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  1. #1
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    Fwg'n'wog wot could possibly go wong

    (CNN)French President Francois Hollande called for the creation of "an Islam of France" and the removal of foreign-trained extremist imams in a key speech Thursday on the challenges radical Islam poses to democracy.

    Addressing the debate surrounding Islam following a summer of terror attacks and burkini bans, he stressed that French secularism was not at odds with the religion.
    "Nothing in the idea of secularism is opposed to the practice of Islam in France, as long -- and that is the vital point -- as it complies with the law," Hollande said in Paris, stressing that secularism was "not a religion of the state that stands against all other religions."
    Did terrorists plan to attack the Notre Dame cathedral?

    Did terrorists plan to attack the Notre Dame cathedral? 01:29
    "What we need to succeed in together is the creation of an Islam of France," Hollande said.
    "The first decision consists of reintroducing a foundation for Islam, which relies on cultural, educational and social initiatives.
    "The second will be to create a national association in order to obtain financing for the building of mosques and the training of imams. The republic cannot accept a situation where a majority of imams are trained abroad and sometimes don't speak our language."
    He said that radical Islam had created "a fake state, led by real killers. It skews the Islamic religion to spread its hatred."
    France is under a state of emergency introduced after the ISIS terror attacks in Paris in November and extended following the Bastille Day terror attack in Nice.
    Hollande: Islam compatible with republican values
    French officials have spoken before of plans to clamp down on foreign-funded and -trained mosques amid fears around Islamic extremism following a string of ISIS-inspired attacks and with hundreds of French jihadists joining the terror group's ranks in the Middle East.
    Source: French church attacker was under house arrest

    Source: French church attacker was under house arrest 02:02
    The atrocities include the killing of an elderly Catholic priest in his church near Rouen in July and the killing of a police commander and his partner in Magnanville a month earlier.
    Hollande said the core republican principle of the separation of church and state was conceived at a time when Muslims made up only a tiny proportion of the French population.
    "The question is to know if the principles laid down more than a century ago remain relevant when Islam is the second religion of France," he said.
    "The answer is yes, clearly yes. The vast majority of our Muslim compatriots demonstrate it every day."
    Between 7% and 9% of France's population is Muslim, according to the CIA World Factbook.

    Allez A Snackbar
    I used to have a job at a calendar factory.
    I got the sack because
    I took a couple of days off.

  2. #2
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    Preachers and Imans from abroad should not be allowed, on that he's right. But that won't stop online preachers living in Yemen to reach out to the youth of Europe through the Internet.

  3. #3
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    get rid of burqa and niqab. they're unacceptable.
    yet if they do, the Muslim man may call her a whore,
    while they dress in western clothes.

    French Muslims will have to remove passages from their book. yes ?

    'Islam of France', 'Islam of England' 'Islam of Germany'.

    Should only be one law per country.

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    An interesting idea. The setting up of a national association in order to obtain financing for the building of mosques and the training of imams seems to be a good idea.

    I'm not sure what he means exactly by "Islam of France". Perhaps he will spell it out in more detail in coming days.

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    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    I blame the Austrians. They only got to Vienna last time!

    Come back Charles Martel all is forgiven.
    Last edited by VocalNeal; 09-09-2016 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Allez A Snackbar

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    Alans Snackbar is now ubiquitous. Does it correlate to the demise of the Greasy Spoon?

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    Political waffle, an immature vision common to world leaders queuing up with their solution to the Israel-Arab conflict.

    French Muslims will have to remove passages from their book.
    Sounds easy enough, French Muslims will have to do as they're told, leave mainstream Islam and form their own sect by removing passages that non-Muslims deem inappropriate, and France will be saved. Unfortunately such magic wand solutions are usually delivered by wishful infidels that do not have a clue about Islam, and this is why Europe and the mid-East arrived at these situations in the first place.

    As yet another clue to how things work, never mind passages or even interpretations, the focussed resources of the entire west could not coerce Islam into changing just a single word or principle derived from the Koran or the Sunnah or Sharia.

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    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Jabir,

    I see the problem as being that Islam is NOT a religion. It is a form of politics/government to control the masses based on religion. You may argue that Christianity is also that or Judaism but for better or worse modern societies have moved on and become secular.

    This is why I have said that the laws of some nation need to be changed from "Freedom of Religion" to "Freedom of Worship"

    By doing this everyone can go to their building of choice or not and worship God or whatever deity they wish.

    The are not free however to demand political changes based on the ramblings of a 2000 year-old or 1400 year-old so called prophet.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal
    It is a form of politics/government to control the masses based on religion.
    What the politician is suggesting is not political control? What are the skin cancer rates of the robed. Or should going topless on the beach, spread to the shopping centres. Or would that get the other "worshippers" calling for them to cover up their obscene nakedness.

    One wonders why some countries use phrases like:

    "In God we trust" or " When Britain first, at Heaven's commandArose from out the azure main;This was the charter of the land,And guardian angels sang this strain:" Is it just their "God" who is exceptional? Don't most countries allegedly, steer clear of proscribing a citizens religion or who they worship too?
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    ENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somboon View Post
    A cult can't be reformed. You either follow the cult or reject it.
    Best to eradicate it.

  11. #11
    ENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Political waffle, an immature vision common to world leaders queuing up with their solution to the Israel-Arab conflict.
    The Israel-Arab conflict solution has nothing to do with it.

    Mohammed (the apostate Jew)'s first act of genocide was to slaughter his hosts, all the Jews of Mecca, ordaining that all Jews and other non-believers in his deluded supremacist ramblings be killed, forever.

    Ever since then, Islam's been a pain in the arse for everyone.

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    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Genocide_of_Banu_Qurayza


    The irony is that Jews and Arabs are genetically quite similar.

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    Bruverly love's no sin
    From Mozzads Daesh
    to Hashashsin flash
    neighbours within
    Embrace fores kin

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal View Post
    Jabir,

    I see the problem as being that Islam is NOT a religion. It is a form of politics/government to control the masses based on religion. You may argue that Christianity is also that or Judaism but for better or worse modern societies have moved on and become secular.

    This is why I have said that the laws of some nation need to be changed from "Freedom of Religion" to "Freedom of Worship"

    By doing this everyone can go to their building of choice or not and worship God or whatever deity they wish.
    Sometimes it's easy to be both right and wrong, especially on Islam.

    According to Anjem Choudary, Islam is not so much a religion as a dee, which is a complete way of life; many if not most imams agree with this, which makes you right although perhaps not how you meant. Unfortunately there are many people around that if they dislike someone, for example Anjem Choudary, will diss everything that person says or does; mostly these are non-Muslims that know about Islam only what they couldn't avoid picking up from whichever leader or celebrity plies them with false narratives whilst telling them how clever they are.

    I am no politician or scholar, so I would guess even if there is something in what you suggest about changing the wording there are many reasons why the proposal could not work with Islam. Just one powerful reason is that while westerners accept separation of church as an ideal to accomplish or at least strive towards, such separation will always be utterly rejected by Islam because the church is the state and therefore one simply could not survive without the other.

    They are not free however to demand political changes based on the ramblings of a 2000 year-old or 1400 year-old so called prophet.
    Bear with me for one paragraph that may appear off topic: Most westerners find it difficult to grasp that jihad is the heart and soul of Sharia, not as an aberration but the essence without which Islam could not exist. Non-Muslim beliefs, even atheism, are anathema to Islam, and the goal of jihad is not to knock down buildings and blow people up but to bring every living human under the rule of Sharia, Islamic law, using any and all means. Nothing can change as long as Islam exists, yet well into the Third Jihad few westerners understand this and still talk about reforming Islam towards living in harmony with other faiths.

    And here is where everything you said falls down, by using logic and what sounds reasonable to a westerner, and expecting or hoping that it makes sense to everyone. In this respect I can understand what you say from both sides, Muslim and westerner, though sometimes I wonder if that's an advantage or an obstruction.

  15. #15
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Sometimes it's easy to be both right and wrong, especially on Islam.
    There's something wrong in the quote below.
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    According to Anjem Choudary, Islam is not so much a religion as a dee, which is a complete way of life;

  16. #16
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    Or a disease started by a pedophile with monkeys facing a cube to stop tehm thinking clearly

    Purdah

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    Suicide bummers

    Wahts not to like

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Sometimes it's easy to be both right and wrong, especially on Islam.
    There's something wrong in the quote below.
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    According to Anjem Choudary, Islam is not so much a religion as a dee, which is a complete way of life;
    Not sure I follow. A 'dee' is a complete and definitive way of life which includes rules for every domestic, personal, political, financial and religious activity.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Genocide_of_Banu_Qurayza


    The irony is that Jews and Arabs are genetically quite similar.
    An even bigger irony is that Arabs and pigs are also genetically quite similar.

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    ENT
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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Sometimes it's easy to be both right and wrong, especially on Islam.
    There's something wrong in the quote below.
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    According to Anjem Choudary, Islam is not so much a religion as a dee, which is a complete way of life;
    Not sure I follow. A 'dee' is a complete and definitive way of life which includes rules for every domestic, personal, political, financial and religious activity.
    Thanks for confirming you are neither a Muslim nor an Arab.


  21. #21
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Whatever pleases you, though Islam is not unique in this respect as the Jews also have their deen/din (beth din, house of judgement), while other ME religions and many Arab Christians also have dees.

    Google might tell you more, or try: Definition of the Word Deen & the Word Islam

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Whatever pleases you, though Islam is not unique in this respect as the Jews also have their deen/din (beth din, house of judgement), while other ME religions and many Arab Christians also have dees.

    Google might tell you more, or try: Definition of the Word Deen & the Word Islam
    I don't need to know more. I pointed out to you a mistake in your post - a rather obvious mistake to a Muslim or an Arab, or even someone educated in Islam or Arabic. Anyone can make a mistake, but even after I told you of a mistake in a single sentence, you did not spot it, in fact you made the same mistake in your next post, which proves to me you actually don't know the word, and a Muslim surely would. You probably just copied it from another site and pasted it here.

    So what's your story, "Jabir"? Why are you here? Why pretend to be something you are not?

  23. #23
    ENT
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    Dr. B0b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna
    So what's your story, "Jabir"? Why are you here? Why pretend to be something you are not?
    I called this sometime ago. He is a multi nic phony. No just to get down to who he really is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ENT
    Dr. B0b
    Oh good call there.

  25. #25
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Dr. B0b.
    I don't think so. I think Dr Bob would know, or at least would do better research than "Jabir".

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