Thread: Abhisit Vejjajiva has been invited to deliver a speech on good governance

Oh that's right you are not Daffy, the constant claiming that you are by TUS had me confused.

You can PM me then.

PM sent!

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Wanna have a discussion about this, preferably without the clowns? I have some personal views, theories, as well as questions, and you seem to be easonable, informed and able to discuss rationally.

Precisely the rationale for ignoring the majority in a vote
In this case it's clear are analogous with the yellow and the red shits.

Does either side have any legitimacy? Isn't the whole debate is a little ridiculous? Like debating who was the best tyrant between Hitler and Stalin.

Surely you can't have a functioning democracy in an Asian country with massive inequalities, illiteracy, a deeply entrenched social hierarchy and overt corruption, so all the talk of "the people voted for x, y, and z" is for the birds...

Similarly, you can't claim to have defended freedom, when you have overridden the unconsidered will of the illiterate masses; and expressed a desire for democracy to be abandoned.

It's a fair question though, do Asian countries need democracy? Can they really have democracy? Is democracy actually compatible with Asian (Confucian) attitudes?
Are we Euro-morphising Asia? (i.e. as you might anthropomorphise an animal).
Are one side's supporters basically imagining that a western form of democracy can be superposed on a population who are not conditioned for it?

Surely, in any country where there are massive inequalities and lack of consistency in rule of law, any democratic process is likely to keep delivering those with the resources to fund a campaign into power.

Some people seem to think that somehow an election manifesto in Asia is somehow more valid and credible than one in Europe, and that any kind of voting process is ok, as long as a vote happens, the result is legit. I find it hard to believe they would accept an Asian style election in their own country - more to the point, they wouldn't be afraid of protesting about it.

Perhaps some kind of "Deliberative Democracy" would work better in most Asian states? You've got to have a way to restrain Chinese moguls on both sides from dictating the public discourse; and that needs strong rule of law and education to allow little people to criticise big people publically - and that seems a long way off in most places outside the west.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Perhaps some kind of "Deliberative Democracy" would work better in most Asian states? You've got to have a way to restrain Chinese moguls on both sides from dictating the public discourse; and that needs strong rule of law and education to allow little people to criticise big people publically - and that seems a long way off in most places outside the west.

Valid point - that the issue is not the process, or the political system, but rather the culture and a few individuals clinging on to power.

For what it's worth, unlike some of the noise-makers in these threads, I don' believe that some supreme grand poobah is responsible for all the power grabs (especially if said grand poobah has himself publicly poo-poo'd any laws allegedly "protecting" him).

The issue is that a select number of non-poobah individuals, ie the Chinese Moguls you mentioned, use the Poobah Umbrella to expand and cement their own power.

Ironically, I feel that the changes you advocate (which I agree with) could only be initiated and forced through from a Poobah-high position, which currently is not likely to happen for a variety of reasons, sadly.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Now in answer to Bobcock yes that's pretty close to my guess too. But I think abhisit was being pushed along by others. The question remains who ?

Go ahead. Tell us. Clearly you have a person on your mind.

Hazz summed it up in post 294. While you're trying to create rival groups the fact is most of us are of a similar view though differ on the politics of it and the beneficiaries. But go - play your game.

You do live in your own little fantasy world, don't you?

^




Err you were saying, you PAD yellow Nutjob?

You can't argue with that

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Now in answer to Bobcock yes that's pretty close to my guess too. But I think abhisit was being pushed along by others. The question remains who ?

Go ahead. Tell us. Clearly you have a person on your mind.

Hazz summed it up in post 294. While you're trying to create rival groups the fact is most of us are of a similar view though differ on the politics of it and the beneficiaries. But go - play your game.

You do live in your own little fantasy world, don't you?

After a while, you would find yourself in this fantasy world, with all the goblins and heavenly pr_m puppets in yellow colour. Now about sleep, do you often find you feel you are distanced from reality? No don't get me wrong. And anyways SD is the psych here, so you will get a clean bill of health. Possibly.

^
You do continue to be consistently wrong on all counts.