Thread: US destroyer collides with merchant vessel near Japan

Originally Posted by Looper

Whenever either of the other aspiring superpowers, Russia or China, gets involved in international affairs you can be sure there is only one agenda and it is the strategic advancement of Russia or China.

The USA does it for its own benefits. They are no different from Russia or China.

I am sure there is some overlap and blurring between the respective best interests of the world, best interests of western democracy and best interests of the US when it comes to US foreign policy and action.

But with China and Russia there is only ever one interest and that is Russia or China.

Policeman of the world? Maybe a Thai style policeman : taking action when there's money to be made or creating a case to have an occasion to grab the suspect's assets...?

Originally Posted by Neverna

The USA does it for its own benefits. They are no different from Russia or China.

Some for their 0.001%, others for their own and other countries citizens.

Originally Posted by Looper

But with China and Russia there is only ever one interest and that is Russia or China.

"MAGA"

Anybody familiar with US Nacy ships (like the destroyer) here?

Would such a ship normally have a quality VDR (voyage data recorder) running?
Or would such be considered a potential security breach and hence, skipped?

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by melvin

Would such a ship normally have a quality VDR (voyage data recorder) running?

No but all equivalent data and more is recorded in Command and Control system. Don't know if it will be shared with Japanese transport safety board.

"TOKYO — Japanese authorities said Thursday they have obtained a data recording device from a container ship to help determine why it collided with a U.S. destroyer, killing seven American sailors.

Japanese transport safety officials said they obtained the voyage data recorder, similar to an airplane's "black box," from the Philippine-flagged ACX Crystal, which is currently docked in Yokohama near Tokyo. "

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/i...rald-collision

Thanks.

C and C storage is VDR good enough me thinks.
Although the article you link to doesn't talk about CandC and such data explicitly
(as far as I noticed), but I assume you're right.

Originally Posted by Farang Ky Ay

Policeman of the world? Maybe a Thai style policeman : taking action when there's money to be made or creating a case to have an occasion to grab the suspect's assets...?

+200.. i remember a time when people would disagree.

Originally Posted by melvin

Although the article you link to doesn't talk about CandC and such data explicitly

Correct. Related in that Japanese transport safety officials have VDR from the Crystal. Expect the US Navy will release recorded data to the JTS. Will include all recorded sensor, helm, lee helm and voice.

It appears that China has just purchased another 100+ container ships.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...-overseas-deal

When I say China I mean, COSCO, not the Chinese Navy.

Allegedly the deal means they will have 400+ ships, 70,000+ containers a week being delivered every week to north american ports.

"For a price of $6.3 billion (HK$78.67 a share) - equivalent to an eye-popping premium of 112% of the stock’s one-year trading average - Cosco Shipping's purchase of Hong Kong-based Orient Overseas makes the Chinese state-owned firm the world’s third-largest bulk shipping company, and the largest servicing the lucrative Asia to North America route, beating out Copenhagen-based A.P. Moller-Maersk and France’s CMA CGM. The deal also makes Cosco the biggest container shipping company servicing the Pacific."

It's a good job ameristani warships police to oceans to enable safe passage on the high seas for all.

Originally Posted by Norton

"TOKYO — Japanese authorities said Thursday they have obtained a data recording device from a container ship to help determine why it collided with a U.S. destroyer, killing seven American sailors.

Not a whiff of ameristani fault there then. One can understand the exceptional attitude given the alleged blame on others as opposed to themselves, prior to an investigation and declaration of fault.

Originally Posted by OhOh

It appears that China has just purchased another 100+ container ships.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...-overseas-deal

When I say China I mean, COSCO, not the Chinese Navy.

Allegedly the deal means they will have 400+ ships, 70,000+ containers a week being delivered every week to north american ports.

"For a price of $6.3 billion (HK$78.67 a share) - equivalent to an eye-popping premium of 112% of the stock’s one-year trading average - Cosco Shipping's purchase of Hong Kong-based Orient Overseas makes the Chinese state-owned firm the world’s third-largest bulk shipping company, and the largest servicing the lucrative Asia to North America route, beating out Copenhagen-based A.P. Moller-Maersk and France’s CMA CGM. The deal also makes Cosco the biggest container shipping company servicing the Pacific."

It's a good job ameristani warships police to oceans to enable safe passage on the high seas for all.

Originally Posted by Norton

"TOKYO — Japanese authorities said Thursday they have obtained a data recording device from a container ship to help determine why it collided with a U.S. destroyer, killing seven American sailors.

Not a whiff of ameristani fault there then. One can understand the exceptional attitude given the alleged blame on others as opposed to themselves, prior to an investigation and declaration of fault.

hopefully only a few of those Chinese containerships will chase US destroyers,
but u never know

I find the sentence you quote quite neutral, not biased, the Jap authorities don't have similar data for the destroyer, they focus on what they have.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by melvin

Although the article you link to doesn't talk about CandC and such data explicitly

Correct. Related in that Japanese transport safety officials have VDR from the Crystal. Expect the US Navy will release recorded data to the JTS. Will include all recorded sensor, helm, lee helm and voice.

thanks, good

'cause without detailed voyage data for the destroyer it might be more than tricky to sort the scenarios leading up to the crash

it looks like the destroyer was "taken" by total surprise, several in the US Navy have publicly said that they just cannot understand why the destroyer did not take any evasive action,
may look like that (for some reason) the destroyer didn't have a clue they were
about to be ploughed down

the Asian master and crew on the merchant man, being concerned about face, would tend to portray scenarios that do not put them in too bad light, me thinks

but with voyage data from both ships it should be possible to re-construct the scenarios

Originally Posted by melvin

I find the sentence you quote quite neutral, not biased, the Jap authorities don't have similar data for the destroyer, they focus on what they have.

Are you suggesting Japan does not store it's own radar recordings/images of a very busy waterway a few km off their coast? It is irrelevant whether the US Navy has offered it's own GPS/radar recordings.

Or are we traveling down the "Ukraine plane disaster" rabbit hole where the data mysteriously disappears or becomes a national security, hence, secret which it is unable to publish publically?

To suggest that "why it collided with a U.S. destroyer, killing seven American sailors", is implying the CS hit the destroyer, killing seven sailors and was at fault.

That fact has yet to be determined and is typical of the ameristani fake news being used to pre-empt/manipulate opinion.

^When the bow of ship A hits the starboard side of ship B it is fair to say that A collided with B.

Originally Posted by OhOh

is implying the CS hit the destroyer,

Yes it did hit the destroyer.

Originally Posted by OhOh

and was at fault.

No it does not imply fault. If A is the stand on vessel and B is the give way vessel then saying A collided with B does not imply any fault lies with A.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by melvin

I find the sentence you quote quite neutral, not biased, the Jap authorities don't have similar data for the destroyer, they focus on what they have.

Are you suggesting Japan does not store it's own radar recordings/images of a very busy waterway a few km off their coast? It is irrelevant whether the US Navy has offered it's own GPS/radar recordings.

Or are we traveling down the "Ukraine plane disaster" rabbit hole where the data mysteriously disappears or becomes a national security, hence, secret which it is unable to publish publically?

To suggest that "why it collided with a U.S. destroyer, killing seven American sailors", is implying the CS hit the destroyer, killing seven sailors and was at fault.

That fact has yet to be determined and is typical of the ameristani fake news being used to pre-empt/manipulate opinion.

am not suggesting anything,
have read a lot about this, have not seen anything re Japanese radar coverage of the whlole area or about storage of such data

maybe Jap athorities have the whole area covered by radar, don't know
if they have maybe they store the data for some time, don't know

would be hard to accurately identify the destroyer on the radar screens though, unless it had its AIS on

but:
the Jap authorities are not investigating the US Navy ship, that is for
the US Navy to do (and maybe US Coast Guard?)

https://news.usni.org/2017/07/27/rep...-terror-attack



"The cost to repair stricken destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) will easily be more than the $250 million the U.S. Navy paid to repair USS Cole (DDG-67) after it suffered a 2000 terrorist attack in Yemen, USNI News has learned. While it’s too early to craft a complete repair estimate, several naval analysts told USNI News a $500-million bill to fix to the warship was not out of the question.

According to three sources familiar with the early damage estimates, repairs to the extensive damage to the ship’s superstructure, spaces below the waterline, and pricey electronics and radar systems will cost more than repairs to the damage suffered by Cole after an explosives-laden suicide boat attack hit the ship pierside, blasting a hole in the waterline and killing 17 sailors.

The June 17 collision of Fitzgerald and the Philippine-flagged merchant ship ACX Crystal off the coast of Japan resulted in the death of seven sailors, extensive damage to the hull, and damage to several high-end electronic systems, such as the integrated radio room on the ship and the starboard forward array of the ship’s A/N-SPY1D(v) air search radar.

The port side of the flared bow of Crystal caved in the superstructure of the ship, crushing the radar face and twisting the metal of the superstructure.

A Navy official told USNI News the assessment on Fitzgerald is ongoing and that an official estimate is still being developed by the service. The service is also debating on how to get the DDG back to the U.S. for repairs, though a heavy-lift ship transporting Fitzgerald to the West Coast is the current favorite option in Navy leadership circles.

Cole was taken back to the U.S. by MV Blue Marlin, a heavy-lift transport for oil rigs, and repaired over a period of two years at what is now the Ingalls Shipbuilding yard in Pascagoula, Miss.

“The repair process, which cost about $250 million, included removing and replacing more than 550 tons of steel, replacing two 27-ton main engines and modules, installing a new stern flap, which will increase the ship’s speed and fuel efficiency, replacing three gas turbines generators, and installing new galley equipment,” the service said at the time.

The biggest difference in cost will be the replacement and upgrading the electronics of Fitzgerald.

“The Cole was largely engineering, and it’s electronics that gets you,” retired Navy captain and naval analyst Chris Carlson told USNI News on Wednesday.

“An engine looks expensive, but it’s a pretty basic repair compared to electronic systems.”
Additionally, the spaces that were flooded below the waterline would also need to be gutted, Carlson said.

Bryan Clark, naval analyst with Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said, based on photos of the damage published by the Navy, the costs to repair the ship would easily top the $250 million of the Cole repairs, and could even double that figure.

Fitzgerald, commissioned in 1995, is one of the earliest Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and was due for a $170-million basic hull, mechanical and engineering upgrade in Fiscal Year 2019, according to modernization information obtained by USNI News. The upgrade is meant to get an additional 10 to 15 years of life out of the hull.

However, the Navy will probably elect to upgrade the damaged electronics to the new Baseline 9 standard that allows warships to both target ballistic missiles and fight traditional air warfare threats. That overhaul costs about $270 million.

“That makes the repair-plus-overhaul several times more expensive than originally planned. The problem will still be, what work won’t get done on other ships to pay for the repair?” Clark said.
“Does that mean two BMD modernizations don’t get done? If that’s the trade then it’s not worth it.”

While there are several unknowns around the repair schedule, the Navy has said it was committed to repairing the ship.

“The ship is salvageable,” U.S. 7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin told reporters on June 17, Stars and Stripes reported.

“It will require some significant repairs. You will see the USS Fitzgerald back as one of our warships here. [Repair time] will take months, hopefully under a year.”
While the repair plan is ongoing, several investigations continue into the cause of the June 17 collision off the coast of Japan".

Sadly that USD 300 to 500 Million "fix-it" (and possible electronics upgrade) won't go into VA hospitals and care.
(That equates to 1/3 to 1/2 BILLION USD.)

In fiscal year 2015 US military spending was USD 598 BILLION.

Lets see ...Bill and Melinda Gates (MSFT) net worth approx USD 90 BILLION.

♧ That reminds me I better get the $27,000 in place for 90 days to make my visa extension based on retirement.

^We're trillion$ in debt, what's a few more million$ matter...

However, the Navy will probably elect to upgrade the damaged electronics to the new Baseline 9 standard that allows warships to both target ballistic missiles and fight traditional air warfare threats. That overhaul costs about $270 million.

They should also install something that allows them to see other ships approaching on a collision course.

Originally Posted by SKkin

^We're trillion$ in debt, what's a few more million$ matter...

2.5 seconds to "print" the piddling amount. Nobody has audited the pentagon for years.

Originally Posted by birding

They should also install something that allows them to see other ships approaching on a collision course.

Oh they saw them alright they even sent them a message suggesting the warship changed it's course. But you know the ameristani navy, no you change course. etc.

Cue the Spanish lighthouse video, 3, 2, 1.