DSI to crack down on illegal foreign-run businesses

**StrontiumDog** · 01-01-2012, 02:28 AM

DSI to crack down on illegal foreign-run businesses - The Nation

DSI to crack down on illegal foreign-run businesses

The Nation on Sunday January 1, 2012 1:00 am

Department of Special Investigation (DSI) chief Tharit Pengdit said yesterday his office would crack down on foreigners using Thais as nominees to buy land and run businesses from which they are legally excluded, while his deputy Narat Sawettanan said 536 websites had been shut down since December 13 for allegedly having lese majeste content.

Tharit said many foreigners were using Thai nationals as nominees to run businesses prohibited for non-Thais under the Foreign Business Act 1999. The businesses include logging, newspapers and property development. He said the DSI was cracking down on foreign gangsters encroaching on forestland and running property projects as well as extorting others in Koh Samui, Pattaya City and other tourists cities, while human traffickers had brought Chinese prostitutes into Thailand. Claiming foreign gangsters aimed to launder money in Thailand-based businesses before transferring it offshore, Tharit said the DSI would be more proactive in going after them before Thailand entered the Asean Economic Community in 2015. He urged members of the public to alert the DSI to any suspicious activities.

**nigelandjan** · 01-01-2012, 02:47 AM

Someones gonna be busy

**ENT** · 01-01-2012, 05:33 AM

All them foreigners doing bad things in Thailand, the gov. gotta jump on them.

Thai can do no wrong.

Who the hell facilitates these scams if it is not the Thai?

Bunch of crooks.

**KAPPA** · 01-01-2012, 07:37 AM

An entire nation comprised of monkeys, GAWD how I hate them. Can't wait for the next calamity, couldn't happen to a more deserving people.

FarangRed · 01-01-2012, 08:08 AM

What about Thai gangsters, I dont know of any foreigners into logging.

The construction industry would just grind to a halt.

**Chairman Mao** · 01-01-2012, 08:54 AM

Never forget that they despise you and hate having you here.

If they could they'd tow us out to sea to die en masses like the Rohingyas.

**Chairman Mao** · 01-01-2012, 08:59 AM

The first batch of foreigners who attempted to open a business or buy a property through their Thai wives as it is illegal for them to do are towed out to sea without food, water nor engines. Foreign Minister and PM Taksin's brother Luang Pingpongthai said it is expected that they will drift off to India or somewhere.

**FailSafe** · 01-01-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

foreigners who attempted to open a business or buy a property through their Thai wives

Just to clear up a misconception- the article is referring to foreigners who set up companies using Thai nominees who sign over their shares, essentially giving the foreigner control of the company and the ability to make decisions on its behalf- it has nothing to do with with someone giving their money to a Thai citizen (wife or whomever) to make a land purchase or set up a business under that citizen's name.

**jamescollister** · 01-01-2012, 11:31 AM

Come on if you have not broken or bent the law you have nothing to worry about. Think the illegal logging and farming is mostly a Chinese thing. Live by their rules in their country and all will be OK Jim

FarangRed · 01-01-2012, 11:34 AM

What do they intend to do with all these illegal farang? interesting to see

**KAPPA** · 01-01-2012, 11:40 AM

It's also illegal for spouses to use foreign funds to procure property. Technically . Yes, another ignored law, until it's convenient to enforce the law, get some fines and confiscate lands.

Monkey- Ville

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

foreigners who attempted to open a business or buy a property through their Thai wives

Just to clear up a misconception- the article is referring to foreigners who set up companies using Thai nominees who sign over their shares, essentially giving the foreigner control of the company and the ability to make decisions on its behalf- it has nothing to do with with someone giving their money to a Thai citizen (wife or whomever) to make a land purchase or set up a business under that citizen's name.

**somtamslap** · 01-01-2012, 12:06 PM

There should be a massive sign as you walk through arrivals at swammpy.

IF YOU AREN'T HERE TO SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY ON A FORTNIGHT HOLIDAY, THEN TURN AROUND AND FUCK OFF!

**jamescollister** · 01-01-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by somtamslap

There should be a massive sign as you walk through arrivals at swammpy.

IF YOU AREN'T HERE TO SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY ON A FORTNIGHT HOLIDAY, THEN TURN AROUND AND FUCK OFF!

Do you really think that it would stop all those farangs who don't speak a word of Thai yet believe they are so smart that they can play the system and win. Jim

**sabang** · 01-01-2012, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

his office would crack down on foreigners using Thais as nominees

If we are talking 'arms length' nominees- such as shelf companies set up by solicitors- fair enough.

But if the definition of 'nominee's' includes your legal spouse, what bullshit. You have the money, your wife is Thai, and you reside in Thailand. So what do you do if you wish to carry on business here? Logically speaking, put it in your wifes name- she is more than just an arms length nominee, but a real shareholder because of her legal partnership via the marriage contract, plus of course is a Thai citizen. That form of wealth transfer is highly beneficial for Thailand.

After a career of dealing with legal machinations in many developing countries for the purposes of investment, I just keep it simple here. Everything here is in my wifes name- no shelf companies, no written agreements, nothing. My offshore assets however stay there, under my sole name. Such 'legal' protection as I may have (dubious) is contained in the fact we are legally married, ie covered by divorce law/ joint property. So in domestic Thai terms, I am a 'keenok farang' married to a middling affluent spouse

. I would just love to develop one of those combined petrol station/ 711/ snack food & small vendor type places in a particular part of Ubon, and I'm confident it would be a winner. But I won't, because of the ridiculously opaque rules here- I have to keep my 'personal' portfolio passively invested offshore, instead- it's my insurance policy. Hardly a winner from a Thai perspective, unless your version of a 'Thai perspective' is that of a wealthy, monopolistic sinoThai oligarch.

Of course many other people considerably more financially significant than I are in the same boat. If Thailand were to get it's act together and make sensible rules for small to medium sized foreign investors, with the intent of being transparent, enforceable and logical, a lot more latent investment moneys would come Thailand's way. Otherwise, the only real legally mandated way to invest is via the stock exchange or an overpriced 'foreign name' condo.

**Loy Toy** · 01-01-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by KAPPA

It's also illegal for spouses to use foreign funds to procure property.

If requested that spouse has to sign a disclaimer letter and everything is completely legal.

**jamescollister** · 01-01-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

his office would crack down on foreigners using Thais as nominees

If we are talking 'arms length' nominees- such as shelf companies set up by solicitors- fair enough.

But if the definition of 'nominee's' includes your legal spouse, what bullshit. You have the money, your wife is Thai, and you reside in Thailand. So what do you do if you wish to carry on business here? Logically speaking, use your wifes name- she is more than just an arms length nominee, but is a real shareholder too because of her legal partnership via the marriage contract, plus of course is a Thai citizen. That form of wealth transfer is highly beneficial for Thailand.

It has nothing to do with legitimate businesses with tax paying share holders. It is about dodgy brothers solicitors creating fronts where the share holders pay no tax and have no say. As the tax and company registration becomes more and more computerized, the questions will be asked about certain alleged businesses, like how come Sadie the cleaning lady at some law firm has been signing nominee share deals for 5 years, has paper assets of millions of Baht and never paid a Baht of tax. The tax man any where in the world wants his pound of flesh and Thailand is no different, just a bit behind the times. Jim

**Jools** · 01-01-2012, 01:01 PM

They can't really HELP being scum, but do they have to be so arrogant??? The only people I am aware of that are overweeningly proud of their poverty and stupidity.

**ENT** · 01-01-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by somtamslap

There should be a massive sign as you walk through arrivals at swammpy.

IF YOU AREN'T HERE TO SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY ON A FORTNIGHT HOLIDAY, THEN TURN AROUND AND FUCK OFF!

Bang on!
Any one "investing" in Thai business and hoping to get a fair deal is just dreaming.

Lovely sensuous and seductive pleasures abound, a trap for fools.

Just remember the 4 Fs.

Find it, feel it, fwk it and forget it.

**sabang** · 01-01-2012, 02:25 PM

Vaguely following on from the theme of my last post, and I think a pretty good example of just how mind numbingly stupid Thailand often is- and how a large contributory factor in this is it's awful and corrupt bureaucracy, here's a 'typical Thai' bedtime story

.

I was refused the fifth re-issue of my Marriage Visa in Thailand in late 2010, in spite of being comfortably covered by cash in the local bank account, the same SCB account I had used since before arriving here and had served for my previous five annual visa's. Why? My 'crime' was having that local bank account in joint name with my legally wedded Thai wife, with whom I shared a conjugal house living in Thailand. Apparently, the loathsome bureaucrats in Immigration had arbitrarily decided to change the rules you see- and in Thailand this is not announced to you, you just have to find out for yourself. As I did, but too late. But why did they change the rules? What is the 'crime' in a husband keeping his bank account in joint name with his lawful spouse? Where is the damage to Thai interests- common sense tells you the bloody opposite, if anything it should be specified Marriage Visa's are to be supported by accounts in joint marital name. Silly me, mentioning common sense and Thailand in the same paragraph.

So a few foreign trips & border runs I neither wanted or should have needed were required, and I now am back on the standard marriage visa (until the next meaningless rule change

). Naturally there were stuff ups and frustrations here too- the 'annual visa' I was issued in Penang turned out to require 90 day (not the more logical three calendar months, naturally) trips to the border or overseas as well. Each and every one I resented, except the trip to Angkhor with me mate Tom.

Any inkling of weakness I was showing about perhaps investing 'more' (both financially and emotionally) in Thailand evaporated at that point- in fact we are incrementally moving some moneys offshore instead, because in a portfolio sense I have too much in this damn banana republic already. I came very close to moving to Langkawi Malaysia, very close indeed, in the depths of my sustained, impotent rage. Wife prevailed in the end

.

Unless you have actually lived here, I think you can only have a rough, theoretical concept of how this country can screw with your head. Of how utterly crooked, unfair, opaque, arbitrary, illogical- and ultimately infuriating- it can actually be. If it weren't for Mrs sab, I'd honestly be in Langkawi as we speak- no better off, perhaps no happier than I am already, but at least in a country with a great foreign visa system, where you are actually allowed to legitimately invest in a business, and own and work in that enterprise. And place some trust in it's laws.

For many of us, arrayed against all this state sanctioned bullshit and hypocrisy stands only one major thing- our Thai wife. They grew up with this bullshit, this arbitrary and unfair 'system'- and you actually wonder why they are the way they are, 'mai bpen rai' and all that? Psychologically, it's called a Survival mechanism. Probably Thailand's best export, in foreign currency terms, is the oft maligned Thai wife- the amount of 'no strings attached' money they bring in to this basically undeserving country must be awesome. I've been meaning to get this rant off my chest for some time, so today it is. Happy New Year.

**FailSafe** · 01-01-2012, 03:02 PM

It's possible to do business as a farang in Thailand and make a very nice living- it's just not easy- as far as I know, it's not easy to do that anywhere (though there are some serious obstacles that need to be overcome in LOS)- I always find the blanket statements of those who say any foreigner coming here to set up a business is a fool quite amusing.

What is DEFINITELY true is that if you couldn't make it in your home country (or anywhere else) you sure won't make it here (though previous success elsewhere is no guarantee of a repeat of it in Thailand).

**jamescollister** · 01-01-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

It's possible to do business as a farang in Thailand and make a very nice living- it's just not easy- as far as I know, it's not easy to do that anywhere (though there are some serious obstacles that need to be overcome in LOS)- I always find the blanket statements of those who say any foreigner coming here to set up a business is a fool quite amusing.

What is DEFINITELY true is that if you couldn't make it in your home country (or anywhere else) you sure won't make it here (though previous success elsewhere is no guarantee of a repeat of it in Thailand).

True you can make a living here, as I do, but everything is above board. Proper company set up, pay our VAT and taxes and never had any real problems.It's when you try to be smart and beat the system that it come back to bite you. Jim

**FailSafe** · 01-01-2012, 03:33 PM

Well of course you need to be properly set up- if your company is active and pays proper taxes, your likelihood of being subject to any sort of scrutiny is drastically lowered- it's the companies that only own a few pieces of land or a house or two without any other interests that might one day have problems (and even then it's not very likely, though there is a possibility- if I had the choice of owning something leasehold, buying it through a spouse I wasn't sure of, or setting up a company using proxies, I would set up the company).

**jamescollister** · 01-01-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Well of course you need to be properly set up- if your company is active and pays proper taxes, your likelihood of being subject to any sort of scrutiny is drastically lowered- it's the companies that only own a few pieces of land or a house or two without any other interests that might one day have problems (and even then it's not very likely, though there is a possibility- if I had the choice of owning something leasehold, buying it through a spouse I wasn't sure of, or setting up a company using proxies, I would set up the company).

Again true, but it is those proxies that will be the problem at some stage. On paper they have assest yet pay no taxes. The taxation system will catch up to the west one day, Governments want money and they close loop holes when they can. Jim

**FailSafe** · 01-01-2012, 04:00 PM

I agree- not paying taxes is a serious red flag- a decent accountant will prepare a company balance sheet every year with a nominal tax payment- if any foreigners are willing to set up a proxy company for the purchase of land/houses AND are dumb enough not to file proper paperwork, they deserve what they get.

**dirtydog** · 01-01-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by jamescollister

but it is those proxies that will be the problem at some stage. On paper they have assest yet pay no taxes.

Think you will find those proxies are listed as employees of the law companies and the companies do pay taxes for them, at least, thats what they do in Pattaya.

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