With so many Britons murdered in Thailand............

**November Rain** · 13-01-2008, 09:21 PM

^ 226 out of how many? Does anyone know how many Brits visit here each year? And live here? Sorry, I don't. I still maintain UK is far more dangerous, even if every death is suspicious. And let's face it, that's not the case.

**Thetyim** · 13-01-2008, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

226 out of how many?

Well the article says 420k but I think that is too low.

It also says 50k Brits living in LOS and again I think that number is too low

**dirtydog** · 13-01-2008, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

the FCO had a revealing internal debate about what safety advice they should give to British nationals travelling to Thailand, as an email obtained by the BBC under the Freedom of Information Act testifies: "The trouble with [giving advice about the murder rate]... is that it would effectively highlight the number of murders over the past year or more here, which in the current circumstances could have a disproportionate impact on Thailand's reputation and legitimate commercial interests."

Money wins out over advice about safety in Thailand

**Norton** · 13-01-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

or something else?

Shhh... caution, sensitive Brits are reading.

**Spin** · 13-01-2008, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

My missus says that most Thais are afraid to mess with me because of my size

You in the avatar is it?

**November Rain** · 13-01-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

in a country with amongst the highest murder rates and gang rape rates in the world?

You said this, did you not, Smeg? Yet when I ask for proof, as pertaining to this thread, you said

Originally Posted by Smeg

Look it up yourself if you are interested, I'm not your secretary, I'm someone sharing my opinion

Does that mean there are statistics to back up what you claim, or does it mean that you were merely 'sharing your opinion'?

**Smeg** · 13-01-2008, 10:32 PM

What it means is, NR, that I have read this and I am sharing my opinion. Now, if you want to pretend that this is a court of law rather than a discussion forum because you have a bee in your bonnet about people saying that thailand is dangerous, then carry on, but please don't be surprised when people ignore you as you stamp on the ground demanding that proof be presented for your scrutiny in your apparent desperation to convince the forum that thailand isn't dangerous.

**chitown** · 13-01-2008, 10:35 PM

If I am sitting in a cafe with some friends adn someone tells a story or gives a stat, then I might ask "really where did you read that?".

So why would you not reveal the source?

**English Noodles** · 14-01-2008, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Smeg

What it means is, NR, that I have read this and I am sharing my opinion. Now, if you want to pretend that this is a court of law rather than a discussion forum because you have a bee in your bonnet about people saying that thailand is dangerous, then carry on, but please don't be surprised when people ignore you as you stamp on the ground demanding that proof be presented for your scrutiny in your apparent desperation to convince the forum that thailand isn't dangerous.

Unfortunately the most recent statistics i can find for the murder rate in Thailand are from the year 2000 when it was claimed there were 8.47 murders to every 100,000 people. In the U.S. for the same year it was 5.51 per 100,000 people. I could not find a listing for the U.K. for the same year, but for the following year, 2001 it was claimed to be 1.76 per 100,000 people.

On these figures that works out at Thailand having a murder rate that is 4.8125 times higher than that of the United Kingdom.

I am well aware that these statistics are easily arguable and by no means concrete but i think they do at least lend a way to get an idea of the picture here.

List of countries by homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Noodles.

**Zavier38** · 14-01-2008, 02:29 AM

Anyone know the stats for suicide leaps from balconies? Farang in Pattaya don't very often get "murdered". Might be bad for the tourist biz

.

**November Rain** · 14-01-2008, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by English Noodles

Originally Posted by Smeg

What it means is, NR, that I have read this and I am sharing my opinion. Now, if you want to pretend that this is a court of law rather than a discussion forum because you have a bee in your bonnet about people saying that thailand is dangerous, then carry on, but please don't be surprised when people ignore you as you stamp on the ground demanding that proof be presented for your scrutiny in your apparent desperation to convince the forum that thailand isn't dangerous.

Unfortunately the most recent statistics i can find for the murder rate in Thailand are from the year 2000 when it was claimed there were 8.47 murders to every 100,000 people. In the U.S. for the same year it was 5.51 per 100,000 people. I could not find a listing for the U.K. for the same year, but for the following year, 2001 it was claimed to be 1.76 per 100,000 people.

On these figures that works out at Thailand having a murder rate that is 4.8125 times higher than that of the United Kingdom.

I am well aware that these statistics are easily arguable and by no means concrete but i think they do at least lend a way to get an idea of the picture here.

List of countries by homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Noodles.

Thanks, Noodles.

I don't suppose there is any way to differentiate between Thais & farang in the statistics (I would think the vast majority of these are Thais), but yes, it does seem to prove that the murder rate is probably higher here.

**November Rain** · 13-01-2008, 10:37 PM

^^Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was forum etiquette that people either stated that this was only their opinion & they really didn't know, or had some proof to back up their claims.

Either I was very mistaken or you're not a huge one for etiquette.

**Norton** · 13-01-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

But for me, the fact that 10% of all brits murdered abroad are murdered in thailand but only 0.6% of trips abroad are to thailand, something is wrong.

I think to sort it one would have to take a hard look at the demographics and reasons Brits travel to Thailand. I don't have the statistics but I would "guess" that most Brits because of proximity, travel to Europe for both business and holiday hence the small % coming to Thailand. People traveling for business purposes from/to whatever country tend to do their business and go home. People traveling on holiday come in essentially two categories. Families who tend to stay in relatively safe environs and single party hearty types who throw caution to the wind. If the majority of Brits coming to Thailand are of the party type, then it is not a mystery why such a large percentage are killed here. The same would hold true for any nationality traveling to any country in the world.

**Smeg** · 13-01-2008, 11:03 PM

^ But if that were the case, the Med is much more of a party destination than Thailand, probably 20 fold. It would be interesting to see how many are murdered in Majorca, Rhodes etc. I remember hearing very few such stories

I think it is more to do with building close contact with the locals and seeking a cultural experience that turns bad

**Texpat** · 13-01-2008, 11:15 PM

It helps if you don't think of it so much as murder, rather strengthening the gene pool.

**Norton** · 13-01-2008, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Smeg

^ But if that were the case, the Med is much more of a party destination than Thailand, probably 20 fold. It would be interesting to see how many are murdered in Majorca, Rhodes etc. I remember hearing very few such stories I think it is more to do with building close contact with the locals and seeking a cultural experience that turns bad

Yes it would be good to have the statistics to give an apples to apples comparison by country. A few years ago I did have numbers of deaths by cause in Thailand but only for American citizens. I believe you are on to something that in my mind is unique to Thailand and perhaps the big draw to the country for some. The "cultural experience". I think we are on the same frequency here. The mindset of foreigners engaging in the Thai "cultural experience" business and the compelling way Thai practitioners conduct the business vs other countries is not the same and is apt to lead to big problems for the foreigner. Simply put, how many visitors to the red light districts of any country lose their ability to reason because they fell head over heels in love with the ladies providing the service. I think not many!

**The Gentleman Scamp** · 14-01-2008, 06:09 AM

Keep your nose clean, stay out of trouble, don't be a prick and Thailand is as safe - if not safer - than anywhere.

I love Bangkok because of this, I wonder around at 5 am and I can go to Tesco Lotus express and buy pork chops, get invited to join homosexuals eating Pad Kapow on the street and turn them down to visit Teak Door at a 24 hour internet cafe that at 5am only has a couple of saddo's playing Special Force.

**Thetyim** · 14-01-2008, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by November Rain

I still maintain UK is far more dangerous

How do you define dangerous?

My guess is that you are more likely to be murdered here but less likely to suffer other violence.

**November Rain** · 14-01-2008, 11:07 AM

^ Possibly. Without meaning to be flippant, I don't think many people expect murder to happen to them, so I don't think it's necessarily a fear you have when walking down a dark alley or whatever. Whereas, as a woman in UK, rape or assault were a real fear and they're not something that crosses my mind here. (yeah, yeah, I know - no-one would touch a farang woman anyway

)

So, you could be right. How many people (apart from those in severely dysfunctional relationships or involved in criminal activities) actually feel 'in danger' of being murdered? Either here or any other country? Yes, it could happen, sure, but unless you live in drive-by central, I don't think it's a thought that pops up too regularly. All down to perception I guess. People die in RTAs, but we all still travel in vehicles. People die in plane crashes, but we still travel on planes.

**English Noodles** · 14-01-2008, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Thetyim

My guess is that you are more likely to be murdered here but less likely to suffer other violence.

I would tend to agree with you, i would guess (IMHO) that you are far less likely to be the victim of a random act of street violence here in Thailand than you are in the U.K.

Noodles.

**ChiangMai noon** · 14-01-2008, 12:00 PM

Only fights I've ever had here were with a kiwi and an Oirish.

**English Noodles** · 14-01-2008, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

I don't suppose there is any way to differentiate between Thais & farang in the statistics (I would think the vast majority of these are Thais)

A very valid point.

According to the Foreign and commonwealth office only five British nationals have been murdered in Thailand between January 2006 and present. I have sent them an e-mail asking for clarification on this figure as i feel i could cite more cases than this from a few quick internet searches. (though i may be wrong)

Official TAT figures show that around 850,000 Brits visit Thailand every year.

If these figures are correct then you are far less likely (as a Brit), almost 3 times less likely infact to be the victim of a murder in Thailand than you are in your home country.

Noodles.

**English Noodles** · 14-01-2008, 12:12 PM

Of couse i realise that the above can be manipulated to prove any point that one wants to prove, for example someone could argue about 'time on the ground' i.e. out of the 850,000 visitors the average visitor only spends 14-21 days in the country as apposed to the remainder of the year in their own country so therfore the time exposed to risk is 17 fold greater in the UK than here in Thailand. Yada Yada Yada.

Thats how statisticians stay employed.

Noodles.

**AntRobertson** · 14-01-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by English Noodles

I have sent them an e-mail asking for clarification on this figure as i feel i could cite more cases than this from a few quick internet searches

Crickey, that's keen. Stands in stark contrast to your compatriot Smeg, citing stats and telling others to look them up.

Originally Posted by English Noodles

Of couse i realise that the above can be manipulated to prove any point that one wants to prove

Lies, lies, more lies and damned statistics eh!

**NickA** · 14-01-2008, 12:59 PM

Still, more honest than lawyers though

Thread: With so many Britons murdered in Thailand............

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