Thread: The Libyan Crisis

We would not need to speak of this if this was Thatcher + Reagan times. It would have been done already. Now it is reduced to common politics.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Libya: William Hague calls on Nato to step up attacks - Telegraph

"Arriving at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg, the Foreign Secretary called on the Alliance to increase the tempo of military strikes and insisted that there could be no peace in Libya until Col. Gaddafi departed.
”We must maintain and intensify our efforts in Nato. That is why the UK has in the last week supplied additional aircraft for striking ground targets threatening the civilian population of Libya,” he said.
”Of course, it would be welcome if other countries also do the same. There is always more to do.”
France today criticised Nato for not doing enough to destroy Gaddafi's ground forces and the heavy weapons used to besiege the city of Misurata.
Alain Juppe, the French foreign minister, reminded the Alliance that it had taken over military operations despite reservations in Paris from a coalition led by France, Britain and the US.!

"”Nato must play its role fully. It wanted to take the lead in operations, we accepted that. It must play its role today which means preventing Gaddafi from using heavy weapons to shell populations,” he said.
An African Union plan to halt Libya's civil war collapsed on Monday after rebels said the bloody six-week siege of Misurata by Gaddafi's troops made talk of a ceasefire meaningless"

"Mr Hague stressed that before there could be any halt to Nato bombing raids the Gaddafi regime must pull back from Ajdabiya, Misrata, and Zawiya, allowing full access for humanitarian assistance in all of Libya.
”It includes disengaging from the towns and cities in which Gaddafi's forces are attacking the civilian population. It means a real ceasefire, a genuine ceasefire. Twice the regime has announced a ceasefire but has continued to bombard the people of Misurata and many other locations,” he said.
”The important thing is to get a real ceasefire and then it would be possible under UN or other auspices for that to be monitored. Of course, to have any viable peaceful future for Libya, Col. Gaddafi needs to leave.”"

Regime change it is then, no ceasefire acceptance by the french and the UK. Will another UNSC resolution be required and if so will it be passed?

"A ship that can hold up to 1,000 people is on its way from Italy to Libya to evacuate stranded migrant workers from Misrata, the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) said on Tuesday.
The chartered vessel will dock in the eastern rebel-held town of Benghazi later in the day to load humanitarian supplies including food, water, blankets and medical supplies before sailing to Misrata, 130 miles east of Tripoli, it said.
”Aid workers believe that there may be thousands of people trapped in the city, unable to leave their homes or communicate with the outside world, but in urgent need of humanitarian assistance,” said an IOM statement."

It will be interesting to see who, and how many, leave. I wonder if the "media" will be there.

And happy Songkran!

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

France has played a particularly aggressive role in Libya in recent weeks, pushing diplomatically for a U.N. resolution to allow the international military operation and firing the first strikes in the campaign. France also was the first to recognize the Libyan opposition and to send a diplomatic envoy to the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

and let's not forget why,

BHL, a friend of Carla and probably an ex-lover, is a modern philosopher who like to do PR stunts and went to meet Sarko to push for an intervention after he went alone to meet "protesters" in Tunisian, Egypt and now Libya, again to make himself shine and the center of attention in the press.

after his meeting with Sarko, our good president was sold and started to push hard.

There is also another theory floating around. BHL has been "rumored" to be "an agent of Israel" for quite a while and has publicly given "allegiance" to Israel for no apparent logical reason. It seems a bit far stretched, but in this world, science fiction is often behind reality.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

France has played a particularly aggressive role in Libya in recent weeks, pushing diplomatically for a U.N. resolution to allow the international military operation and firing the first strikes in the campaign. France also was the first to recognize the Libyan opposition and to send a diplomatic envoy to the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

and let's not forget why,

BHL, a friend of Carla and probably an ex-lover, is a modern philosopher who like to do PR stunts and went to meet Sarko to push for an intervention after he went alone to meet "protesters" in Tunisian, Egypt and now Libya, again to make himself shine and the center of attention in the press.

after his meeting with Sarko, our good president was sold and started to push hard.

There is also another theory floating around. BHL has been "rumored" to be "an agent of Israel" for quite a while and has publicly given "allegiance" to Israel for no apparent logical reason. It seems a bit far stretched, but in this world, science fiction is often behind reality.

If french minister was a mossad agent, all the good for him!

Originally Posted by OhOh

I wonder how the Chinese feel about their "investment" in US bonds being "frozen".

US could not freeze Chinese money. In this world Chinese rule and US in debt so much that americans should thank every day with their morning prayers "and to almighty god and the chinese bringing this bread"...

getting better, setting up "secret" slash funds to finance an illegal war

Originally Posted by Butterfly

getting better, setting up "secret" slash funds to finance an illegal war

You should be worried then. As we are on the winning side. Are you a terrorist?

Originally Posted by nostromo

Originally Posted by Butterfly

getting better, setting up "secret" slash funds to finance an illegal war

You should be worried then. As we are on the winning side. Are you a terrorist?

Its not so much about terrorism as about economics. Though the two are often linked. Instability in a significant oil exporting country like Libya pushes up the world price for oil because it causes uncertainty in stability of supply. This should be quite obvious by the spike in oil prices since the trouble in the Middle East began.

The west didnt start the trouble in Libya, but once it looked like it was going to be a protracted civil war, they had to pick a side. Gaddafi is regarded as a bit of a loose cannon (read eccentric and difficult to control) trading partner, an so the west decided it was best he be replaced. They thought that with UN Security Council resolution 1973 Gaddafi would be ousted in short time and a new government set up. Thats not the way its panning out at present however, and the prospects of a drawn out civil war are looking more likely. UN resolution 1973 isn't doing the job and so other options such as arming and funding the rebels are being considered.

The outward, (and morally indisputable) justification for UN resolution 1973 was to protect civilians, but the underlying hidden agenda was of course, regime change.

If humanitarian considerations were the primary driving force behind western military and political interference in the Middle East, USA and its western hangers on would be invading Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. But they are not, because these draconian, murderous dictatorships are relatively stable with rulers compliant to western economic needs.

Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs

The blame game is on in Libya
By Victor Kotsev

"TEL AVIV - If anyone had remaining doubts about the fog of war that descended on Libya in the last weeks, the confused bickering that has completely taken over more recently should clear those.

More cynical - or astute - observers claim that the whole thing was a masquerade from the start, a cover for a full-scale Arab counter-revolution or even a diversion of world attention from more pressing global problems such as the disaster in Japan, the financial crisis and the rattled international system.

Others blame the situation on glaring incompetence. While some of the former claims make sense as well, evidence of the latter is overwhelming, and incompetence does not exclude conspiracy.

Some of the latest news from Libya is that France and Britain are accusing the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) of not doing enough. "NATO must play its role fully. It wanted to take the lead in operations, we accepted that," French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said on Tuesday.

It looks like the blame game is in full swing. First the United States, which was instrumental in starting the bombing campaign, dumped Libya on its European allies led by Britain and France. Now, the latter two are trying to avoid responsibility for the debacle by pointing a finger at NATO (as if they, alongside the US, did not comprise a major part of the alliance)."

continues....

Nope - it's just a distraction away from the real cvnts in the Arabias but it will end in a split of the Libyan oil spoils and will keep China away from the Med. That's all.

Originally Posted by OhOh

It has helped the price of gold, time to sell or should have yesterday!!!!!

Originally Posted by koman

Don't sell your gold just yet.....

Up another US$25

Libya: Moussa Koussa removed from EU sanctions list as a 'reward' - Telegraph

"Moussa Koussa, the former Libyan foreign minister, has been removed from a European Union sanctions list as a "reward" for abandoning the Gaddafi regime."

He has taken his traitors "shilling" from the UK government.

Originally Posted by OhOh

More cynical - or astute - observers claim that the whole thing was a masquerade from the start, a cover for a full-scale Arab counter-revolution or even a diversion of world attention from more pressing global problems such as the disaster in Japan, the financial crisis and the rattled international system.

Others blame the situation on glaring incompetence. While some of the former claims make sense as well, evidence of the latter is overwhelming, and incompetence does not exclude conspiracy.

pretty well summarized here, it's probably both, a mix of overwhelming incompetence and a distraction to protect certain allies like Bahrain and SA

Originally Posted by OhOh

"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton did not say whether the U.S. would send more ground attack craft, but she appealed to the other Nato foreign ministers for unity over the Libyan campaign.
"As our mission continues, maintaining our resolve and unity only grows more important," Mrs Clinton said. "Gaddafi is testing our determination."
NATO'S 28 members are "sharing the same goal, which is to see the end of the Gaddafi regime in Libya," Mrs Clinton said. "We must also intensify our political, diplomatic and economic mission to pressure and isolate Gadhafi and bring about his departure."
She said, however, that regime change was outside NATO'S military mandate.
In Cairo, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon chaired a meeting of regional and international organisations on Libya and set three targets: reaching and implementing a ceasefire, delivering humanitarian aid and starting a dialogue on Libya's future."

what a fucking farce, she is really a useless bitch

Female Colombian snipers 'fighting to defend Col Gaddafi in Libya'

Female Colombian snipers suspected of belonging to the Marxist guerilla group FARC are fighting as mercenaries defending Colonel Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, according to rebel forces. Mercenaries fighting for Col Gaddafi's regime are reportedly being paid up to $1,000 a day Photo: REXPrisoners loyal to Col Gaddafi and eyewitnesses in Misurata, the largest city in western Libya partially under rebel control, have given accounts of highly-trained women snipers from the South American country operating in the area.

Mercenaries fighting for Col Gaddafi's regime are reportedly being paid up to $1,000 a day.

None of the Colombians have yet been captured or killed but according to rebels they are part of a wider force of snipers basing themselves on high buildings in Misurata.

The female fighters are likely to be members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), which has been fighting Colombia's government since the 1960s.

Information found on computers belonging to Raul Reyes, a FARC commander killed by Colombian soldiers in 2008, indicated that the guerilla group has long-standing links to Libya.


Investigators found a letter dated September 4 2000 addressed to 'Comrade Colonel Muammar Gaddafi', which requested a five-year loan of $100m to buy weapons such as surface-to-air missiles.

Juan Manuel Santos, the Colombian president, said recently that it is "clear ... that [FARC] still has connections to Gaddafi."

In an interview he told the German magazine Der Spiegel that Libya had offered FARC $300m but admitted he did not know if the money had ever been received.

Rebels in Libya claim they have evidence that Col Gaddafi has also received assistance from mercenaries or supporters originating from countries as diverse as Algeria, Belarus and Chad.

The FARC potecting the Colonel....that should appeal to the TD lunatic fringe...Of course the Colonel has provided funding and weapons to the FARC for many years, as well as the provisional IRA and all kinds of other fine folks here and there, over the years....not to mention blowing up civil airliners full of people who probably did not know the crazy bastard even existed.

Then we have the African Union peace delegation which came to help out....
4 dictators who came to power by means of coup d' etats, and one who was actually elected. They did not bother to talk to the "rebels"....just had tea and crumpets with the Colonel. and called for a "ceasefire" Really objective group...considering the Colonel bankrolls the whole fucking lot of them......what a farce. The may as well have sent a Baboon troop. People on here actually support these lunatics....and condemn the "west"....

Yeah - did they rape and kill any nuns along the way you dickhead? How quickly you forget/ignore your Reagan CIA footprint in Central/South America. Oh but Reagn the bumbling idiot was great wasn't he? Funny how Americans praise a complete moron.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Yeah - did they rape and kill any nuns along the way you dickhead? How quickly you forget/ignore your Reagan CIA footprint in Central/South America. Oh but Reagn the bumbling idiot was great wasn't he? Funny how Americans praise a complete moron.

that is one of the things about 20th century america that represents the rise in crazy polarity
the moral majority & trickle down economics

proof that IQ test should be required to vote