Thread: Bastian Schweinsteiger

That's not the Union Jack.

Originally Posted by kingwilly

That's not the Union Jack.

No...it is the cross of St George...which is in the Union Jack...which is not

It's still a national flag of another country flown by you - a Kiwi

For sure, Van Gaal is going to have his options in defensive midfield expanded greatly, with Schweinsteiger, Schneiderllin soon to join, and not forgetting Michael Carrick who when fit is at least as good as if not better than the Sch.. twins. Phil Jones can also cover this role, as can Daley Blind. If they get Ramos from Real as has been mooted in exchange for De Gea, plus the Argentinian, Otamendi from Valencia, that's a fairly intimidating defensive group for sure.

Big question is who's going to replace Van Persie up front (and Falcao for that matter), as United have only Rooney and the youngster Wilson as out-and-out strikers at the moment, though Depay has been successful for Holland at the front rather than his usual flank role.

Originally Posted by PAG

who's going to replace Van Persie

After last season who cares?

Originally Posted by Bruce Bayliss

Originally Posted by PAG

who's going to replace Van Persie

After last season who cares?

Current rumours are Edinson Cavani from Paris St Germain, with Di Maria going in the other direction.

Originally Posted by PAG

who's going to replace Van Persie

Heskey?

Originally Posted by Luigi

Originally Posted by PAG

who's going to replace Van Persie

Heskey?

Tried and tested . . . could do worse . . . have done worse

He's only . . . what . . . 38?

Great name, though - Emile William Ivanhoe

Originally Posted by Luigi

Heskey

Originally Posted by panama hat

could do worse . . . have done worse

true...but jaysus spare me

I once asked Ian St. John at at gentlemens dinner to list the worst three players he'd ever seen in a Liverpool shirt.

And I shit you not, his answer was "Heskey, Heskey.... and Heskey".

The Yereman will get off to a good start, then get injured. He will return from injury and perform no better than Paul Scholes in his final season.
An expensive investment for a old guy who has never played in EPL.

Originally Posted by chassamui

An expensive investment for a old guy who has never played in EPL.

Old at thirty . . . bloody hell . . . and lack of EPL experience? It ain't the holy grail of competitiveness . . . added to which the majority of players are foreigners - well, except for the bottom five teams

Of course he's old at thirty - little 'sell on' value. That's the point regarding the fee paid.

An awful lot of people, and particularly players, of all nationalities regard the English Premier League as the most competitive in the world.

Following that logic ManU should only buy teenagers . . . and continue not achieving. What's the point of getting excellent and mature players into a squad?

An 'awful lot'? Yes, of course - they do because they believe the hype and - admittedly - brilliant propaganda by the EPL.

Why is it considered as competitive? Because of the numbers of foreigners - including 'old' foreigners.

Chelsea - Terry and Cahill . . . (Brits)
ManC - Can't really find a player that actually 'plays'

Arsenal and ManU have a few more.

Admittedly, very good teams which would be zero without foreigners, even 'old' foreigners whose 'sell-on' value isn't brilliant.

Heck, there's always the US, Gulf, Turkey and Russia to offload them

Originally Posted by panama hat

Following that logic ManU should only buy teenagers . . . and continue not achieving. What's the point of getting excellent and mature players into a squad?

An 'awful lot'? Yes, of course - they do because they believe the hype and - admittedly - brilliant propaganda by the EPL.

Why is it considered as competitive? Because of the numbers of foreigners - including 'old' foreigners.

Chelsea - Terry and Cahill . . . (Brits)
ManC - Can't really find a player that actually 'plays'

Arsenal and ManU have a few more.

Admittedly, very good teams which would be zero without foreigners, even 'old' foreigners whose 'sell-on' value isn't brilliant.

Heck, there's always the US, Gulf, Turkey and Russia to offload them

The main reasons are the number of games without a winter break and the fact that prize money and TV money is more evenly shared than in most leagues. Hence there are few if any 'gimmes'
Nobody would argue against the point that most of the quality comes from foreigners. That's a mere appearance of your favourite team, athletico strawman. You've always been a big fan, I know.
I think you're disputing something that people who are a little less driven by angst against all things English than you are would regard as a statement of the obvious.
That statement being simply that 15 million is quite a lot to spend on a thirty year old with fitness issues, particularly one whose previous strength has been his combativeness, in the most competitive league in the world.
Look around and see how many teams pay 15million for a thirty year old this summer. (Obviously having a thirty year old in your team since he was 25 is different from buying a thirty year old to join it)

All I all though, 50 million on schweini, darmian and depay is a shitload better value than 50 million on sterling.

No doubt about that.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Arsenal and ManU have a few more.

Actually, assuming that everyone in the squad was fit, you could expect Man United to field Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Luke Shaw, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young, and of course Wayne Rooney. So, 6 out of 11 English players is more than reasonable methinks.

Originally Posted by PAG

Originally Posted by panama hat

Arsenal and ManU have a few more.

Actually, assuming that everyone in the squad was fit, you could expect Man United to field Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Luke Shaw, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young, and of course Wayne Rooney. So, 6 out of 11 English players is more than reasonable methinks.

There's absolutely no way on god's green football pitch that manu's best 11 includes 6 Englishmen.

Jones and Young - no way. Shaw couldn't even get a game when they were crap, so unlikely now.

Carrick, Rooney and probably Smalling - yes.

Originally Posted by cyrille

Originally Posted by PAG

Originally Posted by panama hat

Arsenal and ManU have a few more.

Actually, assuming that everyone in the squad was fit, you could expect Man United to field Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Luke Shaw, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young, and of course Wayne Rooney. So, 6 out of 11 English players is more than reasonable methinks.

There's absolutely no way on god's green football pitch that manu's best 11 includes 6 Englishmen.

Jones and Young - no way. Shaw couldn't even get a game when they were crap, so unlikely now.

Carrick, Rooney and probably Smalling - yes.

With the exception of Young and Rooney (and Smallings suspension) all had injury problems last season. Young had one of his best seasons for years, displaced the disappointing Di Maria on the left wing, and was arguably United's best outfield player for the season.

Where Schweinsteiger's (and Schneiderlin) signing is really going to bear fruit is being able to play Rooney consistently in a striker role rather than as an occcasional midfielder. Looking forward to seeing Rooney, Mata and Depay as an attacking force.

The German is a sticking plaster solution to an underlying problem. The most successful period in Uniteds recent history was on the back of academy players who made the first team. Ferguson was great with young players and it seems the new boss does not have that option.
While City are buying potential, United are having to mix and match. Both options have an equal chance of success and failure.
As far as Schweinsteiger is concerned, he has spent his entire career in one brand of football and he is just cashing in on his reputation by moving to EPL. It is still the most competitive league and remains more physically demanding than any other. I hope he does well and proves me wrong, I just think he will wilt under the physical pressures, unless Van Gaal has bought him just for the CL squad.

^ and I forgot about depay.

So...these 6 Englishmen...

Originally Posted by chassamui

The most successful period in Uniteds recent history was on the back of academy players who made the first team.

Think about it Chas, you're referring to the famed "class of 92" (Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Butt, etc). 23 years ago, so hardly 'recent history', albeit all were in their prime during the mid to late '90's.

The world of English top flight football has changed considerably since then, though United still has a strong Academy going, that occasionally does bear fruit.

Originally Posted by cyrille

Young did pretty well as a wing back but if you've got shaw at left back then that option is no longer there.
Also if you have defensive midfielders schneiderlin schweini and Carrick where does the equally defensive Blind play?
I'd have thought the most likely spot would be left back or left wing back.
I can't see how Young fits in anywhere and Jones was just nowhere near good enough to be picked ahead of Darmian (???, only just joined so hardly an alternative for Jones last season) or Blind

I'd have thought it would be .....
De Horse Face (or his replacement)
Darmian Smalling Rojo Blind
Carrick Schneiderlin Schweini Herrera (3 of these 4 obvs.)
Mata Rooney Di Maria

Please let me know which of those players Young, Jones and Shaw are better than? They've all but got 'capital one cup' tattooed on their foreheads to my eyes. I wouldn't even be surprised if they get in a better CB than Smalling.

Think Van Gaal is building a squad for all eventualities, with more closely like for like options available. We haven't even mentioned luminaries such as Fellaini (great season last year, and with Young, vying for most outstanding outfield player), and Tony Valencia (never a complaint about his unaccustomed role as a wing back and in the main performing an outstanding job both defensively and offensively).

Then of course there's Januzaj, who didn't fulfil his promise last season, but maybe this? Blackett (another local lad/Englishman/academy graduate, put in some good performances in central defence last year), and young Wilson who's had a taste of some first team action already.

More and more difficult for academy graduates to break straight into United's first team squad, but not impossible. They've taken a few to the US with them this week, with everyone there guaranteed to get at least 45 minutes playing time out of the 360 minutes that United will have in friendlies. Comes down to just how much of an outstanding prospect the youngster is. If they do, inevitably there will be at least one season out on loan, to further their actual competitive match experience, rather than tread water in the reserves.

Man U seem to have a lot of average players... Chelski will finish well ahead of them next season, as will Citeh, the Arse and probably quite a few others too. Man U should realistically target a Europa League place.

I hope that helps.