, the klass of some people.

Damn, please continue to edukate this people. Kause they dont listen to me...

**klongmaster** · 24-03-2006, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by poolcleaner

I don't see what's wrong with this thread myself.

what's wrong with the thread is the fact the the cvnt repeatedly twists the 'news' to suit his own boring point of view...

we know the cvnt hates the TEFL business...why does he have to ram it down our throats in every thread

we all know - but the fact is lost on this stupid cvnt - that the 'news' re: illegal workers in LOS refers to Burmese labour and not to the few TEFLers who don't have their paperwork in order

on this Poolie i think you're out of line

**Propagator** · 24-03-2006, 07:24 PM

FF seems to have hit the nail on the head. Most of the illegals earn a lot less money than their legal counterparts, albeit that they are earning much more than they would in their own country.

It would be interesting to know the amount of illegals in any country. My guess is that the UK and the USA would be high on that list.

**Torbek** · 24-03-2006, 08:08 PM

Australia is suffering for their lack of an under class.

North America has their Mexicans. Europe has their Turks and Algerians. People happy to perform the tasks no westerner would do.

But Australia, being an island and having a fairly stringent policy towards those illegals that still get through, does not have an underclass sneaking over the borders. Our indigenous population are receiving far to much money to actually raise a sweat doing anything.

So what happens?

Bar staff earn over $30 an hour. Waiters can pick up $40 an hour with tips. Tradesman won't get off their arses for less than $60 - $100 an hour. No-one will cut the smallest lawn for less than $30. The kid next door even wants $20, using your lawnmower and leaving the clippings onn the grass!

With an aging population, there will be serious problems in the next decade or so.

So it is time to "open" the borders to an under class.

Unfortunately the most likely candidates appear to be Pacific islanders, who want nothing more than to left alone to eat under a coconut palm...

So I suppose we will just have to continue to rely on British and eastern European backpackers to provide these services...

**obsidian** · 24-03-2006, 08:12 PM

just a money thing

would do it myself if need be

**poolcleaner** · 24-03-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by klongmaster

Originally Posted by poolcleaner

I don't see what's wrong with this thread myself.

what's wrong with the thread is the fact the the cvnt repeatedly twists the 'news' to suit his own boring point of view...

we know the cvnt hates the TEFL business...why does he have to ram it down our throats in every thread

we all know - but the fact is lost on this stupid cvnt - that the 'news' re: illegal workers in LOS refers to Burmese labour and not to the few TEFLers who don't have their paperwork in order

on this Poolie i think you're out of line

You are more than welcome to your point of view Klongy but may the record show that you have referred to him as a cvnt three tmes and this therefore reduces your argument to nowt more than a flame.

Sorry old chap!

Care to rephrase your argument?

**Smeg** · 24-03-2006, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

aahh so thats it ...... 'unfair' competition when it should be 'her' money and 'her' job!

case closed i think - if she so good she'd get the job and the competition woudlnt be so fierce methinks!

As I said earlier, being good at a job doesn't guarantee you enough work, especially if foreigners break the law to claim a share of it. It is the government's responsibilty to protect her from this.

I had a chat with my friend earlier. She is nearly 2 million Baht in debt, as she took an MEd in the USA 3 years ago. She also has a BA in English from Thamassat. She earns about 20k p.m. from her 15 hours per week tutoring, and supports her 14 year old sister.

She wants to work more and earn more but two agencies of Westerner tutors (illegal no doubt) have bagged most of the international school students in her area. She is currently researching these agencies, on the net etc, with a view to getting them closed down. She didn't specify if that was via reporting them to immigration, and had to hang up before I had a chance to ask her. She only started this action in the last week since meeting one of the tutors by chance, who gloated about his fake BA and ridiculed the parents who pay him.

I really can't condemn her for her plan of action.

**mad_dog** · 24-03-2006, 11:41 PM

You have lots of interesting friends smeg

**poolcleaner** · 24-03-2006, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

She is currently researching these agencies, on the net etc, with a view to getting them closed down. She didn't specify if that was via reporting them to immigration, and had to hang up before I had a chance to ask her. She only started this action in the last week since meeting one of the tutors by chance, who gloated about his fake BA and ridiculed the parents who pay him.

I really can't condemn her for her plan of action.

Nor can anyone I'd think.
In fact she dererves applause for getting off her arse to protect hers and, ultimately, others livlihoods from unscrupulous (sp) Thai businesses, which I might add, are the biggest obstacle in them getting a fair shake!

Thread: How do illegal workers justify their actions?

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions