Thread: criticizing the country

I enjoyed Thailand much more when there was a better standard of farang. Nowadays, they all seem to be blue collar oiks, fugitives or lower end pensioners and the scope for making new friends and acquaintances has diminished greatly. This is quite important for a chap like me whose uncompromising nature tends to whittle away the field a bit.

I never saw Thailand as a place dependent upon social intercourse from the indigenous folk. The vast majority are quite simply irrelevant and what's left is pretty much wound up in their own social mores to the point having a decent conversation without one of them clamming up suddenly because he felt offended is nigh on impossible. Also, they're tricky buggers to read because they never really let you know the extent of taboo subjects and feign nonchalence when in fact their little brains are seething.

Ah well. What do I like about Thailand? The fact one can do pretty much as one pleases, it doen't cost the earth and no one gives a damn, which is how it should be. Well, I say Thailand, but I really mean Bangkok and some bits in the resort areas. The rest is quite awful unless it is through the window as one speeds through it.

Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong were better not least because one could actually make friends with the locals there but those places have changed immeasurably and residence is now impossible.

Originally Posted by thegent

I enjoyed Thailand much more when there was a better standard of farang. Nowadays, they all seem to be blue collar oiks, fugitives or lower end pensioners and the scope for making new friends and acquaintances has diminished greatly. This is quite important for a chap like me whose uncompromising nature tends to whittle away the field a bit.

I never saw Thailand as a place dependent upon social intercourse from the indigenous folk. The vast majority are quite simply irrelevant and what's left is pretty much wound up in their own social mores to the point having a decent conversation without one of them clamming up suddenly because he felt offended is nigh on impossible. Also, they're tricky buggers to read because they never really let you know the extent of taboo subjects and feign nonchalence when in fact their little brains are seething.

Ah well. What do I like about Thailand? The fact one can do pretty much as one pleases, it doen't cost the earth and no one gives a damn, which is how it should be. Well, I say Thailand, but I really mean Bangkok and some bits in the resort areas. The rest is quite awful unless it is through the window as one speeds through it.

Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong were better not least because one could actually make friends with the locals there but those places have changed immeasurably and residence is now impossible.

Not all thais are as you paint them, but meeting thais that will speak out with openess about this country and its problems and accept criticism is not easy.

I have been fortunate in that respect. For about three years now I have been a member of our condominiums committee, I am the only foriegner on the committee and have become good friends with two of the other members.

With one man I shared a love of bbc documentaries, and we started exchanging downloads and dvds,
With the other man it was an interest in classic jaguars and mercedes. They are both of chinese descent, self made businessmen, wealthy and scrupulously honest and trustworthy. Over the years we have become close friends. The car nut regularly lends me his jags and benzes, althoughhe has yet to take me up on my offer to lend him my pick up.

We have meals together and visit each others homes.

Gradually they have opened up about how and why thailand is like it is and their fears for the future.
And I can freely voice my opinions on what I think of every aspect of this country, positive and negative. One of them is well connected at the highest levels of thai society, but enjoys a beer and the blues nights sitting amongst the singlet wearing falangs and their tattood squeezes in the bars.


Our conversations are open, relaxed and nothing is held back. It helps of course that they can speak
excellent english.

They are the most rewarding friendships I have in this country.

My contact with other falangs is mostly disappointing, after six years here there are only two that I can have what I would call intelligent conversation with, conversatioln that doesnt descend into swearing, slagging of the wife or just alcohol fuelled nonsense within ten minutes.

My wife has always told me that thailand has become a dumping ground for those falangs who have either failed back home or who have severe personality disorders that prevent them from forming meaningful relationships with women, and with so many of the characters I meet here I am inclined to agree with her.

We have both become more and more reclusive since moving here, prefering our own company to the company of (most)others.

It is not easy having anything more than superficial friendships with most thais, their non confrontational ways and the constant stream of mutual compliments that goes along with it is not my style, i find it childish and irritating and cant hide my annoyance.

But for thais, it is the family that is most important, anything outside the home is of necessity of less importance and best kept at a superficial level.

Beneath our culturally imposed protective reflexes we are all human beings trying to survive.

For thais they have only themselves and their family to rely on, life is tough, and outside the home, everything is seen as available to be plundered, rather than being there for the common good.
It really is a jungle, westerners have the government to fall back on when things get tough

In the not too distant past, western societies would have been just as lawless, corrupt and selfish. Despite appearances, thailand is just a hundred or so years behind in terms of social development and to survive people need to be greedy, unemotional and ruthless. Corruption, nepotism and patronage are all part of it.

Its easy, and on a forum like this, good fun to criticize it, but we werent born into a system like this, and really have little understanding
of the real forces at work that drive thai behaviour and logic to such bizarre, by our standards, extremes.

Deep down, they are mostly an oppressed people, oppressed by those above them on the ladder, and most have somebody above them, and must behave according to the cultural mores that are their natural behaviour.

A functioning police force and justice system would go a long way to improving things here, but those who have influence and priviledge will not give up their " rights " without a fight and most thais do not want or are not yet prepared to take up that fight

Originally Posted by ShrewedPunter

I need culture, conversation, intellect

Easily found on a wet November night in Swindon/Saskatoon/Spokane, eh?

Originally Posted by thegent

Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong were better not least because one could actually make friends with the locals there but those places have changed immeasurably and residence is now impossible.

Ah, the end of the Empire and those nasty foreigners have taken control.

Originally Posted by taxexile

For about three years now I have been a member of our condominiums committee, I am the only foriegner on the committee and have become good friends with two of the other members. With one man I shared a love of bbc documentaries, and we started exchanging downloads and dvds,
With the other man it was an interest in classic jaguars and mercedes.

I am so glad that the promotion to the "committee" has helped you. You raise three points of shared interest, the BBC, European cars and blues music. Have you any points of shared interest in their culture, history or achievements?

Originally Posted by taxexile

My wife has always told me that thailand has become a dumping ground for those falangs who have either failed back home or who have severe personality disorders that prevent them from forming meaningful relationships with women,

Not knowing your wife's nationality if she is Thai, did you fall into her stereotype. If foreign is her opinion formed from the company she has kept? I am sure that you have pointed out the error of her ways, or maybe reinforced them?

Originally Posted by taxexile

In the not too distant past, western societies would have been just as lawless, corrupt and selfish

Nope, they still exhibit these vices, to this day.

Originally Posted by Blue water dreaming

Perhaps if you lived here long enough the squalor, the corruption, unpunished crime and wholesale nepotism might appear normal.

The "elite" in most societies still retain the power over the masses.

Go to any Thai village and be immediately accepted into not only the family but the entire neighbourhood. If you have a problem an "ignorant" guy with a hammer, two nails and a length of bailer twine will fix it for the price of a pair of laces and some shots of whiskey. If you happen to find the woman of your dreams you can set up home for the price of a 10 year old Ford.

Learn the language and, because of a privileged upbringing, you are indispensable in so may ways - if you choose to be! Learn the language and the culture of Thailand. Yes it's there; it's just different to your own.

Yes, ohoh, i have delved into thai culture, and have concluded that compared to other asian cultures, such as chinese, japanese or indian, it is, if you can find it, insignificant.
Their history is barely recorded, their monuments have mostly fallen into disrepair and their traditions have been prostituted to mammon.

As for thai achievments, perhaps you can refresh my memory on exactly what they are or were.

Even thais seem to go all quiet when asked about their countries achievments. Thailand is famous for kick boxing, pattaya, the remorseless dishonesty of its police force and the rigorous enforcement of its lese majeste laws.

My wife is thai, and finds a lot of what passes for normality here to be disgraceful, but like most thais, doesnt raise a stink about it. If you live here then you have to accept it. Resistance is futile.

But then a lot of what passes for normality in the west these days is disgraceful too, its the way of the world.

Being on the condo committee has helped me understand how things work here.
I have been learnt how large maintenance and management contracts are negotiated, been involved with wage negotiations with staff, learnt something about land law, seen how the financial power of large developers can be wielded and seen exactly how differences between outside interests and the interest of the condo owners are resolved when the law is of no help whatsoever.

It has been a good learning experience for me, nothing is black or white, negotiation and finding the middle ground is all.

Although when dealing so many thais, their default mode of arrogance, petulance and intractability is invariably frustrating.

I can speak thai to an intermediate level and can read and write too.

Village life may be more laid back and simple, but reliance on the hammer and a piece of string, bolstered by a bottle of whiskey is not for me im afraid, although I can see its advantages for some.