Reverse Darwinism Or......

**DrB0b** · 13-06-2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by flash

its fucking up the population too, life expectancy used to be around 40 years old, it must be around 90 years old by now. People are just very reluctant to die these days.

Very selfish of them. Luckily we've got people like George Bush to help even things out.

**cali kid** · 13-06-2007, 10:10 AM

Thanks for all the good feed back. Like i said I just wanted to hear what other people thought, knew, or thought they knew on the subject.

So what I get is that the world and evolution are just too big of a driving force to let us worry ourselves about traits that we may be instilling on ourselves.

But I do believe antibiotics, while not changing ones genetic make up is still got to have an effect on the bodies natural defenses.

Say for example, very simply.
One man wears a shirt his whole life being protected from the sun, when he takes his shirt off he is most definitely going to get burnt, while the man's that has had his shirt of skin is more used to sun exposure and wont get burnt so bad at least.

Maybe its a bad example but i think you know what i mean.

**ChiangMai noon** · 13-06-2007, 10:15 AM

^
Isn't it also the case that certain cultures have no immunity build up to alcohol because they have never had it as part of their former generations lives.
That can't be a genetic effect.

**DrB0b** · 13-06-2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by cali kid

Thanks for all the good feed back. Like i said I just wanted to hear what other people thought, knew, or thought they knew on the subject.

So what I get is that the world and evolution are just too big of a driving force to let us worry ourselves about traits that we may be instilling on ourselves.

But I do believe antibiotics, while not changing ones genetic make up is still got to have an effect on the bodies natural defenses.

Say for example, very simply.
One man wears a shirt his whole life being protected from the sun, when he takes his shirt off he is most definitely going to get burnt, while the man's that has had his shirt of skin is more used to sun exposure and wont get burnt so bad at least.

Maybe its a bad example but i think you know what i mean.

The man who keeps his shirt off most of the time will probably get skin cancer! I do agree that indiscriminate use of antibiotics can be damaging and I think that educating people about the correct use of medicines is the way to go. I remember a TV campaign when I was a kid encouraging people not to hassle doctors for medicines they didn't need (doctor, doctor, can I have a prescription?) and encouraging doctors not to give drugs to people who didn't need them. Last time I went for a medical checkup here I had a cold and the doctor gave me six bags of multi-coloured pills, four of the bags had different types of antibiotics. When I asked him what the hell the point of giving antibiotics for a viral infection was and why in any case I'd need 4 different types he told me that it was only 120 Baht for the pills and if I didn't want them I could give them to somebody else or throw them away

I have a different doctor now.

**DrB0b** · 13-06-2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

^
Isn't it also the case that certain cultures have no immunity build up to alcohol because they have never had it as part of their former generations lives.
That can't be a genetic effect.

"Certain minority groups may possess genetic traits that either predispose them to or protect them from becoming alcoholic. Few such traits have so far been discovered. However, the flushing reaction, found in the highest concentrations among people of Asian ancestry, is one example.
Flushing has been linked to variants of genes for enzymes involved in alcohol metabolism. It involves a reddening of the face and neck due to increased blood flow to those areas and can be accompanied by headaches, nausea, and other symptoms. Flushing can occur when even small amounts of alcohol are consumed (16).

Japanese-Americans living in Los Angeles have been studied. Among those with quick flushing responses (flushing occurs after one drink or less), fewer consumed alcohol than did those with no or with slow flushing responses (flushing occurs after two or more drinks)(17). In another group of Japanese-American students in Los Angeles, flushing was far less correlated with abstention from alcohol than it was in the first group (17). Thus, although flushing appears to deter alcohol use, people with the trait may nevertheless consume alcohol.

Another genetic difference between ethnic groups occurs among other enzymes involved in metabolizing alcohol in the liver. Variations have been observed between the structures and activity levels of the enzymes prevalent among Asians, blacks, and whites (18). One enzyme found in Japanese, for example, has been associated with faster elimination of alcohol from the body when compared with whites (19). Interesting leads relating these varying rates of alcohol metabolism among minorities to medical complications of alcoholism, such as liver disease, are now being followed."
Alcohol and Minorities - Alcohol Alert No. 23-1994

Also;
Scientific American: Seeking the Connections: Alcoholism and Our Genes
Essays.cc - Genomics
Towards a molecular epidemiology of alcohol dependence: analysing the interplay of genetic and environmental risk factors -- HEATH et al. 178 (40): s33 -- The British Journal of Psychiatry

**cali kid** · 13-06-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

The man who keeps his shirt off most of the time will probably get skin cancer!

At least he will if he lives in new zealand.

**Marmite the Dog** · 13-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

A resistance to antibiotics or whatever built up during one's lifetime has no effect whatsoever on your genetic structure, thus can not be passed on or inherited.

Not true.

Bacteria build up a resistance to antibiotics, not people, but the end result is all the same that it is something that cannot be passed on.

**Marmite the Dog** · 13-06-2007, 11:12 AM

Why is this not in issues?

**slimboyfat** · 13-06-2007, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Why is this not in issues?

i dont know. why havent you moved it there yet?

**DrB0b** · 13-06-2007, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Why is this not in issues?

Because it hasn't yet turned into a flame-war between chip-shouldering nutters? Also perhaps because it's not really an issue just a discussion about the possible effects of some medicines.

**cali kid** · 13-06-2007, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Why is this not in issues?

Because I am still a rook and dont know where to properly place things

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Because it hasn't yet turned into a flame-war between chip-shouldering nutters? Also perhaps because it's not really an issue just a discussion about the possible effects of some medicines.

Also true, but i think it could go in the issues section

**ChiangMai noon** · 13-06-2007, 12:02 PM

^
If it does, we'll have to lose some of the jokey posts.

there's all sorts of rules in there.
scary place.

**cali kid** · 13-06-2007, 12:10 PM

^^ Ah I see, rules, sounds like a terrible place..55555

**Lily** · 13-06-2007, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Bacteria build up a resistance to antibiotics, not people, but the end result is all the same that it is something that cannot be passed on. __________________

I am not sure what you mean by that Marmite. It is true that it is the bacteria that develops the resistance, but the bacteria certainly do pass it on, in that they change their form to a drug resistant state.

There is also the point that while we have eradicated or lessened the danger of some serious childhood diseases, that formerly killed lots of children, others, like measles and chicken pox which were relatively harmless childhood diseases, have now become much more serious.

**Marmite the Dog** · 13-06-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lily

I am not sure what you mean by that Marmite. It is true that it is the bacteria that develops the resistance, but the bacteria certainly do pass it on, in that they change their form to a drug resistant state.

I mean that people don't pass on a resistance to each other. For sure, the bacteria does.

**Lily** · 13-06-2007, 01:06 PM

Ok, I wasn't sure that that was what you meant.

**Frankenstein** · 13-06-2007, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by DrBob

I have a different doctor now.

Care to share? Getting tired of the 'prescribe antibiotics for everything' types.

**lom** · 13-06-2007, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Last time I went for a medical checkup here I had a cold and the doctor gave me six bags of multi-coloured pills, four of the bags had different types of antibiotics. When I asked him what the hell the point of giving antibiotics for a viral infection was and why in any case I'd need 4 different types he told me that it was only 120 Baht for the pills and if I didn't want them I could give them to somebody else or throw them away

I usually keep the pink ones and sell them to tourist punters.
It's all about the colour, not the shape of the pill

**cali kid** · 13-06-2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I mean that people don't pass on a resistance to each other.

Are you sure?

It doesnt seem like all that much of a crazy idea, in fact i would say it sounds right on.

**Marmite the Dog** · 13-06-2007, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by cali kid

It doesnt seem like all that much of a crazy idea, in fact i would say it sounds right on.

We might pass on a resistance to some bacteria, but the problem with antibiotics is that bacteria evolve a lot quicker than we do, therefore they can develop resistance to modern drugs fairly quickly. Similarly with viruses (even though we're not as good at combating them yet).

But, I kind of agree with your OP. We are meddling in the laws of nature by using modern medicine to make the weaklings survive. But, on the other hand, human development of modern medicine is a result of the strong/intelligent surviving, too.

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