Thread: 9/11 truth

Better report the posts concerned.
Let's hope the mods will take appropriate action.

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

good job I'm not too sensitive.

But too fuckin pig-headed to click the link and look at plane parts eh?

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Having conclusively proven that there was no plane at the pentagon, we shall tomorrow be examining the WTC 7 nonsense.

Guess you did not see the pics of the planes engines inside the pentagon walls then ????

WTC 7 collapsed because it was damaged by falling debris and most of 1 whole corner was gone. several firefighters, policeman and civilian witnesses have publicly stated that the building was leaning very badly and it was no surprise that it collapsed !!!!

why do people such as KERUX AND YOURSELF think that your opinion outweighs that of hundreds eye witnesses and hundreds of professional demolition firms that say the wtc buildings were not a controlled demolition??????????

I would be willing to bet you believed Charles Manson when he stated he was god , didn't ya

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Well monkey boy Bush managed to pull off the most remarkable coordinated attack on his own people.

It is truly remarkable, I quite agree.
I doubt however that Bush was pulling any strings.

After succesfully proving that the the pentagon was not hit by a plane, we should move on soon to discuss the twin towers lies.

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77

American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 59 people aboard.



CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was a flight attendant and the wife of Kenneth Lewis.

Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was a flight attendant and the husband of Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.



PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

CMN perhaps you could explain what happened to these people and the Boeing 757 they were on?

I'm still waiting for an answer CMN! This is where your conspiracy theory really falls apart.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I think most americans now believe that they weren't told the full story and that there is something missing in the scenario.

Fuck it's a no brainer even if "average" americans figured that one. Only our resident skeptics keeps a blind eye on the whole situation and a closed mind. Maybe they are afraid to be hurt by a glimpse of the truth.

Believe it or not I also think the government is lying or not telling the whole story. But I do happen to believe a plane hit the Pentagon based on my own thinking and not on what I read on the internet. Logic tells me that a plane hit the Pentagon; a missile could not have punched its way through three rings of the Pentagon and destroyed the front of the Pentagon at the same time. Only the destruction of numerous concrete reinforcements in a wide pattern could do such a thing (and the blackened roof is a dead giveaway of a massive fire...not possible from a missile).

^ ya forgot that a missle would have had to flown a zig- zag pattern to knock down all of the light poles that were hit, all the while not exploding while knocking them down !!!

A cruise missile would have caused this kind of damage as well:

Originally Posted by RDN

^ OK, so now FF and Surasak have shown that there WAS a plane

No he didn't but nice try.

Neither can anyone show it was a missile or not a plane. If a missile hit the Pentagon then explain why there's a hole going three levels into the Pentagon with black flames and a fireball on the outer ring, charred roof structures far away from the impact point, and, explain how the missile failed to explode on impact. If it was a missile why was there little damage suggesting an explosion? Why did the debris from the impact carry forward rather than explode outwards? I don't see anyone showing evidence that it was a missle or other object. I do see people demonstrating how a plane could have caused that destruction. The only way to prove it wasn't a plane would be to have evidence of the same kind of aircraft slamming into a similar structure and surviving largely intact. There is no such crash in history to use as a reference, therefore, how could anyone logically suggest what would survive such a crash and what wouldn't?

Originally Posted by surasak

how could anyone logically suggest

OK now here's where ya lost the plot pal, Conspiracy theorists and logic??? Where's the fun in that? Let 'em rant.

Originally Posted by surasak

Neither can anyone show it was a missile or not a plane

Correct. And therefore both sides are conspiracy theories. We really don't know.

Originally Posted by surasak

If a missile hit the Pentagon then explain why there's a hole going three levels into the Pentagon

We don't what kind of missiles, and frankly how many missiles tech specs do you intimately know ?

Originally Posted by surasak

The only way to prove it wasn't a plane

Well there is a way but the government won't release it. The missing frames of the parking lot cam. Did you see the existing footage btw ? why wouldn't they release the fulll version ? kinda suspicious isn't it ? if you have nothing to hide, why are they hidding it ?

The only possible explanation for a missile would be a cruise missile. They are the only kind designed for low altitude, to evade radar, and hit a target almost perpendicular to the face (i.e. useful for taking out things not accessible by aircraft guided bombs). The problem with the cruise missile theory is that cruise missiles have to be fired from something. A ship, another airplane, etc. There would people who would know about this. Would the government simply make them disappear to avoid the truth coming out? Be reasonable, nobody went missing after 9-11 did they? The trajectory could suggest a missile if the third ring exploded and contained most of the destruction. But that wasn't the case. The debris and destruction is just like that projected by the Perdue University study.

I'm of the theory, however, that if the government is lying about the plane then why not cover up the fact that WMDs weren't found? Sure a government that could devise such as scheme as to destroy the WTCs and the Pentagon would also plant WMDs in Iraq to make it appear the government was correct and the world was wrong. What I do think is plausible is that the government fucked up, or, possibly was complacent in allowing the attacks to happen to promote the neocon agenda. I don't buy the theories that something other than a plane went into the WTCs and the Pentagon.

I know you've heard Rumsfeld's statement about a 'missile' hitting the Pentagon, but, in general terms I'm sure you know a missile also means any projectile that hits a target (like an arrow, for example, can be called a missile).

Originally Posted by surasak

Would the government simply make them disappear to avoid the truth coming out? Be reasonable, nobody went missing after 9-11 did they?

How would you know ? did you tally everybody yourself ? how about the old security guy who saw everything from the Pentagon Parking Lot. He wouldn't talk and died of a "heart attack" 3 months later.

I don't think the "government" per so did it. But a black op from a special unit could have been involved with the Mossad. A bit of a stretch and sounds too much like a movie, but sometimes reality goes beyond fiction, so really who knows. Again, Bush might have known about it, but hardly organizing it. Too stupid to tight his own shoes.

If enough people suddenly turned up missing there would be someone who would put two and two together. To pull off a massive coverup requires quite a few people and you can't go around knocking people off for the risk of being caught. Easy to coverup an assassination but something of this magnitude? Nah, I'm sure it was a plane. People just expect large chunks of plane and when the plane disintegrates they can't comprehend how it could happen.

In contrast if some intelligence were put together very few would know the whole truth since the intelligence agencies piece stuff together and assemble it up the food chain. Those at the top know everything; those at the bottom know nothing other than pieces of something. Easy to cover.

That's why I go with the theory that the attacks were known about but not stopped. Maybe even assisted to some small degree.

And that's the scary part since death due to terrorism doesn't even make the list of the top threats to the average American's life:

Odds of Dying - NSC

Would there have been any support at all for the Iraq war without 9-11?

Originally Posted by surasak

Would there have been any support at all for the Iraq war without 9-11?

NO, don't believe there would have been a lot of support either for invading Iraq as "we wont their oil and a strategic position in the Middle East for further escapades"!

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Having conclusively proven that there was no plane at the pentagon, we shall tomorrow be examining the WTC 7 nonsense.

Er.... you forgot the landing gear found at the Pentagon. Or couldn't you be bothered to click on the link?







And then there was the remains of an engine:




Next conspiracy please!

Originally Posted by surasak

Neither can anyone show it was a missile or not a plane. If a missile hit the Pentagon then explain why there's a hole going three levels into the Pentagon with black flames and a fireball on the outer ring, charred roof structures far away from the impact point, and, explain how the missile failed to explode on impact. If it was a missile why was there little damage suggesting an explosion? Why did the debris from the impact carry forward rather than explode outwards? I don't see anyone showing evidence that it was a missle or other object. I do see people demonstrating how a plane could have caused that destruction. The only way to prove it wasn't a plane would be to have evidence of the same kind of aircraft slamming into a similar structure and surviving largely intact. There is no such crash in history to use as a reference, therefore, how could anyone logically suggest what would survive such a crash and what wouldn't?

Nice try Surasak, but "logic" isn't much use here.

Nice picture of the reinforced thick concrete wall with a hole punched right through. But not much evidence of an explosion:

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by surasak

Would the government simply make them disappear to avoid the truth coming out? Be reasonable, nobody went missing after 9-11 did they?

How would you know ? did you tally everybody yourself ?

What? You want him to personally visit all the dead peoples' relatives and ask them if they saw them get on Flight 77 and whether they are still alive? That's a bit much isn't it?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

how about the old security guy who saw everything from the Pentagon Parking Lot. He wouldn't talk and died of a "heart attack" 3 months later.

People have heart attacks all the time. Including "old security guys".

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I don't think the "government" per so did it. But a black op from a special unit could have been involved with the Mossad. A bit of a stretch and sounds too much like a movie,

Yes it does - is it like that '24' program too?

Originally Posted by surasak

And that's the scary part since death due to terrorism doesn't even make the list of the top threats to the average American's life:

Odds of Dying - NSC

Would there have been any support at all for the Iraq war without 9-11?

Yes,

Without 9/11 The Iraq invasion could not have happened.

Within days after the attacks, the administration started the planning. Also within days, the administration took steps to strengthen he Executive branch, which it is still doing today.

ENT - are u in the pub with CMN?

how many pints has he bought you for this?

Originally Posted by slimboyfat

ENT - are u in the pub with CMN?

how many pints has he bought you for this?

i can confirm he isn't unless he's the 60 year old woman using wireless in the corner.
show me the plane slimboy.
my mind is open even though i know i'm right.

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by slimboyfat

ENT - are u in the pub with CMN?

how many pints has he bought you for this?

i can confirm he isn't unless he's the 60 year old woman using wireless in the corner.
show me the plane slimboy.
my mind is open even though i know i'm right.

i dont have time for such things.

the main mystery to me is how you can get a job where you play golf and drink beer almost every day.

(ok mods u can delete this - i know its OOT)