Thread: Introducing elephants into N.Australia 'would be a 10-tonne cane toad'

Originally Posted by Mr Orange

It's hypocritical to warn of the destructive impact of introducing new species when the people making the argument are descendents of the original invasion of destructive species; sheep shagging Brits.

This piece of history I need some edukation on. Were the Brits sheep shaggers before they got to the Great Pancake Desert Island or did they become that way after. Or wuz it the Welsh.

Originally Posted by FlyFree

Or wuz it the Welsh.

I think the Welsh led the way there.

Originally Posted by thegent

Sounds a great idea but why limit it there? Australia is the perfect place to replicate the African and Indian habitats currently under threat from development and releasing an assortment of species such as the elephant, lion, tiger, rhino and hippo into it would ensure their survival and protection. Antelope, gazelle and widebeeste would have to be imported as well lest the predators get hungry and focus their carnivorous attentions on whichever passing Antipodean might take their fancy.

Honestly can't see a downside to this. Good for tourism and bloodsports too. I expect the bongs would think it a positive boon and could be prevailed upon to do a spot of ivory poaching for authenticity's sake and make the park rangers life a little more exciting.

The possibilities are endless.

Elephants are one of the most destructive creatures on earth (second only to man) when it comes to a sustainable habitat. They destroy trees and muddy water holes until they are unfit for any other specie. They also don't make very good neighbors when it comes to croplands.

Hunting them for profit would be the only viable way to sustain a herd in any semi-civilized country. Even then, they would have to be kept in fenced enclosures.

RickThai

Sabang et al, when did Abo become an acceptable noun for Aboriginal people?

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

when did Abo become an acceptable noun for Aboriginal people?

dunno about anyone else, but as long as my arse has pointed south its worked..

Originally Posted by nedwalk

dunno about anyone else, but as long as my arse has pointed south its worked..

yeah, I think you missed the 1980's then.

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Sabang et al, when did Abo become an acceptable noun for Aboriginal people?

It's a funny one Willy but I am not sure that it is a derogatory term. It is just an abbreviation of the recognised term used to refer to them. Being called an Aussie is not considered derogatory. It became famously negative in association with the 2nd verse to Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport but that was because it was referring to cutting them loose (i.e. Abos are slaves or livestock) but I don't think the terms itself is an insult.

Originally Posted by Looper

It's a funny one Willy but I am not sure that it is a derogatory term. It is just an abbreviation of the recognised term used to refer to them.

‘Abo’ is not just an abbreviation of ‘Aboriginal’

I don’t think anyone is that shocked to discover former Carlton president John Elliott is a bigot and no doubt Can of Worms let his comment air because of the publicity, but sadly it seems the sentiment behind his recent racial slur is echoed by a cross-section of Australians.
Some comments on the story included:
“Aussie is OK as an abbreviation, but Abo isn’t? I never knew that Abo was offensive?”, and “Why can’t we use the word ‘abo’ it is just an abbreviation.”
Also:
“Good on you John for saying in plain words, what a lot of us think”
“Abo is an abreviation for Aboriginal just like Aussie is for Australian! I don’t know what the big deal is?”
“Australian = Aussie. Refridgerator = Fridge. Football = footy. Utility = ute. William = will. Competition = comp. Fluorescent = fluoro. Tradesman = tradie. Aborigine = abo Nothing more than typical aussies abbreviating everything as they always do !!”
Suggesting it is simply an abbreviation decontextualises the term.
Why can’t you use the word as an abbreviation?
It is the Australian version of America’s “N” word and it has been used historically and routinely to denigrate and demean Indigenous Australians.
The specific context within which Elliott used the word was negative. He suggested that it was “sheer bloody nonsense” that we recognise traditional owners. He wasn’t using it as a term of endearment and he certainly wasn’t using it as a simple abbreviation. His sense of superiority was palpable.
Many of us grew up hearing our parents’ generation use the term. We stopped using it for good reason and it certainly wasn’t because we decided abbreviations were lazy and no longer appropriate.
We recognised that it was being used pejoratively and that that was unacceptable. We recognised that the “A” word along with many other colourful words being used, expressed racial hatred.
There is a huge difference between racism and prejudice. It is not an insult to call an Australian an Aussie and while you can be prejudiced towards Australians it is not the same thing as being racist.
Terms like Kiwi, Yank and Aussie are innocuous because they refer to powerful, white, dominant cultures.
Language becomes offensive when it seeks to oppress. The term ‘girl’ is regularly used to describe someone that is weak, pathetic or lame. It is meant as an insult. Used pejoratively it seeks to reinforce the inferiority of girls. Racial slurs are no different.
Often minorities will appropriate derogatory terms to take the power out of them. If Indigenous Australians want to appropriate the “A” word, as African Americans have done with the “N” word, it doesn’t give the rest of us the right to use them, pejoratively or otherwise.
It is not political correctness gone mad to suggest that all members of society should speak to each other and about each other respectfully. Claiming it as just PC is just an excuse to justify perpetuating bigotry.
Elliott apologised for using the term with the suggestion that its use was no longer appropriate but it remains unclear exactly what he was most sorry about; to have said it or that he can no longer use it.

• First people: More Punch posts on indigenous issues

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Language becomes offensive when it seeks to oppress

Yes, I accept that point. And historically (a long time ago) it can be said that Aboriginals have been oppressed. They were also referred to as Abos during that time. But I am not sure that the use of the term itself can be identified an an attempt to oppress (then or now).

I will accept that even today it is often perceived as a term of offence but I am not sure that this is valid. I also think that language is cultural heritage and our right to use terms should be defended against political correctness.

Calling a catholic a Fenian is perceived as an insult by most people but Fenian is term derived from Finn McCool and was a term used proudly by the Fenian Brotherhood themselves for a long time.

The Nigger parallel does not totally work since Abo (as John Elliot says) is in fact just an abbreviation of a recognised term whereas Nigger is really a total reworking of Negro and a totally separate word now.

Aussies famously abbreviate everything so to specifically avoid this abbreviation in particular seems stilted and unnatural.

Originally Posted by Looper

...I will accept that even today it is often perceived as a term of offence but I am not sure that this is valid. I also think that language is cultural heritage and our right to use terms should be defended against political correctness.

...

Don’t you think that to claim “language is cultural heritage and our right to use terms should be defended against political correctness” is a bit ironic?
TH

Originally Posted by FlyFree

Any colloquial or shortened term, except that applied to white men, is considered derogatory.

.

Nonsense.

Indon
Cambo
Afghan

etc etc etc etc

Iti (as in eyeteye)
Saffer

etc etc etc etc

Brit ( don't forget our Paki, Bangla brethren ).

Bong

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Sabang et al, when did Abo become an acceptable noun for Aboriginal people?

About the time PC lefties began telling us it was unnaceptable.

I'm a bluddy ten pound pom, some of me best mates are yanks and aussies, including a few blacks, and I used to be married to a chink (they have much worse names for us). If you don't have a nickname in Australia, you don't have a name. Yours is wowser .

Originally Posted by WiserWizard

Indon

Apparently derogatory.

Indo is the preferred term.

Foreign Prophecies: Why do we find the term “INDON” insulting?

Tell the thin-skinned Indon embassy to sod off

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Originally Posted by \"WiserWizard\"

Indon

Apparently derogatory.

Indo is the preferred term.

And here is where the problem starts. I don\'t find it derogatory at all, not one bit.

Possibly people who use the term Abo feel exactly the same way and are incredulous as to why some find it offensive.

I read your linked article, thank you, and found it quite amusing. An excerpt:

The word “Indon” is very humiliating and very embarrassing. We are going to send a note of protest to the ‘Berita Harian’ and question their motives for using the word. We demand the newspaper avoid using the word in future articles and the article writer must be sanctioned.
Indonesian embassy spokesman Suryana

Attempted censorship of the press. Wonderful

Originally Posted by WiserWizard

And here is where the problem starts. I don\'t find it derogatory at all, not one bit. Possibly people who use the term Abo feel exactly the same way and are incredulous as to why some find it offensive.

Unless you are Aboriginal, it is not about you.

An American redneck may find it incredulous as to why some find iNigger offensive.

Lesser of two evils. Coon or abo? your choice

What about boong, or boonga?

Well that's an improvement on bong.I always thought they were for smoking.

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Originally Posted by \"WiserWizard\"

And here is where the problem starts. I don\\\'t find it derogatory at all, not one bit. Possibly people who use the term Abo feel exactly the same way and are incredulous as to why some find it offensive.

Unless you are Aboriginal, it is not about you.

An American redneck may find it incredulous as to why some find iNigger offensive.

Of course you have a point. It isn\'t about the people who are not being addressed, rather those who are.

As I said, I find the term Abo offensive but not the term Indon, though both groups find their moniker offensive.
This is different from nigger, however, as it isn\'t an abbreviation

Back to the original story. The environentalist wasn't serious when he suggested introducing elephants. He simple wanted to highlight the issue of the african grass, and get his story on to front page news. He succeeded.