Thread: Was the Moon formed by a collision with earth ?

Was the Moon formed by a 'hit and run' collision with Earth? Simulation could finally solve the 'lunar paradox' that has baffled scientists

German researchers believe a 'hit and run' collision far more violent than previously thought could explain how the moon came into existence.

Research could prove that a collision with an impactor the size of mars known as 'Theia' formed the moon

PUBLISHED: 17:29 GMT, 29 August 2012 | UPDATED: 08:05 GMT, 30 August 2012

A new reconstruction has given researchers new clues as to how the moon may have formed.

It is believed to have formed from a collision, 4.5 billion years ago, between Earth and an impactor the size of Mars, known as 'Theia'.
However, over the past decades scientists have simulated this process and hit major problems known as the 'lunar paradox' - finding the moon appears to be made up of material that would not be expected if the current collision theory is correct.

Researchers have shed new light on the collision which they believed caused the moon 4.5 billion years ago, when a massive collider known as 'Theia' collided with the earth.

A recent study published in the journal Icarus proposes a new perspective on the theory in answer to the paradox.
If current theories are to be believed, analyses of the various simulations of the Earth-Theia collision predict that the Moon is mostly made up of material from Theia.

However, studying materials from both Earth and the Moon, shows remarkable similarities.

In fact, elements found on the Moon show identical isotopic properties to those found on Earth.
Given it is very unlikely that both Theia and Earth had identical compositions, scientists say this paradox casts doubt over the dominant theory for the Moon formation.

A group of researchers from the University of Bern, Switzerland, have now made a significant breakthrough in the story of the formation of the Moon, suggesting an answer to this Lunar Paradox.

They used simulations to examine different geometry of collisions.
They also examined the so-called 'hit-and-run collisions', where a significant amount of material is lost into space on orbits unbound to the Earth.

The researchers believe their simulation could finally solve the 'lunar paradox' which has baffled scientists

'Our model considers new impact parameters, which were never tested before,' said lead author Andreas Reufer.
'Besides the implications for the Earth-Moon system itself, the considerably higher impact velocity opens up new possibilities for the origin of the impactor and therefore also for models of terrestrial planet formation,
'While none of the simulations presented in their research provides a perfect match for the constraints from the actual Earth-Moon-system, several do come close,' adds Alessandro Morbidelli, one of the Icarus' Editors.

'This work, therefore, suggests that a future exhaustive exploration of the vast collisional parameter space may finally lead to the long-searched solution of the lunar paradox.'

Read more: Was the moon formed by a 'hit and run' collision with earth? Simulation sheds new light on the impact theory and could finally solve the 'lunar paradox' that has baffled scientists | Mail Online

I find this interesting because there is nothing new in the idea. I first heard about it in my teens via the books of Gurdjieff.



Gurdjieff, the Moon & Organic Life by Richard Myers


Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon.
—G. I. Gurdjieff

Gurdjieff's Anulios Discovered

In the First Series Gurdjieff writes that the moon was created accidentally by the collision of the Earth with the comet Kondoor. The largest fragment created by this collision was subsequently captured and became Earth’s moon. After many years of favoring other theories, today’s science, for the most part, has come to accept the hypothesis of a giant collision as the causal event which resulted in the creation of the moon. This theory postulates that during the Earth’s early life, some four billion years ago, a planetoid of approximately the size of Mars collided with a young planet Earth. The ensuing debris that was the result of the collision accreted and formed the moon. Satellite investigations and analysis of the rocks brought back to earth by the Apollo manned space missions have provided many details of the composition of the moon. With the use of this information and computer modeling, modern science has generally come to believe that the moon’s origin is best explained by the giant collision hypothesis.
Amazingly, Gurdjieff also held that at the time of this collision a smaller moon, which he calls Anulios, was created. Some 20 years after his death this was scientifically verified. The New York Times reported in July 1970:

Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff Club: books and musics, Gurdjieff Groups - Gurdjieff, the Moon

would it then be round?

why are all the objects in the universe round, btw...

no stars in star shapes etc...

Originally Posted by alitongkat

would it then be round?

why are all the objects in the universe round, btw...

no stars in star shapes etc...

Gravity and erosion. Might not have been so round immediatly following its formation.

I think it is great that we aren't sure how the moon was formed.

Were all the other planets moons formed by similar collisions?

Fuctifino

One of the first words my daughter could say was 'moon' and she wanted me to jump up to it. I tried too.

Originally Posted by alitongkat

would it then be round?

Most of the Earth is molten rock and iron, so gravity pulls it into a sphere.

Originally Posted by Bangyai

Amazingly, Gurdjieff also held that at the time of this collision a smaller moon, which he calls Anulios, was created. Some 20 years after his death this was scientifically verified.

Where's that gone then?

^ what about the moon, also round?

Originally Posted by DrAndy

^ what about the moon, also round?

You would think that after such a massive collision there would be a lot of heat around and many fragments , some large some small. If the heat were enough to melt the rock then maybe gravity pulled it into shape and erosion through impacts filled in holes and rounded it off.

My other theory is that the creator has a huge penknife and file. After creating everything in seven days he got bored on Sundays and took to whittling and filing....just to pass the time. Of course this theory is likely to be unsupported by science until they finally nail the Higgs Boson into its alloted hole.

Actually the Earth isn't round, it's a spheroid. Almost spherical, but not quite.

I'm not sure of the moon's sphericalness.

^ I am pretty sure of the moons sphericalness... I can see it.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

what about the moon, also round?

It's made of cheese.

Originally Posted by alitongkat

would it then be round?

why are all the objects in the universe round, btw...

no stars in star shapes etc...

Why is it a sphere, well its not quite.... but I will cover that later.

The earth and other objects are held together by gravity what can be though of as a force pushing everything to the centre of the earth in qually in all directions. pushing against gravity are the atoms that make up the earth, they don't want to get any closer to each other than they already are. The earths diameter represents a state where the repulsive force between earths atoms equals force of gravity pulling everything into the centre. Its a sphere because this is the only shape that creates the same equilibrium of forces in all directions, just like an inflated football.


As has been pointed out the earth is not a perfect sphere, the diameter at the equator is longer than between the N/S poles. This is because the earth is spinning This creates a Centripetal force pushing everything into space. This gravity is opposed by this force and the repulsive force between the atoms. This creates the conditions where the diameter where these forces cancel each other out that is larger than for a sphere with no spin.

N/S pols experience no Centripetal, thus the diameter is shorter and the equator experiences the greatest Centripetal force and it is longer

believe the moon formed around earth just as the earth formed around the sun.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by DrAndy

what about the moon, also round?

It's made of cheese.

Is it Gouda cheese? because I really like that.

many people consider the moon as something good or positive...
its not really... evidence indicates the opposite...

the moon might be needed, on the nature and on us, but its also has very negative sides...

studies (allgedly) found, that there are no more murders/crimes during full moon, even though people really feel the full moon and a lot of hormones seem to adjust to the moon too (female, menstrutation) - what would suggest that the male testosterone is dependend on it as well...

Originally Posted by Koojo

Is it Gouda cheese?

Sadly, no. It has a US flag on it so it'll be this 'cheese'...

Where does the Bible stand on questions of roundness and cheesiness?

^ Blessed are the cheesemakers.