Thread: Thousands to occupy Wall Street in protest

^^

Dont let the bastards get you down

Originally Posted by robuzo

Don't waste your time "debating" with the likes of koman, just another representative of the Damaged Farang Male Resentment Brigade. He's practically a poster boy for the chimera of conservatism; it can take any form at all so long as it's reactionary. When he makes statements claiming that corporate welfare is "a new term coined by the socialists for incentives which helps corporations to be profitable and successful" rather than taxpayer-financed pork secured by lobbyists he pretty much disqualifies himself from intelligent conversation. Suddenly the Cato Institute is a liberal organization, apparently.

WTF is the "Damaged Farang Male Resentment Brigade"?.... Nice line, but like most of the lines used by you guys, it's completely meaningless....at least to me. What is it that you think I "resent". Seems to me all the "resentment" is coming from your side of this debate.

Social welfare is another farorite, but again totally meaningless and misleading term. I explained my positon of this and briefly explained why I held my opinion...so why don't you try to do the same instead of taking the hissy fit approach.

From your opening line, I have to assume that you only like to "debate" with those who agree with everything you believe, instead of facing a different set of arguments which make you squirm a bit..... bsnub and misskit will really appreciate your support.....they are struggling a bit recently.....

Originally Posted by koman

bsnub and misskit will really appreciate your support.....they are struggling a bit recently.....

Only in your own mind.

You are tiresome and suffer from grandiosity.

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by koman

bsnub and misskit will really appreciate your support.....they are struggling a bit recently.....

Only in your own mind.

You are tiresome and suffer from grandiosity.

Good Kitty. When one has no case left to make, go for the personal attack instead of dealing with any of the questions. Well done....
Grandiosity........ohhhhhh my.... Should I start posting muffin recipies now?... Looks like I need to get my folksy side in gear...maybe we can talk about bake sales for the "movement"....I heard on the news today that funds are runnin kinda low....

^ Keep the belief. Yes, you are superior. You are superior.......You have made no personal attacks, you are the perfect one. The rest of us are dregs under you.....zzzzzzzzzz



Occupy San Francisco gets down to business

After a brief hibernation, a refocused movement takes aim at corporate America




Warren Langley: from stock exchange chief to occupier


SAN FRANCISCO–Act II of the Occupy Wall Street movement, San Francisco version, kicked off on a rainy, blustery Friday in the heart of the city’s financial district. Targeting specific corporations like Wells Fargo and Bank of America and emphasizing real, tangible issues like home foreclosures, affordable health care and education as well as broader ones like the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision, several hundred protesters – the exact number was impossible to estimate – fanned out across the city, snarling traffic, getting arrested, holding sidewalk teach-ins, and generally serving notice that after its brief winter hibernation, the Occupy movement was back and kicking.

Occupy San Francisco gets down to business - Occupy Wall Street - Salon.com

Originally Posted by misskit

.......You have made no personal attacks, you are the perfect one. The rest of us are dregs under you.....zzzzzzzzzz

Very nice of you to say so...thanks.......but you don't need to be so hard on yourself and your buddies here on the OWS thread. I never suggested, or thought of anyone on here as "dregs"...honest. Sorry if you feel that way when confronted by enlighenment... Try ten minutes of flagellation each day..it may help to correct this erronious kind of thinking....

Lets see now; In this single thread I've been called:
Perfect, Arrogant, Grandiose, Tiresome, Fascist, Commie, A representative of the Damaged Farang Male Resentment Brigade, and a poster boy for the chimera of conservatism, plus a few other things that I can't recall.

Quite an accomplishment don't you think? Surely such talent should never be underestimated.......

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by koman

Lets see now; In this single thread I've been called:
Perfect, Arrogant, Grandiose, Tiresome, Fascist, Commie, A representative of the Damaged Farang Male Resentment Brigade, and a poster boy for the chimera of conservatism, plus a few other things that I can't recall.

Ah, the ever-victimized American conservative. Anyway, woe is you; I bet you've been called worse. Try not saying that the socialization of corporate gains and losses is not socialism and you won't appear so clueless and out of touch with reality. You at least claim to have saved/invested enough to comfortable in your retirement. You do realize that you and I can very likely thank a socialization of the losses by major banks and automobile companies to be in part responsible for our investment portfolios still retaining any value? Or if not you certainly the majority of people with IRAs and pension interests can be. Is the economy worse than it was in 2008? My portfolio sure as fuck isn't.

You constantly denigrate people you call "libbies" (a rather varied group), which might be OK if you had anything to offer other than "Screw you, I've got mine, you're a loser," particularly when addressing a presumably much younger person who is at least generous enough to pay attention to a cranky old geezer. I'm guessing it isn't easy to get younger people to listen to your bullshit unless they think you are planning to fork over a couple thousand baht at some point.

Another player enters the fray....
So you think I'm a "victimized American conservative" do you? Well you stumbled right at the starting line with your assumptions...I'm not American and I'm certainly not a victim. If you bothered to read through the thread instead of just poking your nose into a few posts and then joining in with those suffering from attention deficit, you might come to the conclusion that I'm not even that "conservative"

Is your defination of a conservative anyone that does not spout constant and vitrolic anti corporate crap without having any idea what they are talking about, but manage to find some suitable rhetoric through our good friend Google.....

In two posts you have clearly established yourself as another purveryor of left wing platitudes and choose to join in the personal attacks rather than contribute anything new or useful....

...and no the "socialization" of bank and car companies had no effect on me whatsoever because I predicted all this shit coming for years before it happened and acted accordingly......so I don't have to thank the so called "socialization" for anything. If you read back through my posts you would know that already....but instead you just jump to conclusions based a few comments about "libbies" and get it all dead wrong......and where the fuck did I ever say anything like "I've got mine, screw you"? Is that what you conclude from my description of how I managed to avoid the ravages of past recessions; the bank crisis and how I "got mine"?

Do you think that by defending corporations in general, I am in favor of bad corporate practices or unfair trade? Do you think that all banks are evil because the actions of a few nearly brought the whole system down.

Hundreds of banks were given "bailout" money.... because of the liquidity crisis caused by a few.
Do you think that anyone who planned ahead and called the shots right should be castigated because lots of others did not, even when the writing had been on the wall for years?

Would you drag your car to the wrecking yard because the radio quit working.....or put out the money for a new radio?

You seem to have no idea what I have been talking about....all you can see is my mostly "tongue in cheek" shots at some of our OWS defenders, and the OWS movement itself (and their mostly good natured shots back) so you come in with all guns blazing before you have even stopped to find out if there's a problem here.

All through this thread I have tried to keep it on the light side. No personal attacks anginst individuals....except for kidding around stuff with lots of little smilies to convey the message that none of this should be taked too seriously or personally. All shades of opinion welcome...do no harm.

Do you now wish to turn this into another TD pissing contest, because you have already managed to make it personal and somewhat nasty...and you certainly make a shitload of assumptions...even down to me having difficulty in communicating with "young people". You have absolutely no idea what your are talking about my good man.....

Did someone "recruit" you to come over and contaminate yet another thread with this kind of stuff, because the "young people" I'm supposed to be beating up on seem to be quite capable of defending their own turf very well so far....and as always, nobody is compelled to read or respond to anything I write if they don't wish to engage. Also, I have no idea who is young and who is not....and I don't see it as material to the discussions in any case.

Now; do you have something to contribute to the substance of this thread or not?

^ In this thread, you've been rude, stupid, vain, self-regarding, condescending, boastful, obtuse and (what with "Did someone "recruit" you to come over and contaminate yet another thread with this kind of stuff") paranoid. Of course, in your mind, you're a paragon of every fucking earthly virtue so I've no doubt you could study this thread for a thousand years and not find the evidence but if you're going to behave like a kunt, don't be surprised when people treat you like one, though I would have thought someone as sage and all-knowing as you would have realised that by now.

Originally Posted by Dan

^ In this thread, you've been rude, stupid, vain, self-regarding, condescending, boastful, obtuse and (what with "Did someone "recruit" you to come over and contaminate yet another thread with this kind of stuff") paranoid. Of course, in your mind, you're a paragon of every fucking earthly virtue so I've no doubt you could study this thread for a thousand years and not find the evidence but if you're going to behave like a kunt, don't be surprised when people treat you like one, though I would have thought someone as sage and all-knowing as you would have realised that by now.

Well fuck my old boots; another player has joined in. Two in one day. Things are looking up......

Now, Dan...do YOU have anything to say regarding the substance of this thread?
I know you have a reference list of all the standard TD insults and names to call people who hold different views, but really, do you have anything to say?

PS I'm conducting an immediate search for all that "rude, stupid, boastful, vain,
and obtuse" stuff you mentioned....or were you just kidding and forgot the smile thingy... I have done it myself a few times.... can be quite embarrassing

Sage.....by gad there's a term I like......must add that to me list.....

do YOU have anything to say regarding the substance of this thread?

What could I add to the omniscient

I predicted all this shit coming for years before it happened

Clearly, a divine fucking presence is here amongst us.

Originally Posted by koman

Now; do you have something to contribute to the substance of this thread or not?

"You at least claim to have saved/invested enough to comfortable in your retirement. You do realize that you and I can very likely thank a socialization of the losses by major banks and automobile companies to be in part responsible for our investment portfolios still retaining any value? Or if not you certainly the majority of people with IRAs and pension interests can be. Is the economy worse than it was in 2008?"

The topic of the thread is OWS. That crowd is upset because the top 1% in the US have been the greatest beneficiaries of the socialization of loss and the privatization of profit in the finance "industry," which has resulted in the worst income disparity since, and probably including, the Gilded Age.

Or do you have difficulty with the meaning of the word "substance"?

"Occupy" targets banks, corporate campaign spending - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Hundreds of Occupy activists clashed with police and stormed a vacant hotel in San Francisco on Friday, capping a day of protests in the city's financial district and separate anti-Wall Street rallies at federal courthouses across the country.

The rallies were seen as a bid by the Occupy Wall Street movement to reenergize protests against economic inequality and excesses of the U.S. financial system weeks after demonstrators were driven from tent camps in a wave of evictions nationwide.

The raucous takeover of the Cathedral Hill Hotel in San Francisco's upscale Pacific Heights neighborhood followed a march from downtown by about 1,000 demonstrators chanting, "Whose streets? Our streets!" and "Cops go home!"
The protesters were met by a phalanx of police in riot gear who had set up barricades at the front entrance to the U-shaped hotel complex, which stands several stories tall and takes up an entire city block.
The crowd surged toward the barriers to try to remove them and briefly scuffled with police, who jabbed protesters with batons and doused them with pepper spray, forcing demonstrators to retreat. Police said demonstrators hurled rocks, bottles and bricks at them, with two officers suffering minor injuries.
One man lay on the ground surrounded by fellow protesters yelling that he had been struck in the head. Demonstrators regrouped to march around the block, some breaking windows of a nearby car dealership, as police largely dispersed.
Later, a small group of activists who had earlier gained access to the hotel complex flung open the front doors, and scores of their cheering cohorts streamed inside without resistance from police.

"Now we occupy our new home," organizer Craig Rouskie declared, adding that demonstrators planned to spend the night but expected that police would eventually move in to oust them.

Earlier in the day, Occupy San Francisco protesters staged various acts of civil disobedience at 22 bank branches and other offices in the city's financial district, including a group who chained themselves to entrances of the Wells Fargo headquarters.
Police said 18 protesters were arrested throughout the day.
"Many banks have taken steps to mitigate the impact," San Francisco Police Commander Richard Corriea said. Wells Fargo told many employees to work from home, he added.

Donna Vieira, 42, a real estate appraiser, said she was protesting because the bank had "unfairly" foreclosed on her home in Reno, Nevada, last year.
"Nobody is going after the big banks. And loss and pain and suffering doesn't matter to the regulators," Vieira said.

OCCUPY THE COURTS
Protesters also turned out under the banner "Occupy the Courts" at some 150 courthouses nationwide to protest a Supreme Court decision in 2010 that protesters complain has led to unbridled corporate spending in political campaigns.
The Supreme Court ruled that the government cannot restrict political speech and spending by corporations, unions and other outside groups, allowing political action committees (PACs) to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money in campaigns -- creating what are known as Super PACs.

The ruling in the case known as Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission has led to more than $25 million in spending so far this campaign season by outside groups seeking to influence the 2012 presidential election.
In Washington, a couple of hundred protesters gathered outside the Supreme Court, chanting "Rights are for people, not for corporations!" Police arrested 12 people.

"I don't see how a real democracy of the people can take place when so much money is in our electoral system," said Lucy Craig, 36, a protester from New Jersey.

About 200 protesters demonstrated peacefully in Denver outside the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, carrying signs that read "Citizens United Not Fair."

The nonprofit organization Move to Amend organized "Occupy the Courts" to launch its campaign to amend the U.S. Constitution, seeking to abolish corporate constitutional rights and establish that money is not speech.

Move to Amend had expected up to 25,000 people to rally across the United States on Friday, spokesman David Cobb said. Occupy protest crowds tend to number in the hundreds rather than thousands of people, despite the movement's headline-grabbing actions and social media savvy.

More than 100 protesters rallied outside the federal courthouse in Boston, while 75 people protested in front of the federal courthouse in Atlanta. In Phoenix, about 50 protesters marched outside the Sandra Day O'Connor U.S. Court House.

"Four hundred Americans control all the wealth," said Mickey Mize, a spokesman for Occupy Phoenix. "They are the ones who control the job market, they are trying to control everything from education to our birthrights."

Protests at federal courthouses in New York City and Charlottesville, Virginia, each drew about 100 people.

Inspired by the Arab Spring, Occupy Wall Street began when protesters set up camp in New York's Zuccotti Park in September, sparking demonstrations across the United States and elsewhere in the world and, in some cases, violent clashes with police.

But the eviction of protesters in New York and public spaces in other U.S. cities in November and December has made the protests less visible, and organizers now face the challenge of how to maintain momentum without the physical encampments.

Protesters say they are upset that billions of dollars in bailouts given to banks during the recession allowed a return to huge profits while average Americans have had no relief from high unemployment and a struggling economy.

Critics accuse the Occupy protest of not having a clear message or demands and a new poll on Friday of more than 17,000 people by global research company Ipsos for Reuters found the movement's ambiguity could be hindering its growth.

More than half of those surveyed were unsure how they felt about the movement, while a third sympathized with the protesters and 13 percent had an unfavorable view.

[quote=Dan;1995047]

do YOU have anything to say regarding the substance of this thread?

What could I add to the omniscient

What indeed. In other words you have fuck all to say...period.


Clearly, a divine fucking presence is here amongst us.

Another brilliant pearl of wisdom......Jaysus H. Christ..........

Off you go now....back to the MKP section.....

Originally Posted by robuzo

Or do you have difficulty with the meaning of the word "substance"?

No, I understand the word and the context, thank you. So what are you attacking exactly....just me, or some of the things I have written?

The OWS movement is about demanding change...right? I have stated many times in this thread that I too would like to see changes...and I have itemized a list of those changes for all to see. On that, most of the posters here seem to be in agreement. So what we are really arguing about is the likelyhood of the OWS movement having any significant impact on the political/economic forces of the world....and perhaps more specifically about the methods and tactics being used. Thats it FFS......it's not about resistance to change....

For the most part we have had some good exchanges and a bit of banter and harmless shots at each other. I respect the views of my opponents and although I may take fun shots at them, I don't go out of my way to insult them. I've even had quite a few greens from people who totally disagree with me FFS. That's what this thread has been mostly about up till now.

Everybody and his fucking dog knows that the system is seriously flawed and needs reform, so it's all about who does it, and how. It's not very practical to repeat all the points I've made about this over the past weeks but they are all there to be seen for anyone who is interested. If you wish to have a civil exchange about any of them please do so....but I'm not going to engage in a name calling, pissing contest with anyone. I'm way past caring what people think of me personally and I don't need to impress

I would say however that my mind is quite receptive to a good point, well argued by a reasonable person. I believe it was Milton Keynes who once said "When the facts change, so does my opinion" I have never met anyone who was persuaded to change an opinion as a result of being called silly names....how bout you??

Wall Streeters Mock Occupy and Poor People at Fancy Frat Party

One of the things that makes Wall Streeters so unsympathetic is that, even when disdain for their greed has not just spread across America but across the world, they don't seem to realize it. And if they do? Well, they don't give a flying fuck.
Last week, an exclusive Wall Street fraternity, Kappa Beta Phi, held a super-fancy black-tie dinner at the St. Regis Hotel in Manhattan, and a New York Times reporter was able to witness it. What he saw was behavior so appalling and unsympathetic to the plight of the poor it was almost a parody of itself:

The Occupy movement was fodder for several after-dinner skits. In one, a documentary filmed during the protests, James Lebenthal, a bond specialist, joked with a protester whose face was appeared to be tattooed.
“Go home, wash that off your face, and get back to work,” Mr. Lebenthal told the protester.
Reached through his daughter on Friday, Mr. Lebenthal declined to comment.

In another skit, William Mulrow , a senior managing director at the Blackstone Group, put on raggedy clothes to play the part of an Occupy protester. Emil W. Henry Jr., a managing partner at Tiger Infrastructure Partners and a fellow new Kappa, joined him dressed as a wealthy baron.
“Bill, look at you! You’re pathetic, you liberal! You need a bath!” Mr. Henry said, voice full of mock indignation.
“You callow, insensitive Republican!” Mr. Mulrow said. “Don’t you know we need to create jobs?”
A Blackstone spokesman declined to comment on Mr. Mulrow’s behalf. Mr. Henry was not immediately available for comment.

Kappa Beta Phi was formed in 1929 by top Wall Street barons, and the rest of the Times piece sounds like we haven't left that year. In one paragraph listing attendees, you half expect F. Scott Fitzgerald to show up on there. It's absolutely necessary reading.
Another special excerpt: "Some jokes took aim at industry outsiders like Representative Barney Frank, the Democrat of Massachusetts who has been an advocate of financial regulation." It's a sneak peek into the psychology of Wall Street during this tumultuous time, and clearly they're all still telling the rest of America to fuck off.



Disgusting: Wall Streeters Mock Occupy and Poor People at Fancy Frat Party | AlterNet

^
Gettin' yer ass handed to you by koman again there Bad Pussy?

Originally Posted by Hampsha

In the end, it is all a matter of how far you are willing to go to get what your side wants whether the argument is with a neighbor or with half of the world. There are no rights or wrongs. The world is just an evolution of power. Those who control now did what they had to do right or wrong to get more power. If the 99% wants to improve its situation in any country they must do what they have to do, right or wrong, to get that power. Taking the people off the top of the pyramid is the first step to those below improving their lives.

Very good observation Hampsha. A sensible comment indeed.
Taking down any "system"...even a bad one, should not be done in a haphazard way however. You have to have something to replace it with, and that is often not the case. We have recently seen revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt which the free world applauded with gusto. Bring down the bastards and let the people have the power everyone yelled. Fair enough so far.

Both these countries are now facing even more uncertain futures than under their respective dictators. Unemployment has soared in both. Their economies are in shreds and their politics have been hijacked by Islamist parties of one kind or another. Not necessarily extremists, but nobody really knows yet. It may well turn out well for them in the long term, but both countries have been set back...perhaps for decades.

As one young Tunisian said on TV. "We have democracy now, but when I go to the supermarket to buy bread, milk and meat, I have no money. You can't buy any of those things with democracy. Before we had democracy, I had a job, and money to buy food, now I have nothing"

So change is sometimes good and necessary, but not always. You have to be careful what you wish for. Change by evolution tends to be better and less damaging than change by revolution.

Howling for the downfall of the banking system or "Corporate America" is all well and good but it is the corporations great and small that generate most of the wealth and it is the dreaded fractional banking system that provides the means to do it.

The banking system itself was not the cause of the problem.....it was lack of common sense regulation of the system that allowed things to happen the way they did. Lack of regulation and/or failure to enforce regulations allow greed and ambition to take over and run amok. It involved multiple layers of players all the way from the big investment banks down to the local real estate agents, appraisers and even borrowers themselves. The dirivitives market is a whole story on its own, and again these marvellous instruments could only be traded they way they were in an unregulated enviorment.

That is precicely what happened..a whole system out of control through lack of governance.

Fractional banking has been around for a long long time. It has worked extremely well most of the time and has provided the mechanisms that allow growth and expansion of the wealth generators. Huge improvements in wealth and living standards were accomplished under the fractional banking system. This occured over many decades in a climate of tight control and regulation.....up until the misguided leaders of men in places like Washington, New York and London, decided that we did not need regulation any more.

Removing those at the top of the pyramid would be a good start, but there are many layers of entrenched interests below them. It needs to be accomplished one layer at a time to maintain good order. If a haphazard approach were to be successful (and that seems highly unlikely) the result would be an economy and social upheaval that would make the last few years look like the good old days.

Something like what Frank Costello (Whitey Bulger) says at the beginning of The Departed might be appropriate:
"I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me. Years ago we had the church. That was only a way of saying - we had each other. The Knights of Columbus were real head-breakers; true guineas. They took over their piece of the city. Twenty years after an Irishman couldn't get a fucking job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace. That's what the niggers don't realize. If I got one thing against the black chappies, it's this - no one gives it to you. You have to take it."

Gerald Celente: Occupy Movement Is Just Starting
Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:48


We are not even a month into the New Year and there are many controversial laws that are in the works or have been passed. From SOPA, Stop Online Piracy Act, to the NDAA, National Defense Authorization Act, many Americans feel their liberties are slowly slipping away.

The Occupy Wall Street movement has been more than vocal with their dissatisfaction with the job Congress has been doing and Gerald Celente, director of Trends Research Institute, joins us to discuss an array of topics and gives us some of his predictions for 2012.

Before It's News

Originally Posted by koman

Howling for the downfall of the banking system or "Corporate America" is all well and good but it is the corporations great and small that generate most of the wealth and it is the dreaded fractional banking system that provides the means to do it.

Only a relatively few extremists in OWS call for the complete dismantling of the current capitalist system (I don't). The majority's message, however, is that we want these corporations and banks reined in, regulated, and strongly reduce their overwhelming power to corrupt the political system (most important). That is the heart of the movement.

Just about everything you've written on this topic has been well reasoned and highly articulate, Koman. I don't agree with everything, of course - we have different world views and experiences - but I understand where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by koman

The banking system itself was not the cause of the problem.....it was lack of common sense regulation of the system that allowed things to happen the way they did. Lack of regulation and/or failure to enforce regulations allow greed and ambition to take over and run amok.

Meanwhile it's mostly only the "libbies" and the lefties and a few old-time conservatives, like Paul Volcker, who are calling for better and stronger regulations that for decades did much to prevent the banking disaster we are still experiencing. The Republican politicians are calling for less regulation, practically in unison (one or two exceptions, such as McCain) while a good many Democrats remain in the bag for big finance. Of course, it is important to bear in mind that it was Clinton and his boys Rubin and Summers who led the way in dismantling Glass-Steagall, with encouragement from Greenspan, a lunatic Rand worshiper, and that is what set the stage for the crisis. Reinstating Glass-Steagall seems entirely reasonable, but the Lords of the Universe (aka the 1%) won't allow it.

For those of you still unclear about what OWS is upset about (other than the fact that jobs for new grads are so scarce), the following is quite illuminating, or should be:
Jacob Hacker & Paul Pierson on Engineered Inequality | Moyers & Company | BillMoyers.com
Jacob Hacker & Paul Pierson on Engineered Inequality
January 13, 2012
In this show segment, Moyers & Company dives into one of the most important and controversial issues of our time: How Washington and Big Business colluded to make the super-rich richer and turn their backs on the rest of us.

Bill’s guests – Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson, authors of Winner-Take-All Politics: How Washington Made the Rich Richer — And Turned Its Back on the Middle Class, argue that America’s vast inequality is no accident, but in fact has been politically engineered.

How, in a nation as wealthy as America, can the economy simply stop working for people at large, while super-serving those at the very top? Through exhaustive research and analysis, the political scientists Hacker and Pierson — whom Bill regards as the “Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson” of economics — detail important truths behind a 30-year economic assault against the middle class.

^This was posted by snub here before. Check out post 2164 for the reply.

There is a second part to this program I saw today. Will try to find it and post.