Thread: Flood-Hit Thailand declines help

Since it's only the poor and defenseless that are suffering, why does the Thai government's refusal to accept help surprise anyone??? Poor people are less important in this country than the average Soi dog.

Originally Posted by Jools

Since it's only the poor and defenseless that are suffering, why does the Thai government's refusal to accept help surprise anyone??? Poor people are less important in this country than the average Soi dog.

Except of course at election time when their vote can be bought for several hundred baht

Originally Posted by Jools

No shame in ACCEPTING a helping hand, either!!

This is something that real bugs me. There should be no shame in accepting help with those 1 in 50 year events; there's not a government on this earth that can justify the expense of having all the rescue staff they could use in such an event sat there waiting for it to happen; so where the shame in admitting this.

But clearly there are lots of governments out there who believe there is shame and its worth letting their own people die and suffer to avoid it. japan, china, burma, iran all come to mind but the lists much longer.

As for the truth in this story about the US offer of help, I have no idea; I would have thought some reliable, working helicopters with crews would have been useful, given recent mishaps on the Burmese border; but then may be what they are already doing with boats is all thats needed? the only thing I am convinced of is the ability of all sides to act in their own narrow self interests at the expense of the country and shamelessly politicise a situation where co-operation is required. There's plenty of time for autopsys and finger pointing when its all over.

Originally Posted by hazz

As for the truth in this story about the US offer of help, I have no idea

The US State department and the USN DO have an idea. They said it's a lie. They said that when Thailand needs help they'll offer it or give it but that they believe Thailand is coping adequately at the moment. Of course they're taking a larger view than people on this forum whose homes are under threat.

Originally Posted by hazz

the only thing I am convinced of is the ability of all sides to act in their own narrow self interests at the expense of the country and shamelessly politicise a situation where co-operation is required.

Again, I haven't exactly seen an even split among all sides, seems to me that there is ONE group of people shamelessly exploiting this for their own benefit while the other group seem to be well-meaning but not very competent (although considering the scale of this disaster and the general culture of incompetence that afflicts this country that's hardly surprising).

^The US State department are diplomats; I wouldn't expect them to say anything other than what they have said irrespective of the circumstances.
I just don't share your optimism that one side of Thailand's political schism is any better than the other; I suppose it depends on how you choose to assign negligence to malice or incompetence that's going to determine your view on this.

Originally Posted by hazz

The US State department are diplomats; I wouldn't expect them to say anything other than what they have said irrespective of the circumstances.

They said it was untrue. That's pretty direct. You seem to believe whatever you want to believe and have a habit of not letting facts or truth get in your way. No doubt that makes you feel pretty self-righteous but it's a shameful waste of amind.

^I'm just not used to the idea that you can rely on anything a diplomat says, their stock and trade is about saying the right thing at the right time.

why is it that when ever anyone disagrees with you point of view you get all aggressive? your retired from the police now, no need to bully people just because they don't do or think what you want them to do.

If your arguments were so strong you would not need to brow beat people with name calling and bullying. If your arguments are strong you just weaken their impact.
You do this all the time, you have to be just about the angriest member on this forum and given that social and blue are your competition, thats saying something. Its an unfortunate flaw

^Amazing the lengths some people will go to just to avoid admitting they were wrong

^see it that way if you want. I am just complaining about your general attitude towards other people. It's an attitude which would be fine in the integration room for getting a confession. but this is a forum and you need to remember your not a policeman or a lawyer anymore; your supposed to have rejoined the human race.

and what exactly am I wrong about? Your telling me that there is a information source out there that I can reliably trust to tell me the truth all or not just most of the time? because thats what Iv'e been saying.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

They said it was untrue. That's pretty direct. You seem to believe whatever you want to believe and have a habit of not letting facts or truth get in your way. No doubt that makes you feel pretty self-righteous but it's a shameful waste of amind.

You must spred some reputation around before....

I disagree strongly with you quite often. But you are one poster I can respect for posts I disagree with.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

AFP: US praises Thailand's response to floods

US praises Thailand's response to floods

(AFP) – 37 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon praised Thailand's response to the country's worst flooding in decades Tuesday and said the United States stood ready to assist if needed.

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, on a tour of Asia, "is closely monitoring the situation and applauds the Thai government's quick response to this major natural disaster," spokesman George Little said in a statement.

"Thailand is a close ally, and we will continue to work with Thai officials to assess what they may need in the form of assistance from the United States."

The Pentagon statement came amid questions about how the Thai government has responded to the crisis and after Bangkok declined an offer of help from the US Navy, which had sent an aircraft carrier -- the USS George Washington -- and three other ships to the area to provide possible help with relief efforts.

With no formal request, the aircraft carrier departed the area last Friday and headed to Japan for an annual exercise, officials said.

Panetta, who held talks in Tokyo earlier, has "expressed serious concern about the flooding in Thailand" throughout his visit to the Asia-Pacific region and offers his "deepest condolences to all those who have suffered," the statement said.

A US defense official in Washington told AFP on Monday the United States had received "mixed messages" from Thailand about US assistance and in the end, no formal request was issued.

.....

Originally Posted by hazz

^see it that way if you want. I am just complaining about your general attitude towards other people. It's an attitude which would be fine in the integration room for getting a confession. but this is a forum and you need to remember your not a policeman or a lawyer anymore; your supposed to have rejoined the human race.

and what exactly am I wrong about? Your telling me that there is a information source out there that I can reliably trust to tell me the truth all or not just most of the time? because thats what Iv'e been saying.

Nicely put there Hazz, just tell him to fuck off like he tells other people to when it dont suit him,

Perhaps the decline of assistance goes something like this....

1) A government accepts a well-meaning invitation from foreign military to assist and then what to do with with the relationship (might even be a "face saving issue") with local military ?

OR

2) Allow the local military to run the show (who could also accept the invitation of foriegn military assitance )

Can 2) be implemented without declaring a State of Emergency?

Have a good think about it!!

Well there was the stuff about mixed messages from the government

maybe the pm was quite keen on american help, but the military were not quite so keen and the americans were not too keen to offer if the entire government was not keen to accept. After all having american service personal wandering around the place might complicate their coup plans; there's always the risk you might shoot one during the coup and would right piss off the americans.

but then I am assuming that there were mixed messages from thailand, the military are planning a coup and that they give a shit what americans think if they shoot one of theirs. which is rather a lot of assuming

Originally Posted by Khun Custard

Perhaps the decline of assistance goes something like this.... 1) A government accepts a well-meaning invitation from foreign military to assist and then what to do with with the relationship (might even be a "face saving issue") with local military ? OR 2) Allow the local military to run the show (who could also accept the invitation of foriegn military assitance ) Can 2) be implemented without declaring a State of Emergency? Have a good think about it!!

How many times does it need spelling out. They did not decline assistance.

Originally Posted by English Noodles

How many times does it need spelling out. They did not decline assistance.

"receiving "mixed" messages from the Bangkok government"

Ok, EN understand your point but what about the bigger supposition?
What's your thoughts?

After watchinhg the you tube clip of the ambassador trying to clarify how thailand did not decline us help, its pretty easy to see how this is just another talking head, just another puppet, getting paid to do and say what she is told to say. We all know what the real deal is. Thailand has to save face, a bunch of marines in the kingdom would be a hinderance to the potential coup, and even Thaksin has to wonder if the marines being here would be a good idea for him should he be able to get a ticket back in.

Does she sound like a good liar ? Of course, shes american, she is a pro. Shes not some monkey brain praying to the water gods. She is padding her wallet and gaining her political favors here in the kingdom, increasing her status and pull.

Its trying times for sure but please, lets try to keep our heads clear here. The US didn't send 4 or 5 ships over and then take a look at the situation. They accessed it first and positioned themselves to help. They didn't just all sail on over here, take a look and say "aww fuck, them seem all right..." and leave.

Today I saw on you tube foreigners and students helping with food and supplies for the needy. They loaded up a truck and when they were done a sign was posted on the truck something to the effect of "Help for the needy supplied by Thaksin"
The students were pissed off about it. Maybe the american ambassador can set us straight on that one too.

Originally Posted by Hoof Hearted

Today I saw on you tube foreigners

Crew cuts and thick necks, or skinny runts with dreadlocks?

Thailand asks US helicopters to survey floods
29 Oct 2011

As exodus of Bangkok continues, Thailand has asked a US warship to extend its stay to allow American helicopters to survey the floods.


A motorist drives through a flooded street in Bangkok
Photo: REUTERS

Two SH-60 Seahawk helicopters aboard the USS Mustin will conduct "aerial reconnaissance for the Thai government", Captain John Kirby said.

The guided-missile warship docked at Laem Chabang a few days ago for a week-long stint but "the destroyer Mustin will be staying in Thailand a little bit longer now", he said. "The Thai government has asked to have it stick around to help out."

As Thailand has faced its worst flooding in decades, the question of US military assistance has been a sensitive issue amid questions about how the Thai government has handled the crisis.

The US Navy initially sent an aircraft carrier and other ships to the area for possible assistance with relief efforts but the Bangkok government never issued a formal request for help and the vessels departed.

The Thai military also had said earlier it did not require assistance from US forces to contend with the flooding, which has gone on for three months and has left more than 377 people dead, mostly in northern and central Thailand.

After US defence officials said Washington had received "mixed messages" from Bangkok, the Pentagon issued a statement praising Thailand's response to the flooding.

Floods engulfing parts of the Thai capital should start to recede soon, according to the Thai prime minister.

The city of 12 million people was on heightened alert because of a seasonal high tide that was expected to coincide with the arrival of runoff water from the central plains, where people have endured weeks of flood misery.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who has previously warned the floods could last for weeks, said the authorities had sped up the flow of runoff through canals in the east and west of the capital.

"If everyone works hard ... then the floodwater in Bangkok will start to recede in the first week of November," Yingluck said in a weekly radio and television address to the nation.

Ms Yingluck later told reporters she expected the situation "will improve in one or two days".

She added: "Thais must closely monitor the situation during high tide. Please be a bit patient and after that I believe the water level will start to recede because the water flow is easing and part of it is flowing into canals."

Ms Yingluck, the sister of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, has been in office for barely two months and her administration has faced criticism for giving confusing advice about the extent of the flood threat.

For a third day running there was minor flooding in Bangkok's riverside areas, including by the Grand Palace, but the high tide of 2.5 metres (eight feet) above sea level was lower than feared and most of the city was dry.

Within Bangkok, residential areas in the northern outskirts of the city, as well as on the western side of the Chao Phraya river have so far been the worst hit, with water waist-deep in places.

The government warned residents in the west of the capital to stockpile tap water because supplies will be limited at times as a result of contamination from rubbish and industrial plants.

The government announced it was moving its emergency flood relief centre from the city's second airport Don Mueang after rising water led to a power blackout.

Tens of thousands of residents have left Bangkok, with many heading to coastal resorts away from the path of the water, after the government declared a special five-day holiday. Yingluck said the break might be extended.

The three-month crisis – triggered by unusually heavy monsoon rains – has left at least 381 people dead and damaged millions of homes and livelihoods, mostly in northern and central Thailand.

Most of the country's top tourist destinations and the main airport have been unaffected, although countries including the United States and Britain have advised against all but essential travel to Bangkok.

telegraph.co.uk