Thread: PM to Push for Social Welfare System

Isn't Thailand a welfare state already? All but...

The poor can, and do, get healthcare nowadays.

All government jobs, and most public (I think, but some of you may wanna give your experiences here) jobs have a healthcare scheme. The super-rich are all looked-after. What to do?

The current system, whilst in need of funding and the stopping of corruption at ministerial/government level, is pretty good, imo.

Blunder, but the Thais won't notice he's softening them up for the erection.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Abhisit noted that the government will push for the National Savings Fund Bill to be considered during the current House session to provide benefits for civil servants with the aim of improving their quality of life.

This group are very far up the social welfare scale already. Why would he choose to start there???

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Isn't Thailand a welfare state already? All but...

The poor can, and do, get healthcare nowadays.

There's no welfare - for starters, there's no state pension and no unemployment benefit - so it's hard to see how Thailand could qualify as a welfare state. The 30-baht scheme is hardly cradle-to-grave socialism.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The current system, whilst in need of funding and the stopping of corruption at ministerial/government level, is pretty good, imo.

Yep, it's just great if you're a 70 year-old who is unable to work due to ill health and has no family or savings.

Do you know what assistance a person in that situation would receive from the government?

Tis true.

I was thinking of the healthcare system rather than the socail welfare system; silly me... Well pointed out.

p.s. not sure why Abhisit is starting so high up society by helping out the civil servants (the group he is a member of) rather than the people who are in need...

people over 60 with no income receive an allowance of 1,000 THB per month, not much but it's a start

^ well pointed out, Papillion. Grteat post; you're a valueable member of the team.

Bettyboo,
don't kid your self.
The health system here is not all as good as it sounds. I f you have no choice at all but to use the 30 baht card, and there are many thousands who have to, you are last in the longest queue in Thailand.

At present my wife is in hospital and was told if she used the 30 baht card she may as well stay home as she would wait some time for attention.

Go to any of the big public hospitals in Bangkok and see the sheer mass waiting to be seen to. Not enough doctors, not enough beds, not enough nurses, etc. but plenty of civil servants running the system at their speed.....dead slow. As in all Govt. Depts.

HAWKEYE

^ and the worst part is that the previous system was working, and it was cheaper than 30THB a visit, but it wasn't advertised by the grandiose PR machine of Khun Thaksin press office

they scrapped a better system for a "PR" machine one,

I mean why not make it free instead of 30 THB ? it's all about marketing, bring some kind of value concept in the product being promoted

"free" doesn't sell,

A fine concept but doomed to be shredded through corruption, undermined by those who feel that the downtrodden enjoy their status for a reason, and finally doomed to trip at an early hurdle since any leader that dares to do more than talk about it knows better than to get into a long novel.

Or could just be some cynicism creeping through.

Originally Posted by hawkeye

Bettyboo,
don't kid your self.
The health system here is not all as good as it sounds. I f you have no choice at all but to use the 30 baht card, and there are many thousands who have to, you are last in the longest queue in Thailand.

At present my wife is in hospital and was told if she used the 30 baht card she may as well stay home as she would wait some time for attention.

Go to any of the big public hospitals in Bangkok and see the sheer mass waiting to be seen to. Not enough doctors, not enough beds, not enough nurses, etc. but plenty of civil servants running the system at their speed.....dead slow. As in all Govt. Depts.

HAWKEYE

I see your point, but don't agree entirely, because:

My missus' father was told at his local hospital, NN, that he'd loose his eyesight bit by bit. He came down to Bkk, 30 baht scheme somehow, went to the military hospital at VM and had his eyes done; perfect.

My missus' mother had crappy eyes too, but she lives in Bkk, with us, and goes to a big hospital on the 30 baht scheme; got both eyes done; perfect. She's also nuts (both!) and see's the looney doctor every month, on the 30 baht scheme, and everything is fine.

Yes, the hospitals are underfunded and full of the normal hospital problems, but coming from London, my local hospital was Chase Farm, I can tell you that the 30 baht scheme here is better and quicker than I'd expect at Chase Farm Hospital (London), so it really ain't that bad at all.

I've been to hospitals in Korea, Mongolia and China (never mind Cambodia, Laos or Vietnam), and Thailand has got a decent system that provides for everyone, to some degree.

Of course, there is not an infinite amount of money in the healthcare pot, so you'll not always get treated that minute, but wait around and you will get seen that day, likely treated that day or within a couple of weeks - the UK has waiting lists of months and years. I repeat, the Thai system is not bad at all.

For me, I've been to three hospitals over the last 10 years: Sirriraj, Bumrumgrad and Mission; all were excellent, far better than Chase Farm hospital that was my local in London and was utter shite.

That's my experience anyway.

I'd be a bit wary of comparing national healthcare systems based on one or two experiences and if you do, you should compare Chase Farm with whatever the local hospital is - the one where your father-in-law couldn't get his eyes done. But if you look at things like doctors per capita, it doesn't look so great. Britain has something like 6 times as many doctors per person and within Thailand there are enormous regional differences. The North, for example, has twice as many doctors per person as Isaan but Bangkok has almost 40% of all the doctors in the country. And I don't think it's entirely coincidence that it's the Medical Faculty at Chula that is the yellowest of the yellow.

Originally Posted by hawkeye

Bettyboo,
don't kid your self.
The health system here is not all as good as it sounds. I f you have no choice at all but to use the 30 baht card, and there are many thousands who have to, you are last in the longest queue in Thailand.

At present my wife is in hospital and was told if she used the 30 baht card she may as well stay home as she would wait some time for attention.

Go to any of the big public hospitals in Bangkok and see the sheer mass waiting to be seen to. Not enough doctors, not enough beds, not enough nurses, etc. but plenty of civil servants running the system at their speed.....dead slow. As in all Govt. Depts.

HAWKEYE

Much in what you say. Can't talk for the 30bt healthcare system, but a plug for Thai hospitals. For routine stuff I normally go Thai, if it feels serious I'm on a plane, and for intermediate I go to Bkk-Pty with little confidence based on experience.

Thai hospitals are great for low maintenance if you don't feel like paying 2k for an air conditioned lounge, and must say they're more efficient than I expected.

On one visit to a Thai hospital they diagnosed something different from what I thought, so I went for a second opinion at the Bkk-Pty, and they confirmed; a confidence builder that the Thai hospital picked it up. Medication was the same except that Bkk-Pty gave an extra pack of pills. Cost was 2,300k at Bkk-Pty vs 245 bt at the Thai hospital which included extra tests and I'm exempt from anyway if I bother to claim which I don't. Timewise, about 40 mins at Bkk-Pty from logging in to getting the script, and about 3.5 hours at the Thai hospital which includes an hour for lunch break. Then allowance can be made for decor and smiles and wais.

Hope your wife's better now. Is she at a regular hospital or a military hospital? From what I understand, military hospitals have better facilities and also better doctors. If in Pty worth keeping in mind the Queen Sirikit (military) hospital between Satahip and BanChang. They also have a private wing which is cheaper and can hold its own against a farang hospital.

More detailed posts on this matter coming up...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loca...tate-on-agenda

NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

Govt puts welfare state on agenda

• Published: 14/09/2010 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

The government plans to press ahead with its scheme to develop a social welfare state and put an end to populist policies, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva says.

The plan to transform the country into a social welfare state is on the national agenda, Mr Abhisit told a seminar on social welfare organised yesterday by parliament and the Social Development and Human Security Ministry.

The prime minister said the government would ensure adequate social welfare benefits reached every possible segment of society within six to seven years.

The plan to create a social welfare system was a key feature of the 11th national economic and social development plan.

Mr Abhisit said past governments tended to roll out measures in the form of charity to help poor people. Those in power were selective as to who they wanted to help and when.

He said a social welfare state policy was intended to address social, economic and political problems.

Welfare schemes must be designed to eradicate poverty as many poor people still had no access to public health services and were still deprived of basic human needs, which contribute to social inequalities. This has adverse repercussions on national security.

Mr Abhisit said Thailand would become an ageing society in the next 20 years and the government must make preparations to ensure there were enough funds to look after elderly people.

He said the government would steer clear of populist policies as the public deserved the right to welfare provided by the state no matter who was in power.

State welfare should not be thought of as an act of politicians dispensing favours and largesse to the poor.

"State welfare is a right that the people deserve to enjoy," he said, Mr Abhisit said a study by the Asian Development Bank showed "charity measures" only covered between 60% and 70% of the target groups while the rest were still in dire need of assistance and had been left in the lurch.He said the government must also ensure welfare schemes, which would be funded by high taxes, must not put a strain on state spending.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30137911.html

WELFARE SEMINAR
Comprehensive system 'within 6-7 years'


By Jeerapong Prasertpholkrang
The Nation
Published on September 14, 2010

PM says it must not be a burden on society


Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday explained his vision of social welfare as a national agenda issue and the aim of providing comprehensive welfare by 2016-17.

Speaking at a seminar entitled "The future of Thai society and social welfare", Abhisit said every citizen should have a guarantee for their well-being and security.

However, a social welfare system should not put a heavy financial burden on the state coffers and lead eventually to the need to hike tax rates.

"We should start laying down the foundations for social welfare - but must be cautious and ensure that the budgets are not out of control."

"For example, the current monthly Bt500-per-person welfare for senior citizens is not enough to cover the cost of living, but if we raised the allowance to Bt1,000, then we would have to use another Bt40-50 billion in state funds.

"Given this, we should provide basic welfare as a right for the people, and then the people themselves may contribute to a national co-savings scheme in which individuals and the government are joint contributors," he said.

Demographically, Thailand was inching closer to an ageing society - so the country needed to prepare a welfare system for the next 20 years. Otherwise, the country would face a critical shortage of revenue.

A good welfare system, he said, must be inclusive and cover every Thai citizen, and not allow politicians to abuse it for their own gains.

Suwanee Kamman, deputy secretary-general of the National Economic and Social Development Board, said the central government had been responsible for 35 per cent of the country's total welfare costs from 2005-08.

During the same period, the private sector shouldered 29 per cent of the cost, compared to 31 per cent by the household sector, and 4.4 per cent by local communities.

Chinchai Chi-charern, a deputy director of the national social welfare commission, said Thailand should adopt a combination of measures to suit its society and conditions.

"We must ensure that the welfare system really helps the needy. Second, those who have reasonable income must co-pay for the welfare - such as via a national co-saving scheme, the farmers' welfare scheme, and community welfare scheme.

"Third, some basic social services must be free, such as education and allowances for the disabled. Fourth, businesses must be promoted to be givers to society via voluntary schemes," he said.

Wutthisan Tanchai of Thammasat University said the social welfare system should include both western welfare measures and Thai aspects, such as the role of local communities and entrepreneurs, as well as balanced management of resources.

So it's government-administered insurance, not welfare. If you're not raising money through progressive taxation and making transfer payments to the poor, then it's a bit hard to see how this will qualify as turning Thailand into a welfare state. A few weeks ago, some cockmonkey from the government was talking about financing this through a hike in VAT, which is simply taking money from the poor, funneling it through the govenment and the returning whatever fraction is left to the same people.

Fourth, businesses must be promoted to be givers to society via voluntary schemes

Oh for fuck's sake. Yeah, that'll solve Thailand's problems, won't it. Sigh.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/poli...lls-forum-told

Welfare state is answer to social ills, forum told

• Published: 15/10/2010 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Thailand should strive towards a welfare society as an answer to economic inequality, a technocrat says.

If it does not take action, there could be a recurrance of the social conflicts similar to the Oct 14, 1973, democracy uprising and the Oct 6, 1976, crackdown on the pro-democracy movement, Somkiat Tangkitvanij yesterday told a panel discussion to mark the Oct 14, 1973, uprising.

Thai household income is low. Income discrepancies and social inequalities are eroding democracy, but the government is doing little to tackle the problem, the vice-president of the Thailand Development Research Institute said.

"The income gap between urban and rural people is as wide as 68%," Mr Somkiat said.

"The head of the average Thai family has less than eight years of formal education, and only 17% of Thai family heads have social security cover."

The income gap between Thais was vast in the lead-up to the Oct 14, 1973, uprising.

The government's attempts to create a fairer distribution of income in the aftermath of the uprising upset the nation's rich and the social elite, which led to the violent crackdown on the democracy movement three years later, he said.

Thailand should create a welfare society to avoid a repeat of such a costly experience, Mr Somkiat said.

The Abhisit Vejjajiva government had failed to push policies other than mere populism - big-spending policies which appeal to the grass roots but which have little lasting effect on the economy and could even leave them in debt.

The government should create basic infrastructure for a welfare society to reduce social gaps, Mr Somkiat said.

All households should share the increased taxation burden needed for a welfare state.

Universal or partial welfare coverage should be extended to citizens, while "unnecessary" subsidies such as education loans should be cut.

"India has a 'workfare' system - meaning those who receive welfare have to pay back the debt to society in the form of social works such as taking care of minors and the disabled," he said.

"But really, the government must set aside a sizeable budget for human capital development and expand the tax base to increase revenue."

Nualnoi Treerat, a Chulalongkorn University associate professor on economics, said addressing economic inequality was important but other social injustices also need to be solved.

"Dealing with tax and welfare measures could address the income distribution gap but not other social inequalities," Ms Nualnoi said.

"The rich and well-educated gain better access to public welfare, and better quality services."

The government should empower the poor to stand on their own two feet to avoid being sidelined by the rich. This could be achieved through expanding democratic participation and power decentralisation.

The government is handing down power to local administrative organisations but this step does not go far enough.

"We have yet to see real measures from the government in this direction," she said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30140742.html

Panel looks at 'no cost' education for poor families

By Supinda Na Mahachai
The Nation
Published on October 25, 2010


A plan to offer "no cost" education to poor students will be put to the prime minister shortly, Khunying Kasama Varavarn na Ayudhaya said recently.

Kasama, a former secretary general of the Office of Basic Education Commission (Obec), is now chairwoman of a panel responsible for providing Thais more access to education under a policy reform committee chaired by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

She said her subcommittee was preparing to propose the idea to the premier to give truly free education to students from very poor families.

The idea is adopted from the National Health Security Office's "Gold Card" healthcare scheme that allows people to receive free treatment at hospitals.

She said the government's compulsory education scheme allocated Bt70 billion to pay for students' tuition fees, textbooks, uniforms, educational tools and student development activities and other schemes offering free lunch and milk.

But it was not enough for many poor students to maintain their studies, as the scheme did not cover other expenses such as travel and breakfast costs. Many had to drop out. So this group of students needed special support.

The subcommittee is studying in detail what kinds of expenses it should include in the proposal to provide "no cost" education to prevent dropouts.

Kasama said the subcommittee was studying a project that seeks to get children who have dropped out back to schools in four pilot provinces - Nakhon Sawan, Udon Thani, Nakhon Si Thammarat and Chiang Mai - to find out what expenses the poor students face and how much they cost.

She said the subcommittee would also propose allocating money directly to individual students. The government should not allocate the money to schools. It was studying qualifications for eligible students as well.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...w-economic-gap

Government told to narrow economic gap

• Published: 29/11/2010 at 04:29 PM
• Online news: Economics

The private sector urges the government to narrow the economic gap by bringing a balanced welfare system.

Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) chairman Kosit Panpiemras said at an academic seminar on Monday the economic gap is caused by four factors:

1. Government policy has widened the gap, as can be seen from the special privileges granted to capitalists, while corruption has become more prevalent, allowing rich people to accumulate more wealth.

2. The growing economy has not created more productive jobs, which has led to more informal workers, fewer taxpayers, a narrow tax base and unfair tax reductions.

3. The economic infrastructure development has shown that past developments did not help enhance the country's competitiveness. There is insufficient promotion of technology and innovation.

4. Thailand still lacks basic welfare provision, as reflected by the large number of informal workers in the country, and the government's welfare system has not reached the less fortunate. Education opportunities and training must be highlighted to help raise income levels.

"The Thai economy has progressed well and is more prosperous, and the number of poor people has dropped.

"However, poverty is no longer the main problem but the quality of development has to be addressed.

"The economic gap in Thailand is as high as in countries in Latin America and it has an impact on the political situation till this day," the former finance and industry minister said.


TDRI chairman Kosit Panpiemras

Mr Kosit, speaking before the Constitution Court handed down its verdict said of the case went against the ruling Democrat Party that the verdict would not affect the country's economy.

The judges voted four to two to drop the electoral funding fraud case against the ruling party on grounds that the petition process was unlawful from the beginning.

However, the TDRI chairman said, the Democrat dissolution case would have a short-term impact on the economy regardless of the outcome.

He said the country's economy for next year should expand four per cent year-on-year, as initially projected.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) composite index soared by more than 16 points in the afternoon as investors welcomed the court’s verdict on the Democrat dissolution case.

At 3.02pm, the SET index stood at 1008.30, up 16.68 points or 1.68 per cent. The trade value was 17.64 billion baht.

Thanachart Securities marketing senior director Pichai Lertsupomgkij said the court’s ruling had helped ease investors' concerns about political uncertainty.

But the risk factors pressuring the capital market are still the financial crisis in Europe and the conflict between South and North Korea.

Office of Industrial Economics director-general Suttinee Poopaka said Thailand's manufacturing production index last month stood at 191.57 points, down 4.91 per cent from September 2010.

Mrs Suttinee said the MPI for September was 201.45 points.

The capacity utilisation rate for last month was 64.11 per cent.

not even worth a com.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1038201

Business Sector Supports Renewal of Living Cost Cutting Measures

UPDATE : 7 December 2010

The private sector is encouraging the government to renew its living cost reduction measures for another six months, in an effort to boost consumer confidence and help the general public .

The Thai Chamber of Commerce executive Pornsil Pacharintanakul voiced support for the government's decision to extend subsidies to assist people by reducing their living expenses.

Prior to the extension, the measures that are in place now were set to expire at the end of the year.

He said the programs that provide free electricity and subsidies for cooking gas are most important and that these measures should be extended by another six months at least.

Pornsil reasoned that in 2011, consumer will face a number of economic risk factors, particularly from the weak global economic situation.


He believes the economy will grow by four to five percent next year as was foretasted, but despite the possible slowdown in exports, he is confident that this will be offset by investments.

The government’s cost of living reduction measures that will be expiring at the end of the year include free electricity for smaller households, free non air conditioned buses, and free third class train service.

Unless extended, the fixed cost for cooking gas will end in February of next year.

And how will all of these slick ideas be paid for? Usually it is the middle class, ooopppss but there is no middle class in Thailand. Sounds like a lot of lip service and wishful thinking on the politicians part which will all be pulled out from under the poor in Thailand. Being socialistic has to be paid by someone and that is usually done from a tax percentage around 60-80%. Since the masses in Thailand make close to zero already, guess what that comes out to?
All not sounding very realistic to me.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2010...-30143986.html

Welfare to be expanded

By The Nation
Published on December 8, 2010


Temporary workers included in govt plans; Opposition slams populist policies 'aimed at swaying votes'

The government is expected to announce on December 17 a planned revision of the Social Security Act to welcome some categories of the country's 24 million workers with temporary jobs into the welfare system.

The move is part of a new round of populist policies that have been heavily criticised by the opposition for attempting to influence the way people vote.

A paper obtained by Nation News Network shows that the workers could be included in the social-security net within two months of the revision of Article 40 of the act, which should take between two and five months to accomplish.

"This will make history," said a person familiar with the committee working on the new set of policies.

The committee proposed that temporary workers should contribute Bt100, Bt180 or Bt280 per month to the Social Security Fund, and that the government's contribution should be half that amount.

The policies are also expected to cover measures to raise the income of taxi drivers and taxi motorcyclists. The plan is to have the latter registered, in return for easier access to welfare and loans.

The Fiscal Policy Office in its Macro Morning Focus yesterday gave its support to the inclusion of temporary workers in the welfare system, saying that it could boost domestic consumption, which now contributes 50 per cent of the economy. These workers currently have no support in terms of health and revenue insurance, it said.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva last week said that aside from extending the social-security network to cover six categories of people - including street vendors, motorcycle taxi drivers and night workers - the policies would cover the new pricing structure for liquefied petroleum gas for household and industrial use, as well as the monitoring of consumer-product prices in line with production costs. The plans will cover immediate measures designed to improve living standards, job security and access to capital and education.

Yesterday, the private sector endorsed the proposed hike in minimum wages by Bt10-Bt11 per day, while the government approved the Government Savings Bank's Bt2-billion loan to flood-hit temporary workers.

Moreover, the Commerce Ministry plans to seek Cabinet approval to freeze consumer-product prices for three more months to end-March in light of rising oil prices.

Abhisit yesterday insisted that his welfare policy was aimed at reducing disparity, and denied the opposition's claim that he had the ulterior motive of jump-starting a campaign to sway votes.

"I have always made known my stand to improve the welfare system," he said, adding that the move was well planned and not a hasty attempt to gain popularity.

"The ultimate goal for Thailand's reform is to reduce the social disparity and injustice existing in the social structure."

He also said the national reform panel chaired by former prime minister Anand Panyarachun would augment the push.

Pheu Thai Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit cast doubt on the government, questioning whether it was promoting social welfare or churning out populist measures designed to buy votes.

"The way I see it, the government is spreading money around - and this is taxpayers' money - to win the people's support," he said.

The government has no vision for how to run the country, he said, voicing suspicion about the timing of unveiling the social welfare plans to coincide with Sunday's by-election.

He called on the Election Commission to launch a probe into what he sees as foul play by the government in an attempt to buy votes.