The Libyan Crisis

**Cujo** · 30-03-2011, 09:48 AM

Government forces were also evicting thousands of residents and looting their homes, according to the source with the Libyan opposition. Rebels were using schools and mosques to accommodate the evicted, he said.

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

**Butterfly** · 30-03-2011, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Koojo

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

blame America, they started it

Freedom always come at the cost of cahos, and there is no guarantee it will succeed

**Cujo** · 30-03-2011, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Koojo

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

blame America, they started it

No they didn't you dipstick.

**Sabai Prai** · 30-03-2011, 02:38 PM

French Mirage 2000 fighter jet has brought down a Libyan fighter jet.

That must have been one powerful distress flare.

**StrontiumDog** · 30-03-2011, 04:32 PM

AFP: Middle East: Live report

Middle East: Live report

(AFP) – 55 minutes ago

0909 GMT: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says Moscow believes foreign powers have no right to arm Libyan rebels under the mandate approved by the UN Security Council.

"Recently, the French foreign minister said France was prepared to discuss with its coalition partners the supply of arms for the Libyan opposition," Lavrov told reporters in reference to Tuesday's London conference on the crisis.

"Immediately thereafter, the NATO Secretary General Fogh Rasmussen declared that the operation in Libya was being staged to protect the population and not to arm it -- and here, we completely agree with the NATO Secretary General."

0901 GMT: More on Ras Lanuf: "We are facing a big problem. We are pulling back," one fighter, Salama Dadida, told AFP as hundreds of cars and pickup trucks sped from Uqayla towards Brega, 240 kilometres (150 miles) south of the rebel stronghold Benghazi.

"Kadhafi's troops are firing rockets and tank shells," he said.

"We want the French to bomb the (Kadhafi) soldiers," said another fighter, Ali Atia al-Faturi, as the sound of shelling and gunfire grew louder.

0859 GMT: Rebels have fled under heavy tank and artillery fire from Ras Lanuf in eastern Libya on Wednesday after Moamer Kadhafi's troops overran the strategic oil refinery town, AFP reporters say.

Rebel fighters retreating in their hundreds from the front lines through Uqayla, about 20 kilometres (12 miles) east of Ras Lanuf, called for coalition air strikes on Kadhafi's forces.

0852 GMT: In Syria, President Bashar al-Assad is to deliver a speech today in which he may lift emergency rule, one of the main demands of two weeks of unprecedented protests that have left dozens dead.

"The president will deliver a major speech to the Syrian people, linked to domestic issues and recent developments in Syria," the official SANA news agency reported.

0848 GMT: Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is set to visit Lampedusa today, as boats arrive to evacuate 6,000 mainly Tunisian migrants off the overcrowded island to mainland Italy.

Berlusconi is expected to announce compensation measures for the local inhabitants of the island where the main industry is tourism.

With only three chemical lavatories and little access to water for washing, aid organisations and charities have denounced the government for poor management of the crisis.

0846 GMT: Arming Libyan rebels would be an "extreme" measure likely to divide the international community, Italian foreign ministry spokesman Maurizio Massari has warned.

"Arming the rebels would be a controversial measure, an extreme measure that could certainly divide the international community," Massari said in a radio interview with Radioanch'io.

0844 GMT: Forces loyal to Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi have recaptured the eastern oil town of Ras Lanuf, forcing rebels to flee to the east, an AFP correspondent reported.

0837 GMT: KADHAFI FORCES OVERRUN EAST LIBYA OIL TOWN RAS LANUF: AFP

0830 GMT: Follow this AFP live report for news of developments as they happen in Libya, the Middle East and North Africa.

Moamer Kadhafi's forces are today pushing rebels further back in east Libya after routing them outside the key city of Sirte as world powers mull arming the rag-tag band of fighters.

AFP correspondents say Kadhafi's troops are closing in on the oil refinery town of Ras Lanuf, 370 kilometres (230 miles) west of the rebel stronghold city of Benghazi, and pounding it with artillery fire.

**StrontiumDog** · 30-03-2011, 04:35 PM

This is ebbing and flowing...the anti-Gaddafi forces seemed to have the upper-hand...now they are being pushed back considerably.

What will the coalition do next?

**Cujo** · 30-03-2011, 04:39 PM

It'll be a bloodbath and egg on face all round if Gadhaffi wins this thing.

**Panda** · 30-03-2011, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

This is ebbing and flowing...the anti-Gaddafi forces seemed to have the upper-hand...now they are being pushed back considerably.

What will the coalition do next?

Bit of a worry for the west there since they have already publicly picked a side.
Normally, they just go for the side that looks most likely to win provided its western friendly. In Libyas case the west has burnt their bridges with their former friend Gaddafi now. So its the rebels who have to win to serve the wests interests. Unlike Bahrain where its in the wests interests to allow the friendly dictator to slaughter his own people.
Obama has already said that supplying arms to the Libyan rebels is under consideration.

There are too many dollars at stake re the price of oil to the west to allow this conflict to develop into a protracted stalemate or even worse, -- a Gaddafi win.
In for a penny, in for a pound. Only one way this is all going to end. Only problem is UN resolution 1973 detailing the terms of engagement. However that has never stopped USA from using covert means to secure their objectives before.

**Butterfly** · 30-03-2011, 06:10 PM

it's going to be a civil war for sure, but I guess the idea was to disrupt oil so a few of Sarko and Obama buddies could make back some money after oil dropped from 180 to 40

**Panda** · 30-03-2011, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's going to be a civil war for sure, but I guess the idea was to disrupt oil so a few of Sarko and Obama buddies could make back some money after oil dropped from 180 to 40

They are making bucket loads of money on it for anything over $40 a barrel. Which is about the average world price of production plus profit if speculation is taken out of the equation. But problem for Obama is that he faces an inconvenient problem called democracy. And the US voters dont like paying (relatitively) high fuel prices. The Yanks seem to think $4.00 a gallon is over the top while the rest of the world is paying roughly double that. But of course they neither know nor care.

**Rural Surin** · 30-03-2011, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Koojo

Government forces were also evicting thousands of residents and looting their homes, according to the source with the Libyan opposition. Rebels were using schools and mosques to accommodate the evicted, he said.

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

Sad, the reality is, that no one gives a rat's arse about "the children". Not the rebellious uprisers, nor Ghaddafi's goons, and certainly not the corporate-minded invaders. Historically, war finds children to be collateral baggage.

**Rural Surin** · 30-03-2011, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

However that has never stopped USA from using covert means to secure their objectives before.

Expect this strategy, certainly now that the the U.S. President has given the blessing and green light.

**Sabai Prai** · 30-03-2011, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's going to be a civil war for sure

What do you mean? It already is a civil war.

**Panda** · 30-03-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sabai Prai

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's going to be a civil war for sure

What do you mean? It already is a civil war.

I thought it was a battle between the people and an evil dictatorial murdering government. Sort of a battle between good and evil. Is that the same as a civil war? But then again I have been watching BBC. :-)

**OhOh** · 30-03-2011, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Koojo

Government forces were also evicting thousands of residents and looting their homes, according to the source with the Libyan opposition. Rebels were using schools and mosques to accommodate the evicted, he said.

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

Sad, the reality is, that no one gives a rat's arse about "the children". Not the rebellious uprisers, nor Ghaddafi's goons, and certainly not the corporate-minded invaders. Historically, war finds children to be collateral baggage.

An example of "Children" in Libya.

Begs the reason why the "Parents" or babysitter took them out to a war zone armed. Are these some of the casualties turning up in the Libyan Government well appointed hospitals

**OhOh** · 30-03-2011, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

I thought it was a battle between the "unarmed civilians" and an evil dictatorial murdering government. Sort of a battle between good and evil. Is that the same as a civil war? But then again I have been watching BBC. :-)

I have edited your reply to make it more PC

**Butterfly** · 30-03-2011, 07:46 PM

it's will be a full civil war once Gadaffi is gone and the allies are no longer flying over the no fly zone, the others are patiently waiting for their turn

another humanitarian catastrophe brought to you by America and the European

**Mr Gribbs** · 30-03-2011, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's going to be a civil war for sure, but I guess the idea was to disrupt oil so a few of Sarko and Obama buddies could make back some money after oil dropped from 180 to 40

They are making bucket loads of money on it for anything over $40 a barrel. Which is about the average world price of production plus profit if speculation is taken out of the equation. But problem for Obama is that he faces an inconvenient problem called democracy. And the US voters dont like paying (relatitively) high fuel prices. The Yanks seem to think $4.00 a gallon is over the top while the rest of the world is paying roughly double that. But of course they neither know nor care.

You are wrong, there are plenty of places where the price of gasoline is much cheaper then the US.

**Mr Gribbs** · 30-03-2011, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Koojo

What a terrifying time it must be for the children of Libya.
All they want to do is play football and listen to stories.
How terrifying to have this inflicted on their innocent lives.

blame America, they started it

Freedom always come at the cost of cahos, and there is no guarantee it will succeed

You're wrong, France and the UK were the ones who started it, because the rebels said if they win, they wont sell oil to those who didn't help them. The French were the first people to officially recognize the rebels, and have been pushing to do more for them, like put soldiers on the ground.

**Mr Gribbs** · 30-03-2011, 08:31 PM

All the film and pictures I see of the rebels they seem to be indiscriminately firing in the air, or at God knows what. To think they, a group of people with no military training aren't killing their fair share of civilians is absurd. Funny how the Western press doesn't mention this. I hope Gadhafi's troops keep kicking the shit out of the rebels, so Western troops have to be deployed on the ground, then they get the shit kicked out of them.

**Sabai Prai** · 30-03-2011, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

the rebels said if they win, they wont sell oil to those who didn't help them.

Where did you get that information from?

**Mr Gribbs** · 30-03-2011, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sabai Prai

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

the rebels said if they win, they wont sell oil to those who didn't help them.

Where did you get that information from?

It was in an article when the conflict just started.

**Rural Surin** · 30-03-2011, 08:52 PM

Looking down the road with the prospective of The West determining which direction that Libya should go politically - remember, it wasn't that long ago that "Libya" was a region of tribal factions, where it still basically stands today. A truer regime change might come quite difficult to the future imperialist masters.

**Norton** · 30-03-2011, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

will be a full civil war once Gadaffi is gone

All stems back to 1950s when the UN powers that be decided it was a grand idea to add Chapter VII articles to the UN charter which allows UN to impose sanctions on the "bad guys" and if that doesn't work intervene militarily. Once enacted it was conveniently available to immediately justify military action in Korea. Since then it has been used to justify and legalize all sorts of military actions throughout the world. Of course the "bad guys" tend to be those who do not comply with the interests of the UN powers that be. Sometimes the bad guys are not defeated as was the case in Korea. An armistice is called for and things kinda settle down for 50 or 60 years.

So the latest UN adventure is in Libya and the bad guy of the week is Qaddafi and his cronies. We all know he's the bad guy because the media tells us so. Everyday, 24 hours a day.

Qaddafi is definitely a bad guy but to say he has no supporters as the media would have us believe is ludicrous. The reason the "opposition" is now on the run is simply because they have reached tribal areas loyal to the regime and the further west they go the more resistance they will get.

It is indeed a civil war or more precisely a tribal war. All the pundits are blathering on about how this will all play out. Haven't heard one say maybe Qaddafi will not be defeated and after a period of time the UN mandated forces will tire of the effort and expense, call for an armistice, draw a line in the sand down the middle of Libya and tell both the opposition and Qaddafi to be good boys and not to step across or else.

Just a thought. Probably as likely as other scenarios which bring democracy, peace, freedom and human rights to Libya in a few months.

**Muadib** · 30-03-2011, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

The US, UK and France have led the call for the excessive use of force. The pro US posters have taken the view that is only the US who are ebing demonised, that is typical of the US attitude of ""poor old me".

Would you have preferred to allow Gadhaffi's troops roll into Bengazi and slaughter his own people?

It's not the "Poor Old Me" scenario that pisses me off, it's the wannabes on the sidelines who don't want to get their hands dirty while all the time throwing stones at the one country that cares enough about human life to actually stand up and do something in Libya... And don't pull out the old "Oil" card as the US gets fuck-all oil from Libya, although on the other hand the Brits make a deal with the devil himself to release the Lockerbie bomber in exchange for the free-flow of the black gold... Fucking hypocrites...

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