Thread: China's first home-built aircraft carrier set to carry out maiden sea trial in April

Originally Posted by bsnub

US Navy has had them in continues service for over a hundred years longer than any other nation on the planet, seen combat in every war during that period on and on.

And aren't the results of their wars "convincing" enough, are they?

Originally Posted by bsnub

Not to mention that they will have absolutely zero operational experience using aircraft carriers. Those things will literally be floating targets.

You don’t need to annihilate a carrier to neutralize it. Most people think you have to totally break and sink it to remove it from a battle, but it’s not true. And that’s what worries US Navy strategists the most. (While some other countries’ strategists smirk.)

A carrier is a floating seaborne airbase. Its main purpose is to launch and service military aircraft. It’s also capable of a number of other things, including landing troops on the shore, but that’s worthless without aerial support. All the supporting vessels, destroyers, frigates and submarines are there only to protect the carrier from enemy attack. They are very good in that, you have to give them that.

The problem is that nowadays even a relatively poor country can build craploads of these things and launch them against a carrier.



Yup, that’s a drone. Cheap, simple and expendable. Build a swarm of these, let’s say, 500 units, equip them with a small explosive charge of let’s say, one kilogram of TNT, and send them to find the carrier. They can do it autonomously, all they need is a small computer with GPS capability and a camera with a good shape recognition algorithm. In other words: a smartphone. Send 500 of these against a carrier. They will automatically recognize the vulnerable parts of the ship: the antennas, the radar, the aircraft parked on the flight deck. And they all dive for a suicide attack. Mini kamikazes, if you wish.

Sure, the ship’s defenses will shoot down a lot of them, but Phalanx guns are not designed to hit tiny, swift targets which are probably too small to produce a radar blip anyway. How many can they destroy of the 500? Let’s say the defenders put up an awesome job and take down 490. That’s still 10 little bombs hitting the ship’s vital communication systems and knocking them out. But then again, the enemy can easily send not 500 but 1000 drones. One drone will cost only about 5–600 dollars. This means they can disable a Nimitz-class supercarrier for less than a million dollars. This doesn’t sound good, does it?

The supercarrier, as we know it today, will be soon as obsolete as battleships. Aircraft brought the demise of the battleship, and these tiny toys will turn the symbols of the Cold War into war history.

The US Navy is currently experimenting with drone swarms itself. The idea is to equip every ship with a swarm on its own to counter such threats. Autonomous drones can be intercepted by counter-drones. Not much is known of the results yet. You can bet that within a decade we’ll see drone swarms being used as weapons

Just ones of the replies from :- http://www.quora.com/How-can-you-des...rcraft-carrier

A quick look at the new aircraft carriers being built now.

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

A carrier is a floating seaborne airbase.

Apart of the enormous cost the fact that the airbase is "movable" makes it not necessarily indispensable for peace-loving powers not intending to "move" their bases outside boundaries of their own country.

It's somewhere to land the helicopters when one needs to vacate a countries "political masters" quickly.

Sleeping dragon no more: China about to replace US as strongest naval power and Washington is too late to stop it

21 Dec, 2019


Chinese President Xi Jinping meets with representatives of the aircraft carrier unit and the manufacturer at a naval port in Sanya, south China's Hainan Province on December 17, 2019. © Global Look Press / Li Gang

China might soon shift the world naval balance and unseat the US as the modern master of the seas. The process appears to already be under way, and there is little that Washington can do about stopping it.
Visibly shaken by what it has seen on a photo showing just one of China's military shipyards near Shanghai, the business magazine Forbes recently told its readers an alarming story about the "impressive rate" and "vast scale" of Chinese naval modernization.

The shipyard in question indeed appears to be an impressive sight to behold. There, one can see a total of nine newly constructed destroyers lined along the quay and docked in an inner shipyard basin. By contrast, the entire UK Royal Navy has a total of just six similar-class vessels, Forbes notes.

As if it was not enough, the same shipyard is also building China's newest aircraft carrier – the third in a row. The second one, called the Shandong, was commissioned by the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) earlier this week. Designed to carry 36 J-15 fighter jets, it is China's first fully domestically produced carrier.

The one under construction at the Shanghai shipyard is expected to be even bigger and better. In particular, it will have an electromagnetic catapult – just like the US Navy’s newest carrier, USS Gerald R. Ford.

More importantly, this one shipyard is but a sneak peek into China's real capabilities as there are "many yards across China, which are similarly impressive," Forbes warns its readers.

'Good reason' to worry
What might have come as a surprise for Forbes has been occupying the minds of all sorts of analysts for quite some time. The US media and think tanks alike are all united in their concerns about Beijing's growing military power.

In June, the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), a Washington-based think tank, argued that China's industrial and technological capabilities might help it "beat the Americans at their own game" and get an edge in the new arms race.

"The Soviets were never able to match, much less overcome, America's technological superiority. The same may not be true for China," warns the CNAS paper, adding that Beijing "strives to achieve technological parity, and eventually technological dominance."

Similarly, a whole range of media outlets from The Diplomat to the National Interest spared no efforts telling their readers that China's military modernization poses "a challenge" to the US and gives Washington "good reasons" to worry. Harvard Policy Review made a step further and wondered whether Beijing's strategy could put it on a "path to hegemony," eventually admitting that it mostly depends on "how far China is willing to go."

Meanwhile, the RAND Corporation – a premier US military think tank -- showed in its research that China's rapid military development program has already allowed it to drastically close the gap in power and technology, and even to put the US at a disadvantage in certain scenarios.

The think tanks and the media apparently believe it is high time Washington started worrying about losing its military superiority to the Chinese dragon, which seems to be just spreading its wings. But when it comes to naval power, it might already be too late.

'Unprecedented program Americans cannot even dream of'
Beijing has made its naval forces the cornerstone of its military modernization, analysts tell RT. China is actively pursuing the role of a global military power able to project its force to any corner of the earth, and the US may not have the sheer industrial capacity to compete.

"It is easier for China to increase its fleet numbers as it is the world's biggest shipbuilder. They have immense shipyard capacities, which the US lacks, as its commercial shipbuilding has been thrown into disarray over the past decades," says Vasily Kashin, Far East researcher at the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Political scientist and military expert Aleksandr Khramchikhin, deputy head of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis, described the Chinese navy development program as "totally unprecedented."

One cannot even count all the ships being built there. The modern Chinese program is unrivaled throughout the world and the Americans cannot even dream of such pace.

Khramchikhin believes that Beijing might be able to rival Washington in terms of the sheer fleet size in a decade or so. He particularly noted that China has been able to build frigates, corvettes and even destroyers by the dozen over the past decades.

"Ten years ago, the US had 15 aircraft carriers and China had none. In ten years, they might become even… They have more shipbuilders than the rest of the world together."

Closing the technological gap
One advantage the US would seem certain to hold on to is technological superiority. It could try to curb China's emerging naval might by limiting Beijing's access to modern technologies. That strategy is unlikely to work, the analysts believe, as China already has some cutting-edge technologies it could easily develop further. Besides, it can also approach its strategic partner, Russia.


A nuclear-powered Type 094A Jin-class ballistic missile submarine of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy is seen during a military display in the South China Sea, on April 12, 2018. © Reuters


"They make great technological advances," Kashin says. He points that the Chinese were the second nation in the world to equip their ships with integrated universal weapons systems rivaling America's Aegis – an advanced command and control system using powerful computers and radars to track and guide the vessels’ weapons.

Khramchikhin believes that Chinese naval technologies are already in many ways comparable to those of the US. "When it comes to surface ships, the Chinese already have some of the most advanced technologies."

It is true that some military technologies are difficult to master and take decades to develop. It is particularly relevant in the case of submarines, a field where China is still trailing the US. Here, however, close cooperation between Beijing and Moscow might tip the scales, the analysts believe.

Most recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin told an end-of-the-year press conference in Moscow that Russia will continue to work with China as a "strategic partner" in the field of defense technologies, even though he denied any plans on entering a formal military alliance with Beijing.

"Some joint development projects, sophisticated equipment components… these can all come from Russia," Kashin believes.

Washington might slow Beijing down a bit at some point, but the way things look now, the US doesn't seem to have any credible means to prevent China from becoming the world's next naval superpower in a decade or two.

https://www.rt.com/news/476527-chine...-us-strongest/

Originally Posted by Klondyke

China about to replace US as strongest naval power

What a moron.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Sleeping dragon no more: China about to replace US as strongest naval power and Washington is too late to stop it

I worked offshore Bohai in about 2010, crew changes were a joke, everything used to go wrong, out last resort was hiring a Chinese navy gunship for the voyage, we used to pay the Captain 5,000 RMB, the boat was not impressive, if the seas were above 2m they used to turn around and go back to base, not convinced they have moved along much since then!

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Klondyke
China about to replace US as strongest naval power
What a moron.

I did not write the article, nor pulled any conclusions.
Any comments to the matter written about?

Originally Posted by Airportwo

I worked offshore Bohai in about 2010, crew changes were a joke, everything used to go wrong,

It reminds me that I too had experienced seeing a crew of a country, not very impressed by their actions.

However, I doubt that such an "experience" would give me a right to pull conclusions about the ability of the whole country - especially of country with population of 1.5 bil.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Khramchikhin believes that Beijing might be able to rival Washington in terms of the sheer fleet size in a decade or so.

How about they already have a greater fleet size sir!
US has larger and tech superior ships but China is catching up fast.
Suspect by 2030 they will be dominant but not yet.

Originally Posted by Norton

How about they already have a greater fleet size sir!
US has larger and tech superior ships but China is catching up fast.
Suspect by 2030 they will be dominant but not yet.

Considering the fact that US have built their war machinery over centuries? Unlike the Chinese, where did they stand, say 40 - 50 years ago?

In a view of their enormous growth when seeing their towns and all the infrastructure in the country?

And lest not forget: the enormous discipline of the population...

Forbes also a "moron"?

The Chinese Navy Is Building An Incredible Number Of Warships

While the U.S. Navy launches a handful of AEGIS destroyers each year, the single image below of a Shanghai shipyard shows nine newly constructed Chinese warships. China’s Navy, known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy), is modernizing at an impressive rate. And on a vast scale. A key ingredient is the construction of a fleet of large destroyers, amphibious warships and aircraft carriers. The below photo, snapped from an airplane window on December 13, and shared on social media, captures the vast scale of this construction.


Chinese shipyard with warships under construction, Shanghai.
Image Analysis of photo of Chinese shipyard showing multiple warships at various stages of ... [+]H I SUTTON, WITH PERMISSION FROM @LOONGNAVAL

Nearest the camera, a line of four newly constructed destroyers catch the sunlight. Two are Type-052D air-defense destroyers, generally equivalent to the U.S. Navy’s Arleigh Burke Class AEGIS destroyers. These displace 7,500 tons and can carry 64 large missiles including long range surface to air missiles (SAMs) and cruise missiles. The other two are larger Type-055 Class ships. These are also described as air-defense destroyers but are verging on cruisers in terms of size and fit. These are about twice the displacement and carry over 100 large missiles.

Behind them is the shipyard with its mass of construction halls and cranes. In the basin where the newest ships are docked after launch are another four destroyers. Again there are both Type-052D and Type-055 ships. Together with another Type-055 under construction on the left of the image, this brings the total number of large destroyers visible to 9. To put that into context, the Royal Navy’s entire destroyer fleet is just 6 ships. And this yard is just part of a much bigger construction program.

There are also some hovercraft which will be carried aboard the PLAN’s expanding fleet of amphibious warships. They will be used for transporting tanks and supplies from ship to shore. These are generally similar to the U.S. Navy’s Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC).

At the side of the basin, in a dry dock, is a massive Yuan Wang Class satellite and/or missile tracking ship. These are the sort of ships which look like an ocean liner but with a series of gigantic satellite dishes pointing skyward. When completed this could be used to support missile tests.

But the most impressive vessel is hidden in the background haze, barely discernible to the untrained eye. Beneath several massive gantry cranes in a purpose-built construction area is China’s next-generation aircraft carrier. China already has two carriers in service but this new carrier is expected to be significantly different. Known as the Type-003, it is believed to have electromagnetic catapults like the latest U.S. Navy Ford Class carrier. It is not expected to be launched for some time.

Other developments are not visible in the photo. It is the same shipyard where China’s mysterious sailless submarine has been constructed. Although that submarine is not clearly apparent in the photograph, it may be present in the basin.

This image paints an interesting picture of Chinese naval modernization. Yet the biggest takeaway is that this shipyard is not alone. There are many yards across China which are similarly impressive. The Chinese Navy of today, and the future, is changed beyond all recognition from the Chinese Navy of the past. The world naval balance is shifting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutto.../#21b2c08169ac

like the Americans have proved over and over again, even with the big toys, you can lose wars

in this day and age, those big toys means nothing if you only have retards to operate them, and the average US soldier or Chinese is not really smart enough to operate those toys properly, they will fuckup 80% of the time

thank good for that and world peace, and their leaders know this

Originally Posted by Klondyke

And lest not forget: the enormous discipline of the population...

Who allegedly are great container ship builders and operators. Even the unarmed kind.



Although those vertical missile launch tubes could be hidden more.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

is also a "moron"


Chinese shipyard with warships under construction

I'm very impressed with the PLAN.
It would take a few shots to finish it off, but I reckon I could do it in a day.