Thread: Baha Mousa: "Kicked and punched to death by cowards"

A fine example of "winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis".

After an eight-year campaign for justice led by this paper, a public inquiry into the killing of Iraqi civilian Baha Mousa while in British Army custody delivers its damning verdict
By Nina Lakhani

Friday, 9 September 2011


PA
Baha Mousa, 26, a widower and father of two young children, died after enduring 93 separate injuries

"Serious and gratuitous" violence by British soldiers caused the death of an Iraqi hotel worker and injuries to nine other innocent civilians, a landmark public inquiry ruled yesterday.

Baha Mousa, 26, a widower and father of two young children, died after enduring 93 separate injuries as a result of being kicked, punched and restrained by soldiers in Basra in September 2003.

He was one of 10 innocent men rounded up as suspected insurgents after weapons were found in the hotel at which seven of them worked. In addition to the assaults and humiliation, which began almost immediately upon arrest, soldiers from the 1st Battalion Queen's Lancashire Regiment subjected the men to painful and inhumane interrogation techniques that had been banned for more than 30 years.

The three-year public inquiry concluded that suspected insurgents were subjected routinely by the 1QLR to "unjustified and wholly unacceptable" hooding, stress positions, sleep deprivation, extreme noise and withholding of food and water – which contributed to Mr Mousa's death. The Ministry of Defence was found culpable of corporate and systemic failings because information about the banned techniques had been "lost", which meant it was left out from all Army guidelines and training. The MoD was also criticised for making inaccurate and misleading statements about the use of hooding and other interrogation techniques.

Sir William Gage, the inquiry chairman, said Mr Mousa had been subjected to "violent and cowardly abuse" and singled out four soldiers as those who "bear a heavy responsibility" for the "shameful events" that took place between 14 and 16 September 2003. They include Corporal Donald Payne, who orchestrated the assaults and is the only soldier to have been punished for his actions after admitting to inhumane treatment of Mr Mousa in the 2006 court martial.
The inquiry also lambasts Colonel Jorge Mendonca, the commanding officer, who "ought to have known what was going on in that building long before Baha Mousa died". He and six others were acquitted by the same court martial of all charges.

The findings will add to pressure on the Government to order a much wider independent inquiry into allegations of torture and abuse. The Government is currently facing several legal challenges on behalf of hundreds of alleged Iraqi victims which could force it to hold public inquiries into the actions of British armed forces between 2003 and 2009.

Lawyers representing the nine surviving victims and Mr Mousa's father yesterday said the 2006 court martial represented a "profound injustice", and called for civil and military prosecutors to study the report, which runs to 1,400 pages, and ensure justice is now done.

A total of 19 soldiers are named as responsible for assaults and other acts of violence against the men. Three out of the 19 individuals were senior non-commissioned officers. The soldiers were guaranteed immunity from their own evidence but could be charged using the evidence of others.

General Sir Peter Wall, head of the British Army, said yesterday that the death of Mr Mousa "cast a dark shadow" over the Army's reputation. Sir Peter has been asked by the Defence Secretary Liam Fox to consider what action could be taken against those still serving. Mr Fox, who accepted 72 of the report's 73 recommendations, described the events leading to Mr Mousa's death as "deplorable, shocking and shameful". He referred to the harrowing examples of abuse suffered by the innocent victims. Kifah Matair was kicked repeatedly to his kidney area, abdomen, ribs and genitals whenever his arms dropped from the stress position, and had his eyes gouged. The youngest, unnamed victim, 18 at the time, was forced to squat with his face directly over a toilet.

Sir William goes on to criticise the "lack of moral courage" shown by a far larger number of people who turned a blind eye to the visible abuses and injuries inflicted on the 10 men.

In a statement to Parliament, Mr Fox said: "It is clear there were serious failings in command and discipline in the First Battalion, The Queen's Lancashire Regiment ... There was a lack of clarity in the allocation of responsibility for prisoner handling process and sadly too there was a lack of moral courage to report abuse." But he rejected advice to ban "harshing" – which involves screaming at detainees during interrogation.

Next month the Court of Appeal will rule on a case involving 142 Iraqis, which is led by Ali Zaki Mousa, who was detained by British forces.

The key recommendations
* MoD should retain absolute prohibition on using hoods on captured personnel.
* Guidelines should make clear that prisoners must not be kept awake.
* When there is a death in custody, particularly if sudden or unexplained, other captives must be checked promptly.
* Where practicable, captured personnel subjected to sight deprivation or hearing deprivation should be told why.
* Guidelines should incorporate the requirement that on entry to and exit from a theatre-level detention facility, captives are asked whether or not they have any complaints about treatment.

Symptomatic of the vermin being hired for the Armed Forces these days, I'm afraid. Simply football hooligans given power to abuse.

Link

The inquiry also lambasts Colonel Jorge Mendonca, the commanding officer, who "ought to have known what was going on in that building long before Baha Mousa died". He and six others were acquitted by the same court martial of all charges.

And THAT is why they do it.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Symptomatic of the vermin being hired for the Armed Forces these days, I'm afraid. Simply football hooligans given power to abuse.

The army take ordinary young men, barely men, straight from school and do their damnedest to turn them into very well disciplined very efficient killing machines, a job they do well. It isn't that young men in today's army are thugs but that some lack the leadership to do the correct thing. Your statement is wrong and very unfair to many decent young guys doing a fine job in very often horrendous conditions.

Originally Posted by Stinky

very unfair to many decent young guys doing a fine job

what is unfair is the leadership or more correctly lack of ...............

Yup that too

Baha - fuk'em

Bwhaahahahahahahahaahahaaaa !!!

Be All You Can Be!

Originally Posted by Stinky

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Symptomatic of the vermin being hired for the Armed Forces these days, I'm afraid. Simply football hooligans given power to abuse.

The army take ordinary young men, barely men, straight from school and do their damnedest to turn them into very well disciplined very efficient killing machines, a job they do well. It isn't that young men in today's army are thugs but that some lack the leadership to do the correct thing. Your statement is wrong and very unfair to many decent young guys doing a fine job in very often horrendous conditions.

Stinky, I know many of our service personnel and I agree with you. However, they also hire some retarded thugs who are fit for no other employment, and them let them loose to commit atrocities like this.

Standards are slipping everywhere, not just the British army.

They're taking in 16, 17 year olds who can barely read or write nowadays.

I just got home last night from visiting some friends in Iraq.Even in the north of Iraq people are starting to say it was better under Saddam.

I find their actions pretty appalling,whats makes it even worse the man was innocent.
But if you flick the kill switch on some people trained or not sometimes they just get caught up in a world of violence.And they can't turn themselves off.
Officer are just as much to blame as the squaddies in this case.
Now someone is going to sue the military for compensation.
Funny though no one seems to bothered about this guy.
LiveLeak.com - Taliban shooting local police commander by 82mm rocket - Warning:Graphic

Wars are horrible events where such atrocities are part and parcel with both warring factions equally responsible in committing such crimes against humanity.

I for one have never experienced what it feels like to be part of such a horrible event but I guess it must be far from natural reality especially when fighting for a cause on foreign soil.

Collateral damage has also become a term I have learned through the press over the last 10 years and based upon the open disclosure of such events by western forces.

Whilst I feel these violent attacks are totally inhumane and unacceptable they are committed in totally unnatural conditions mostly by people who are at breaking point.

You will never be able to train people how to handle themselves under such circumstances as the battlefield is another world most people are fortunate enough to avoid.

Well said there LT, until you are placed in that situation and you cannot get a good nights sleep.

Some of these guys are not killing machines but have to survive so what would you do?

Gentlemen, this wasn't combat, the people in question were detained and bound.

It's all well and good us moaning about insurgents not adhering to the Geneva convention when it comes to abuse (and murder) of prisoners, but stooping to their level simply gives them more ammunition and support.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Gentlemen, this wasn't combat, the people in question were detained and bound.

It's all well and good us moaning about insurgents not adhering to the Geneva convention when it comes to abuse (and murder) of prisoners, but stooping to their level simply gives them more ammunition and support.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

No,but it was a combat zone.

Originally Posted by gbt71fa

Harry, just because you never served in the armed forces doesn't make you any less of a man...well, in my eyes it does but maybe not where you come from. How about all the humanitarian missions the average british soldier does abroad? They sacrifice so that others can live? They kept the peace a long time in Basrah and the south but people like you only point out the failures that are brought to the forefront. Name another country besides the U.S., Ozzies and the Brits that will prosecute their own even before the evidence is presented? Don't worry, I am sure you don't think less of yourself either...you probably should though, mate. Keep on bashing the military so it makes you feel better about yourself because you couldn't serve...wait, maybe you did and were tossed out on your head...? That must be it, you couldn't hack it....

I suspect you took a few too many blows to the head during hazing.

I'm not happy with any troops being sent in as cannon fodder to a couple of countries that don't really want them there. But I'm 100% behind the ones that are there doing what they think is right.

I'm just not for cunts like this, any more than I would be if a Taliban did it to a US or British soldier.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Stinky

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Symptomatic of the vermin being hired for the Armed Forces these days, I'm afraid. Simply football hooligans given power to abuse.

The army take ordinary young men, barely men, straight from school and do their damnedest to turn them into very well disciplined very efficient killing machines, a job they do well. It isn't that young men in today's army are thugs but that some lack the leadership to do the correct thing. Your statement is wrong and very unfair to many decent young guys doing a fine job in very often horrendous conditions.

Stinky, I know many of our service personnel and I agree with you. However, they also hire some retarded thugs who are fit for no other employment, and them let them loose to commit atrocities like this.

Thugs and psychos infect all walks of society and all different professions too, what the army try to do is train aggression into its soldiers but also to temper it with the correct mindset, Paras notwithstanding if the officers in charge had been doing their job right these men wouldn't have been able to do what they did. I don't absolve them from blame but it seems obvious that a "do what the fuck we like" mind set had taken over with these guys and the blame for that lies squarely on the shoulders of their NCOs and officers for not instilling proper acceptable procedures in the men under their command.

Just recently they have killed a man in a raid that was released from Gitmo (Ironic)


A few bad apples should not discredit all servicemen

Fukin animals. Hope that shit happens to them...

War - It's all just fun and games, until someone gets hurt.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Stinky

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Symptomatic of the vermin being hired for the Armed Forces these days, I'm afraid. Simply football hooligans given power to abuse.

The army take ordinary young men, barely men, straight from school and do their damnedest to turn them into very well disciplined very efficient killing machines, a job they do well. It isn't that young men in today's army are thugs but that some lack the leadership to do the correct thing. Your statement is wrong and very unfair to many decent young guys doing a fine job in very often horrendous conditions.

Stinky, I know many of our service personnel and I agree with you. However, they also hire some retarded thugs who are fit for no other employment, and them let them loose to commit atrocities like this.

That's how we grabbed an Empire. We sent our psychos out to the far corners of the world to grab anything worth nicking. The very same people you now see smashing up domestic and foreign shopping centres, e.g. There wasn't much press scrutiny back then is all.

Originally Posted by kmart

That's how we grabbed an Empire. We sent our psychos out to the far corners of the world to grab anything worth nicking. The very same people you now see smashing up domestic and foreign shopping centres, e.g. There wasn't much press scrutiny back then is all.

Ah yes, the "good old days".