Thread: The independent commission on the death and violence during the red-shirt protest,

Originally Posted by sabang

One would have thought that, for reasons of impartiality, the first thing PT would have done upon assuming office would have been to arrest and detain a number of Yellow shirts- who's alleged offences considerably predate the many Red shirts being held in detention. The fact that they haven't has, predictably, been ignored by the Bangkok press, but certainly will not have failed to be noticed by the Reds, and the people of Thailand generally.

Clearly, the Yingluck administration is putting reconciliation, rather than the impartial administration of Justice, first. It occurs to me that only they can pursue this path- the Abhisit administration was too compromised and blatantly biased, not to mention mired in it's web of patronage, to be anything more than paralysed in this regard. One more compelling reason why it was good to see the end of the Abhisit administration- they were paralysed by their own misdeeds and obligations.

The sanctimonious squeals from the mendacious hypocrites of the Bangkok media are of course a given, but the more I look at and think about this, the more I am of the view that the reconciliation (and inevitably, amnesty) process should be fast tracked. Sweep out the cobwebs and start anew, that is what Yingluck really represents. Many Red shirts will have legitimate reasons for grievance, but you practically cannot arrest and punish every criminal in a country that rejected the Constitution and systematically ignored the Rule of Law and administration of Justice at the very highest level. Seeing as the administration of the Sword of Justice diligently and impartially isn't feasible, and Yingluck has the fairness and good sense not to pursue a biased witch hunt (unlike Abhisit etc), then obviously the reconciliation/ amnesty process should be administered impartially.

In real terms, that means the PAD criminals, Coup conspirators, Crackdown miscreants etc will get off lightly. Whilst I can surely understand some hurt feelings about that, the interests of the Nation going forward must come first. At least many of those most hurt can take some solace in the fact that Thaksin will be able to return to his native land, and the blatantly biased verdicts of the previous systematic judicial witch hunt will have been overturned. It is better for Thailand to put this sorry episode behind it sooner, rather than later.

Intelligent post like that here will attract some whose masters are

Originally Posted by sabang

The sanctimonious squeals from the mendacious hypocrites of the Bangkok media are of course a given, but the more I look at and think about this, the more I am of the view that the reconciliation (and inevitably, amnesty) process should be fast tracked.

Agree with you... the sooner the better for everyone, apart from the "seriously dumb" amongst us continuing to see RED whenever Taki is mentioned.

Of course the reconciliation process was paid lip service by Abhishit and his cohorts for long enough and now the process should be implemented and given a fair chance to work even by the "seriously dumb" amongst us both Farang and Thai!

With Sabang and BG

Thailand has spent too much time looking at it's past and present rather than it's future. Only hope that the Elite and Military do not see this as a sign of weakness.

Sabang, reconciliation is part of the long history of Thailand. All past misdeeds have been whitewashed. Until accountability is taken and the never-ending cycle of impunity is ended, then this country will never change. The entire pile is built upon not taking responsibility. It is endemic.

Such a thing allows for those in power to abuse their position again and again. They know they can do what the hell they want and no one will ever call them to account.

I am rather surprised you are taking this rather odd stance. You were very vocal previously in decrying the Democrats and the army and the deaths that were caused as part of their decisions.

Personally I want to see justice.

Robert Amsterdam and the red shirt leaders have also called for justice. Their entire line of attack of Abhisit's last year was built upon such injustice.

I think the families of those who died deserve it. Apparently you don't anymore.

I completely disagree with your sudden change. It seems rather strange....

Try to imagine that it was your child murdered in Bangkok. I would hope that you would want justice.

TRCT's recommendations to PM | Prachatai English

TRCT's recommendations to PM

Wed, 28/09/2011 - 18:10 | by prachatai Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand

Recommendations of the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT) towards the policies in bringing reconciliation and solidarity among people in the nation and restoring democracy

Dear Madame Prime Minister,

Reference is made to the Regulation of the Prime Minister on the Truth for National Reconciliation B.E. 2553 (2010) which established the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT) to investigate and determine the truth and facts, which are the root causes of the conflict problem and violent incidents, to apparently reveal the causes of the problem with the aim of building mutual understanding and providing remedy to affected persons, which will contribute to the prevention of future violence and the promotion of long-term reconciliation of the country. In this regard, the Regulation sets out that the reports and recommendations shall be made to the Cabinet and the public.

As the Prime Minister (Ms. Yingluck Shinawatra) stated the policies to the Parliament on Tuesday, 23 August 2011, TRCT appreciates that the government determined that the creation of reconciliation and solidarity among people in the nation and the restoration of democracy are the urgent policies to be proceeded in the first year, and hopes that the government will fully accommodate and support the independent operation of the TRCT as declared in the policies.

From its past operation, TRCT presented recommendations to the Prime Minister on 2 occasions regarding the use of chains on detainees and the fundamental rights of accused persons in criminal proceedings as well as the 8 recommendations contained in the First Interim Report of the TRCT. TRCT would like to inform that although the mentioned recommendations were presented to the previous government, they were general in their nature and did not specifically address to any government. Thus TRCT requests that the government take the past recommendations of the TRCT into consideration and proceed with the recommendations in a concrete manner in order to continuously create supportive environment for reconciliation of the country. Furthermore, TRCT has the honor to present the recommendations on important issues to the Prime Minister as follows:

1. TRCT is of the opinion that during the time the conflict still exists in Thai society, the government should have a political view to adhere to the rule of law while governing the country by respecting the law and holding the interest of the nation above all. The government shall proceed with the measures to reduce the conflict by examining that officials under the responsibility of the executive branch strictly abide by law; allowing people who experience unfairness to access to justice system; providing legal aid to people and accused persons when needed; and investigating and urging all parties responsible for violent incidents including the government officials to enter into justice system to be equally adjudicated whereby placing importance on human dignity and human rights.

2. While the conflict still exists and the Thai society begins to hope for overcoming the conflict to achieve reconciliation, TRCT would like to request all parties involved in the conflict – the government, those involved in the supervision and control of the use of state power, political parties, political groups, and many agencies – to be highly cautious in committing any act which could affect a supportive atmosphere for reconciliation. In particular, the government whose election victory partially stemmed from the campaign supporting reconciliation should be especially careful by avoiding any act which could provoke the increase of conflict. TRCT is well aware that amid the stream of ongoing conflicts, it is difficult for the government to appear impartial from the viewpoints of all parties. However, the reconciliation of people in the nation could be achieved only if the government which supervises the use of state power has strong determination, tolerance and perseverance to lead the country towards the reconciliation process in earnest.

3. TRCT opines that the political conflict situation during the past time was a significant cause of the violence and the violation of criminal law by various involved parties. The violence and the violation of criminal law in this character are not considered as a behavior which generally occurs in the society in a normal condition without such political conflict because the violation is fundamentally based upon political perspectives. Hence, even if the illegal behavior, which affects and results in damages to individuals and the public, requires perpetrators to have appropriate legal accountability, in many occasions the criminal responsibility derived from the prosecution and criminal punishment may not solely be in conformity with the punishment philosophy and unable to render justice and solve the conflict problem. Because perpetrators who have political motivations are different from typical criminal perpetrators who are inherently villains and criminals, the punishment of a violent behavior in this respect could not result in the deterrence of perpetrators themselves and the entire public according to the common philosophy of punishment. Moreover, the prosecution of criminal cases correlated with the political conflict could encounter the problem from the limitation of the investigation process, the accusation, and the evidence and witness gathering, viewed as being impartial and biased for the advantage of those control the state power in each period.
For this reason, TRCT conceives that the prosecution of criminal cases according to the Royal Decree on Public Administration in Emergency Situation B.E. 2548 (2005), the offence of unlawful assembly of ten or more persons under Section 215 of Criminal Code and other relevant cases during the incidents of political violence before and after the 19 September 2006 coup including the cases concerning the lèse majesté under Section 112 of Penal Code and Computer Related Crime Act B.E. 2550 (2007) are all correlated with the political conflict. The government should thus proceed with the prosecution of such offences as follows:

3.1 Expedite the examination to clarify whether the accusation and the prosecution against accused persons and defendants are consistent with the circumstances of the commission and review whether the accusation is unduly harsh or the evidence is too weak to prove the guilt.

3.2 Proceed in earnest with a temporary release which is a fundamental right of accused persons and defendants in order to enable accused persons and defendants to defend their cases to prove innocence and to reduce effects from the restriction of freedoms on themselves and families. The relevant authorities, such as investigating officers and prosecutors, should file petitions to the court to provide information relating to accused persons and defendants whether or not there is a reason to abscond, a reason to destroy evidence or a reason to cause harm to the society if a temporary release is granted. If no such reasons exist, the legal principle in protecting the fundamental right to a temporary release of accused persons and defendants should be affirmed. With regard to the temporary release, although Section 110 of the Criminal Procedure Code does not require a bail, the agencies of justice system have required the bail in practice. This practice has not been in accordance with the legal principle and caused substantial damage to the justice system as it opened channel to a “professional bailer”, which is illegal in the justice system, to grasp a chance to constantly take advantage over the rights and freedoms of individuals. Likewise, an “insurance company” also takes advantage over the rights and freedoms of individuals. The permission to the “insurance company” to take advantage in this manner originated from the government policy in one era which lacked understanding of the legal principle. However, the solution to a root cause of the problem, which is a correct understanding of the legal principle, cannot be made at this moment because this problem involves the legal education, legal perspectives of those applying the law, and etc. In the case the court allows the temporary release on bail, it is righteous that the government should provide such bail to all accused persons and defendants who cannot procure the bail according to the past practice. In this respect, it should be aware that the harsh accusation of accused persons and defendants is not a reason for not allowing the temporary release according to the law.

3.3 The accused persons and defendants are not villains or criminals as in a regular criminal case but they are accused of committing the offence for the fundamental reason of achieving political goals. Consequently, provided that the accused persons and defendants are not granted the temporary release, the government should arrange for an appropriate place of detention which is not a common prison to detain accused persons and defendants as used with political prisoners in the past.

3.4 These criminal cases correlates with the ongoing political conflict during the past years as the perpetrators have political motivations and the ongoing conflict problem has an important root cause from the situation of Thai society being in transition. Therefore, the principle of criminal justice which solely uses the criminal prosecution measure for the purpose of punishment to solve the conflict problem is not suitable with the problem situation. It is thus appropriate to study and apply the theories of transitional justice and restorative justice in order to properly apply their principles and methods as well as experiences of foreign countries encountering severe conflicts with the situation in Thailand.

As a consequence, while studying on how to properly apply various measures with the conflict situation in Thailand, there should be a request for the cooperation from prosecutors to delay the prosecution of these criminal cases by not bringing the cases to the court and waiting until the information is complete in every aspect – the correct and reliable information concerning circumstances of the case, the overall information regarding the causes of the problem, the information on academic principles pertaining to legal measures under the framework of transitional justice and restorative justice – to enable prosecutors to have full and complete information for public interest evaluation as well as appropriate criminal measures before ordering the cases.

4. TRCT believes that the reparation and restoration of all parties affected from violent incidents is an important condition for bringing reconciliation in the nation. The state has the responsibility to protect the rights of people and prevent the violence, which affects the rights to life, body, and property of individuals and the society. Hence, when the state fails to prevent violent incidents, the state has the duty to provide the reparation for damages against individuals and restoration of the society. The government should promptly and decisively proceed with the reparation at least by following the guidelines as follows:

4.1 The reparation in this case is different from the reparation in a normal case because it represents the state responsibility for lacking adequate and effective mechanisms to take the political conflict under control and to proceed though peaceful means until the violence causes damages to individuals and the society. Moreover, it represents that the state is aware of and recognizes the pain and loss of all affected parties and will be responsible for such pain and loss in order to enable those affected to live normally. Therefore, the reparation in this case could not depend upon the principles and measures as ordinarily used by the state in the case of disaster victims, or the principles of remuneration paid to injured persons, compensation, expenses in criminal cases, and etc. The government must employ a special measure, which does not adhere to existing rights under the legal framework and practices of agencies and organizations in a normal case, in order for the reparation to result in preventing future violent incidents and bringing reconciliation in the nation.
4.2 The government should urgently and continuously provide reparation to all affected parties. The target group for the reparation should not limit only to those affected from the April - May 2010 incident but should cover those affected from the violent incidents related to the political conflicts from the period prior to the 19 September 2006 coup onward. This should include people, government officials, mass media and private sector as well as families of affected persons. In addition, the scope of the reparation and restoration should be extended to those affected at the level of area, community and society, particularly the residential neighborhoods and commercial areas affected from the demonstrations and violent incidents.

4.3 The government should determine the reparation framework broadly to be consistent with the actual situation of the incidents and to cover various types of loss, physically and mentally, including economic loss and loss of opportunity of affected persons; suffering and pain physically and mentally from the violent incidents; identity loss; loss of career, residence, occupation, opportunity and expected profit; and restoration expenses. The government must be aware that the reparation can be proceeded in various ways, differently and jointly, with no limitation to monetary reparation only. Because each of affected persons and families are affected similarly and differently, the reparation and restoration must be appropriate with each of them in order to ensure effective reparation and contribute to the reconciliation. In this regard, some of those affected need money due to poverty and economic distress; some of them need apology to restore the honor of deceased and injured persons; some need occupation and career opportunities; some need justice by bringing perpetrators to justice system; some need mental reparation, and etc.

4.4 The government should establish an ad hoc committee with a mandate to strenuously provide reparation to all affected parties. The ad hoc committee must be effective in order to serve as a center in coordinating the budgetary aid for the systematic, thorough and continuous reparation.

5. Besides those affected from the violent incidents, the reparation of those who have faced unfair trials, which is a significant target group, is also a condition for bringing reconciliation in the nation. The perception that they are accused of committing offences and prosecuted unfairly by being accused of committing offences which are unduly harsh, the denial of temporary release, and the lack of opportunities to defend their cases have affected them personally and their families in terms of both monetary and mental aspects. These inevitably require urgent reparation. The perception that the justice system fails to render justice but it turns into a mechanism causing injustice is a grave matter. It could lead to the resentment and the lack of faith in the justice system and rapidly becomes an issue for forming an ideological united front with the acrimony against the government. These are a grave danger to the peace and stability of the country. From the above mentioned reasons, TRCT is of the opinion that the reparation for the group of those facing unfair trials because of their demonstrations should be proceeded as follows:

5.1 The guaranty of fundamental rights in the justice system of demonstrators and involved persons who are detained in prisons throughout the country should be expedited. The accusation should be examined to ensure that it is not unduly harsh. The list of detained persons and relevant defendants should be updated to be complete and current. The categorization of detained persons and defendants in various groups should be made again systematically. The reparation of those affected, who are left off from such list or who have not received the reparation, should be provided rapidly.

5.2 The remuneration should be paid to the defendant after there is a final judgment by the court to dismiss the case without taking into consideration whether the court delivers the judgment that the defendant is innocent or not.

5.3 In respect of the defendants against whom the judges deliver final judgments of conviction or denial of release, there should be the support provided to the families of these defendants in humanitarian aspect. After the acquittal, the government should impose the policy in providing support and advice concerning their occupations and careers to reduce acrimony and help restore them back to the society.

6. TRCT is concerned with the situation pertaining to the prosecution of cases concerning the lèse majesté under Section 112 of Criminal Code and Computer Related Crime Act B.E. 2550 (2007), which apparently increase in terms of number of cases, that it could have political impact. TRCT believes that although the government has the obligation to vigorously protect the monarchy highly regarded by Thai people with the utmost reverence from being defamed and violated by inappropriate behaviors and acts, the use of measures of criminal prosecution regardless of the criminal policy and the control guidelines for proper enforcement can implicate complicated effects at both the national level during the political conflict and the international level which places importance on the freedom of expression. At present, the political development and the enforcement of lèse majesté in Thailand phenomenally become the issues of interest for the United Nations, international organizations relating to human rights, and several countries.

Consequently, TRCT conceives the use of lèse majesté during this period is directly related to political conflict inside the country. The appropriate solution of this problem will result in a positive effect to the monarchy and play a significant role in mitigating the conflict of the country to help achieve reconciliation. In this respect, TRCT is of the opinion that it should be proceeded as follows:

6.1 In this sensitive situation, TRCT opines that the government must proceed in every way by taking cognizance of the final goal, which is the protection and respectfulness of the monarchy to maintain its status with the most exalted honor. The government should strictly and stringently proceed against those who defame and violate with malice against the monarchy but should not excessively impose criminal measures without direction and regard to the sensitivity of the case, which could subsequently affect the monarchy domestically and internationally.

6.2 All parties involved in the conflict must proceed in every way to express their reverence to hold the monarchy above political conflict and stop referring to the monarchy for political advantage either directly or indirectly. A pertinent solution of the problem at its root cause could be done by the serious discussion among relevant politicians, political parties, and political groups to determine appropriate measures which will result in holding the revered monarchy above political conflict.

6.3 The government should provide for the unity and integration of agencies involving the enforcement of law concerning lèse majesté cases. They should have a mechanism with a capability to determine appropriate criminal policy and to categorize the cases by considering the degree of the behavior, intention, motivation for the commission, status of the perpetrator, and overall context of the situation leading to the commission.
The actual problem situation in the Thai society in the present time should be taken into consideration that the political conflict like this has never happened before as there is an attempt to take the unfaithfulness against the monarchy as a political issue. All parties must essentially take into account the highest advantage from presenting the utmost honor to the monarchy.

6.4 With regard to the prosecution of lèse majesté cases, the prosecutor, who has an important role in using discretion whether to prosecute or not, should put emphasis on a means for ordering cases by using discretion (Opportunity Principle), which is a universal power of the prosecutor. Although there is adequate evidence for prosecution order, the prosecutor must place importance on weighing the advantages and disadvantages of the prosecution, taking into account the public interest in essence. In this case, the issue the prosecutor must consider is which way between to order prosecution and not to order prosecution is highly beneficial for protecting and presenting the honor appropriately to the monarchy. This means is used in the countries which have the monarchy such as the Netherlands.

6.5 The government should arrange for the temporary release of accused persons and defendants in lèse majesté cases since the severe accusation is not a legal reason for denying the right to temporary release of accused persons and defendants, which is the fundamental right under the law. This could be seen in the case that the court has granted the temporary release in other cases which have a higher scale of punishment than the lèse majesté case such as a charge of murder, which the court has usually granted the temporary release, which is a fundamental right.

6.6 The government should consider reviewing the prosecution of cases which expand the issue of lèse majesté law to a large extent during the political conflict such as the accusation and the propaganda on the conspiracy to “overthrow the monarchy”. In this respect, the interpretation of the law might be too broad to affect the reconciliation in the nation and adversely affect the protection of the monarchy. The further prosecution must be undertaken by considering the explicit evidence regarding specific individual behaviors to prove guilt in accordance with the rule of law.

7. TRCT requests all parties be aware that the ongoing conflict problem has been gradually aggravated to become a fractured disunity in Thai society that only one of the organizations cannot solve the problem alone. All parties involved in the conflict – the government sector, civil society sector, business sector, and mass media, as well as people – have a significant role in leading the country towards the reconciliation. The government should facilitate the arrangement for the exchange forum to enable all parties in Thai society to understand the cause of the conflict problem, which is a phenomenon in every society during a major transition. In this regard, the government should vigorously support the knowledge dissemination and the participation in exchanging opinions through various media for a mutual understanding of the society to get over the conflict. The understanding on the root cause of the problem and the pursuit for the correct way to overcome the conflict together is the creation of important knowledge asset, which could lead Thai society to the strong and sustainable democratic society.

For your kind consideration.

Yours sincerely,

Kanit Nanakorn
(Prof. Kanit Nanakorn)
Chairman Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Try to imagine that it was your child murdered in Bangkok. I would hope that you would want justice.

I would- but who killed my Child?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

I am rather surprised you are taking this rather odd stance.

You weren't before the Crackdown though, were you? There are more cadavers than you have been made privy to,

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

You were very vocal previously in decrying the Democrats and the army and the deaths that were caused as part of their decisions.

I still am. But I am also aware these regressive forces wish to mire proceedings in this looking backward thing, this tie everything up in meaningless Committee's thing (outcome inevitable).
Effective people circumvent that, and move Forward.

Really, your Thinking is a reflection of the Democrat's failure. Think about that.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

That's why justice is important.

Thats what Abhisit said.

With due respect, the engine room of an effective Nation has little in common with the Sociology department of a third grade Thai 'university'.

No doubt we will be enthralled by your debating skills, but put your seatbelt on and enjoy the ride, regardless.

After the fact, the debate withers.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

That's why justice is important.

Thats what Abhisit said.

With due respect, the engine room of an effective Nation has little in common with the Sociology department of a third grade Thai 'university'.

No doubt we will be enthralled by your debating skills, but put your seatbelt on and enjoy the ride, regardless.

After the fact, the debate withers.

What?

So now you are saying that all the murders should be let go? Forgive and forget? Just move on. What about justice for the families of those who died? You know, how things work in other countries. Other democracies. Other countries that have responsibility and accountability.

Sorry mate, but you've taken leave of your senses. You are seeking to re-frame reality. And using my words, in reference to Abhisit is just one step beyond crazy.

Btw, I've no idea of what you are talking about with the reference to sociology or Thai university. That seems totally out there once more. Are you (heavily) drinking again tonight?

Amusing that you don't reply to earlier points I raised.

You are sounding more and more like some Thaksin mouthpiece.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

That's why justice is important.

Thats what Abhisit said.

With due respect, the engine room of an effective Nation has little in common with the Sociology department of a third grade Thai 'university'.

No doubt we will be enthralled by your debating skills, but put your seatbelt on and enjoy the ride, regardless.

After the fact, the debate withers.

Debate is important. Let it commence. SD, as you are without fear, please begin

^ And just to add to my earlier point about Pheu Thai having total control of the police....it appears they will have control over much of the media too...

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ml#post1889803 (Journos decry state meddling)

So, really, if ever there was a chance to do something positive and different and break from the past, this is it.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

^ And just to add to my earlier point about Pheu Thai having total control of the police....it appears they will have control over much of the media too...

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ml#post1889803 (Journos decry state meddling)

So, really, if ever there was a chance to do something positive and different and break from the past, this is it.

As we see the media - I think you refer to English-speaking media in the UK and US who are anti old military government, like someone just in US just heard Thailand that shit fuck nuke them and then UK MI6 had to calm him down

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

So now you are saying that all the murders should be let go? Forgive and forget? Just move on.

Why are you saying this now, after the crushing electoral defeat of the Democrats?
Why weren't you saying this when there was Blood on the Streets? Hypocrite.
The people of Thailand are privy to these 'Committee's' of yours, with their 'Justice'.
Now it is time to move Forward. This sorry saga will not be tainted by childish Revenge.
The people of Thailand voted to move Forward. Argue that in your Committee.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

So now you are saying that all the murders should be let go? Forgive and forget? Just move on.

Why are you saying this now, after the crushing electoral defeat of the Democrats?
Why weren't you saying this when there was Blood on the Streets? Hypocrite.
The people of Thailand are privy to these 'Committee's' of yours, with their 'Justice'.
Now it is time to move Forward. This sorry saga will not be tainted by childish Revenge.
The people of Thailand voted to move Forward. Argue that in your Committee.

I did say it, I posted several quotes from that time in another thread proving exactly what I said at the time. I was very saddened about the murders and I have consistently called for justice ever since. I really can't be bothered to search out yet more quotes for you, to prove that you are wrong, again, for you again to forget...

It isn't my problem that your memory is so very poor that you don't recall what others write accurately.

As regards 'my' committee, I put that down to inebriation on your part. As you are sounding a little odd again. The "Truth and Reconciliation Committee' is something Yingluck has thrown her full weight behind and I hope it produces tangible results.

The people of Thailand voted for a party which had campaigned on the Democrats failure, one of which was the murders committed by the army during the Democrats tenure. You may recall Robert Amsterdam and the red shirt leaders (now most of which are Pheu Thai MP's) continually promising justice.....or have you forgotten that too.

I'm waiting. I want those who are responsible brought to trial. I want justice for those who died. The families deserve some sort of closure.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

So now you are saying that all the murders should be let go? Forgive and forget? Just move on.

Why are you saying this now, after the crushing electoral defeat of the Democrats?
Why weren't you saying this when there was Blood on the Streets? Hypocrite.
The people of Thailand are privy to these 'Committee's' of yours, with their 'Justice'.
Now it is time to move Forward. This sorry saga will not be tainted by childish Revenge.
The people of Thailand voted to move Forward. Argue that in your Committee.

I did say it, I posted several quotes from that time in another thread proving exactly what I said at the time. I was very saddened about the murders and I have consistently called for justice ever since. I really can't be bothered to search out yet more quotes for you, to prove that you are wrong, again, for you again to forget...

It isn't my problem that your memory is so very poor that you don't recall what others write accurately.

As regards 'my' committee, I put that down to inebriation on your part. As you are sounding a little odd again. The "Truth and Reconciliation Committee' is something Yingluck has thrown her full weight behind and I hope it produces tangible results.

The people of Thailand voted for a party which had campaigned on the Democrats failure, one of which was the murders committed by the army during the Democrats tenure. You may recall Robert Amsterdam and the red shirt leaders (now most of which are Pheu Thai MP's) continually promising justice.....or have you forgotten that too.

I'm waiting. I want those who are responsible brought to trial. I want justice for those who died. The families deserve some sort of closure.

Lets hear from Robert Amsterdam

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The "Truth and Reconciliation Committee' is something Yingluck has thrown her full weight behind and I hope it produces tangible results.

Sweetpie, it's a joke. They can not even require witnesses to appear before them. The Military has stonewalled them from the word Go.

Yingluck said what she had to say. No doubt various 'Committee's' are up in arms about the fact that PT politicians say what they have to say. Yawwwwwn.

^^ You may want to read this then about the "joke" committee. It seems the government are already responding to some of its recommendations....

Reds to face lesser charges

Reds to face lesser charges

The Nation September 29, 2011 1:05 am

The Justice Ministry is preparing to follow the advice of the reconciliation committee, which includes changing the "terrorism" charges against red shirts to "criminal association".

Justice Ministry spokesman Thirachai Wuthitham, who is also secretary to the minister, said the Cabinet had assigned Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit to chair the rehabilitation panel with Justice Minister Pol General Pracha Promnok as his deputy. The ministry has ordered all related agencies to be ready to follow the proposals of the Truth for Reconciliation Commission, which includes changing terrorism charges against the red shirts to "Ang Yi" or criminal association.

Thirachai said providing a Bt10-million compensation for each death caused by last year’s political turmoil would also be proposed, though how much would be granted is still unknown.

Yongyuth's deputy Yoswarit Chooklom, who is also a red-shirt leader, said he had learned that some fugitive fellow leaders planned to surrender to police next month. They include Darunee Kritboonyalai and Charan Dittapichai, who allegedly violated the emergency decree.

Simpleton.

Originally Posted by sabang

your Thinking is a reflection of the Democrat's failure. Think about that.

Originally Posted by sabang

After the fact, the debate withers.

Originally Posted by sabang

Simpleton.

Originally Posted by sabang

your Thinking is a reflection of the Democrat's failure. Think about that.

Originally Posted by sabang

After the fact, the debate withers.

So, rather than respond to anything I write, you just quote irrelevancies, effectively admitting your failure. You haven't addressed anything. You have failed in your line of argument completely.

And of course you add an ever predictable insult....

You are totally disingenuous. Utterly dishonest.

You called for justice innumerable times when the Democrats were in power. Now all of a sudden you want to forgive and forget? What on earth is that?

I want to see justice for those who died. They deserve it. Their families deserve it. Anything less is just more of the same here, a repeat of what has gone before....and that suggests a high chance of history repeating itself once more. Nothing learned. No change.

The normal folks get shit on and die. The rich and powerful get to play their games untouched.

It has got to change.

Yingluck has the mandate.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

It has got to change.
Yingluck has the mandate.

Whilst you are indeed a simpleton, I would like to oblige you. The above is true.
Now, Brutus, let us apply this to the Real world. Rigorous judicial proceedings, and arrest warrants.


Outcome??

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

It has got to change.
Yingluck has the mandate.

Whilst you are indeed a simpleton, I would like to oblige you. The above is true.
Now, Brutus, let us apply this to the Real world. Rigorous judicial proceedings, and arrest warrants.


Outcome??

But what about the red shirts campaign for justice? The marches in the streets every 10th and 19th? The announcements condemning the butcher of Bangkok? The proclamations from Robert Amsterdam? The application to the ICC? The calls for justice from the red shirt leaders? The huge rallies all over Thailand, where the government was slammed for the murders that were committed during its watch?

Are you trying to tell me it was all for nothing? All total bullshit? All done for public effect? That none of it ever had a chance to succeed? That Yingluck/Pheu Thai/Thaksin never intended on seeking justice...?

And no I am not a simpleton Sabang, everything I have written has been for a reason, which you appear to have completely failed to realise...

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

With Sabang and BG Thailand has spent too much time looking at it's past and present rather than it's future. Only hope that the Elite and Military do not see this as a sign of weakness.

Originally Posted by TRCT

2. While the conflict still exists and the Thai society begins to hope for overcoming the conflict to achieve reconciliation, TRCT would like to request all parties involved in the conflict – the government, those involved in the supervision and control of the use of state power, political parties, political groups, and many agencies – to be highly cautious in committing any act which could affect a supportive atmosphere for reconciliation. In particular, the government whose election victory partially stemmed from the campaign supporting reconciliation should be especially careful by avoiding any act which could provoke the increase of conflict. TRCT is well aware that amid the stream of ongoing conflicts, it is difficult for the government to appear impartial from the viewpoints of all parties. However, the reconciliation of people in the nation could be achieved only if the government which supervises the use of state power has strong determination, tolerance and perseverance to lead the country towards the reconciliation process in earnest.

Originally Posted by TRCT

7. TRCT requests all parties be aware that the ongoing conflict problem has been gradually aggravated to become a fractured disunity in Thai society that only one of the organizations cannot solve the problem alone. All parties involved in the conflict – the government sector, civil society sector, business sector, and mass media, as well as people – have a significant role in leading the country towards the reconciliation. The government should facilitate the arrangement for the exchange forum to enable all parties in Thai society to understand the cause of the conflict problem, which is a phenomenon in every society during a major transition. In this regard, the government should vigorously support the knowledge dissemination and the participation in exchanging opinions through various media for a mutual understanding of the society to get over the conflict. The understanding on the root cause of the problem and the pursuit for the correct way to overcome the conflict together is the creation of important knowledge asset, which could lead Thai society to the strong and sustainable democratic society.

Ditto on all counts.