Quote Originally Posted by Panda
Thats where your argument falls down badly there Koman.
Where does it fall down?. Britain was not under direct imminent threat. In fact the historical records show that Hitler originally did not want war with the "British Empire" at all. His vision was too build fortress Europe and then form a global alliance with Britain to take advantage of its international standing and trading partnerships etc.

Britain declared war on Germany because of its treaty obligations....you could argue for humanitarian reasons, but that might be stretching it a bit... Churchill understood the longer term implications and so in the midst of "peace in our time" speeches and a very war weary constituency he took on his "war monger" role...and was harshly criticized for it, by less clear sighted folks. Looks like he called the game pretty well though... The right guy in the right place at the right time in history.

He also had a lot to do with getting the Americans (who really wanted no part of a dumb European war) into the action....with the Japanese helping his cause of course... Like I said, real leaders are ahead of the curve...and they don't follow the crowd...that's what makes them leaders.

Anyway, my Churchill story was not meant to distract from the main argument. It's just a historical footnote...and we do live in very different times. There are mechanisms in place which are supposed to prevent countries from going to war...the trouble is that the main mechanism is badly flawed and needs a serious makeover. If it was really effective there would not be any nations ruled by the likes of Saddam Hussein, Col Gadaffi, or any of the other thugs than manage to grab power by means of force and then hide behind the diplomatic morass of the "international community" and it's mouthpiece; the impotent and almost totally useless UN.
It's better than nothing, but only just... If the UN was really effective the resolution would read something like: "All member states are free to enter Libya at a time and place of their choosing, and using whatever means are deemed necessary. They are further authorized to capture Momamar Gadaffi; all members of his family and members of his government, past and present. They are further authorized to remove the captives to a save haven to await trial for crimes against the populations of Libya and crimes against citizens of the international community" Together with the enforcement of a resolution like that, and the freezing of all bank accounts and seizure of all assets of the regime; how many thugs and dictators around the world would continue to operate the way they do??

The feudal era ended some time ago....nobody should be able to take a nation by force, hold it captive down the barrel of his hired guns and loot the treasury for his own ends. The world should be at a stage where all people are free to choose who governs them. If they choose poorly, they pay a price but they should then be free to try again with newly chosen leadership. I have no understanding of people who make excuses for thugs and dictators.....