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He was good enough for the UK and the US to "bend their knees to" a few weeks ago. He doesn't wear the regulation dark suit, he doesn't stay at the Ritz, to show what a rich man he is. He takes his "Arabic" tent,a fancy one at that, with him. He is not ashamed of his roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by crippen
Of course now he is ridiculed for his appearance, mannerisms and voice; very intelligent, very statesmanlike.
You have this habit of coming out with totally absurd, sweeping statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Lost war? We have no troops on the ground there, besides spotters.
We have taken sides, in favor of the rebels- no need to beat about the bush there.
The Qadaffi regime has already to some extent crumbled- large sections of the military have defected, and several close aides. There are strong signs it is cracking at the seams.
On the ground, the advance was stopped- the last few days has been a bit of a seesaw. The military amateurism shown by the rebels is a bit of a concern though.
If you want to call this a war, fine- but unless I am missing something, at this point it is a war with few casualties then.
The nature of your 'statement' means that if any deal/ compromise is arrived at, you will have scrambled egg all over your face.
I'm of the opinion there will be, but at the end of the day when it comes to the real substance of what negotiations may be happening behind closed doors, we are all in the dark.
BBC News - Libya: Government dismisses 'mad' rebel ceasefire offer
2 April 2011 Last updated at 05:27 GMT
Libya: Government dismisses 'mad' rebel ceasefire offer
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Libyan government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said the rebels' demands were "impossible" (video at the link)
Libya's government has dismissed as "mad" the conditional ceasefire offer made by the rebel administration.
Spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said troops loyal to Col Muammar Gaddafi would never withdraw from the rebel-held cities they were besieging.
He also condemned recent coalition air strikes as "a crime against humanity" and said there had been civilian casualties in one attack on Thursday.
Nato is investigating a report that seven civilians were killed near Brega.
The account, from a doctor in Adjabiya, could not be independently verified.
'Crime against humanity'
On Friday, the head of the rebel Transitional National Council, Abdul Jalil Ibrahim, discussed how a truce might come about after meeting UN special envoy Abdelilah al-Khatib in the eastern city of Benghazi.
"We have no objection to a ceasefire but on condition that Libyans in western cities have full freedom in expressing their views and also that the forces that are besieging the cities withdraw," he told reporters.
"Our main demand is the departure of Muammar Gaddafi and his sons from Libya. This is a demand we will not go back on."
Mr Abdul Jalil, who quit as justice minister in protest at the use of violence against demonstrators, also said he believed the coalition should begin arming the rebels despite the UN arms embargo on Libya.
"We think that if the international community wants to protect civilians according to the international resolutions, they should take the appropriate measures, which include giving the go ahead to arm the rebels," he added.
Moussa Ibrahim dismissed the offer of conditional ceasefire, describing the rebels as "tribal, violent, with no unified leadership, al-Qaeda links."
"The rebels never offered peace. They don't offer peace. They are making impossible demands."
"If this is not mad, I don't know what is," he added. "We will not leave our cities. We are the government, not them."
Mr Ibrahim also said six civilians had been killed by an "immoral" air strike in the eastern village of Zawia el Argobe, 15km (9 miles) from Brega.
"Some mad and criminal prime ministers and presidents of Europe are leading a crusade against an Arab Muslim nation," he told reporters in Tripoli. "Sounds familiar? It's a crime against humanity."
Shrapnel
A doctor in the town of Ajdabiya, Suleiman Refardi, told the BBC that the coalition air strike had targeted a government convoy that included tanks, artillery and lorries carrying ammunition.
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Dr Suleiman Refardi said a missile hit a truck carrying ammunition, sending out shrapnel (video at the link)
A direct hit on an ammunition truck and trailer in a street in Zawia el Argobe sent a hail of shrapnel into nearby houses, he said.
Four of the dead were female, including three children from the same family, aged between 12 and 16. Three boys, aged between 14 and 20, were also killed.
Dr Refardi said he had spoken to the family of the girls who had been killed and "there was no anger" at the coalition forces.
"If these tanks had entered Ajdabiya it would have been a massacre," he said. "They [the Libyan people] are expecting more than this, because they know the Gaddafi forces are using civilians as a shield."
Nato officials told the BBC they were making inquiries "down our operations chain to find out if indeed there is any information on the operation side that would support this claim".
Meanwhile, the BBC's Wyre Davies in Ajdabiya says rebel forces there are pressing on to the front line around Brega.
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Despite recent setbacks, rebel forces are gathering at the front line around Brega
Plenty of enthusiastic, if disorganised, insurgents are driving through in pick-up trucks with heavy-duty machine-guns mounted on the back, he reports.
In another development, the former interior minister, Gen Abdul Fatah Younis, who defected to join the opposition, visited rebels on the frontline, where he was greeted like a hero, the BBC's Nick Springate reports.
In the only rebel-held city in western Libya, Misrata, forces loyal to Col Gaddafi continued bombard rebel fighters and civilians using tanks and artillery, a doctor in the city told the BBC. The main clinic was targeted, he said.
"I've treated two people from the same family who were hit with a mortar - one girl whose chest was open and one lung was completely destroyed," he added. "Her sister had her right arm amputated."
Another doctor said at least 140 people had died in Misrata since 18 March.
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Libyan rebels claim victory in Brega - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Libyan rebels claim victory in Brega
Updated 1 hour 18 minutes ago
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Brega has been the scene of intense fighting. (AFP: Aris Messinis)
Fighting raged on the front line between rebel-held eastern Libya and the loyalist-held west as rebels claimed to have captured the strategic oil town of Brega.
Although there was no immediate confirmation of the claim, a correspondent at the scene witnessed seven bodies of pro-Gaddafi fighters and at least 10 burnt-out pick-up trucks along the road between Ajbadiya and Brega, 80 kilometres to the west.
Fighting appeared to have subsided on Saturday morning on the outskirts of the town and only the sound of NATO fighters flying overhead disturbed the calm.
Brega, 800 kilometres east of Tripoli, has been the scene of intense exchanges over the past few days when pro-Gaddafi forces returned after being driven out by the rebels.
But it has been unclear since Thursday who actually held the town with the rebel forces regrouping in Ajdabiya, 80 kilometres to the east.
Overnight, fighting flared around the rebel-held city of Misrata and air strikes were reported elsewhere in the country after Gaddafi's regime rejected a rebel offer of a ceasefire.
And at the United Nations, the thorny issue of Western governments arming the rebels set alarm bells ringing.
The US military was poised to withdraw its combat jets and Tomahawk cruise missiles from the air campaign this weekend, as NATO allies take the lead in bombing Gaddafi's forces.
The move follows pledges by president Barack Obama to quickly shift command of the operation to NATO, with the US military playing a supporting role - providing planes for mid-air refuelling, jamming and surveillance.
Coalition forces, meanwhile, strafed positions held by loyalist forces in the Al Khums and Al Rojban regions east and south-west of the capital Tripoli late on Friday, according to Libyan state television.
An Al Khums resident said he heard explosions coming from a local naval base, about 120 kilometres east of the capital, which had been bombed by coalition forces earlier.
Forces loyal to Gaddafi also attacked the third city of Misrata with tanks and rocket fire, a rebel spokesman said.
In the rebel bastion of Benghazi, Transitional National Council leader Mustafa Abdul Jalil said the opposition was ready for a truce, provided Gaddafi's forces end their assaults on rebel-held cities.
But government spokesman Mussa Ibrahim rejected the offer, saying Gaddafi's forces would not withdraw from towns they control.
"The rebels never offered peace. They don't offer peace, they are making impossible demands," Mr Ibrahim told reporters, calling the truce offer a "trick".
"We will not leave our cities. We are the government, not them," he said, adding however that the government was always ready to negotiate and wanted peace.
Abdul Jalil's offer came two days after rebels were driven out of a string of key oil terminals in eastern Libya they had twice seized during the weeks-old revolt aimed at toppling Gaddafi's four-decade-old regime.
"We agree on a ceasefire on the condition that our brothers in the western cities have freedom of expression and that the forces besieging the cities withdraw," he told reporters after meeting UN special envoy Abdul Ilah Khatib.
He added, however, that the revolution still aimed to topple the regime.
Mr Khatib said he had met top officials of Mr Gaddafi's government in Tripoli on Thursday to call for a ceasefire, lifting the siege of the western cities and access for humanitarian aid.
He called for a "real ceasefire" that must be "credible, effective and verifiable".
Dispute over arming rebels
The nations staging air strikes on Gaddafi's forces will be heading into a diplomatic minefield if they arm Libyan rebels as well, envoys to the United Nations said.
With international law specialists warning that any supplies would breach the UN Security Council arms embargo that the United States, Britain and France all voted for, diplomats say a council showdown would certainly follow if evidence emerges of deliveries.
US secretary of state Hillary Clinton and British prime minister David Cameron have both said they believe UN resolutions on Libya allow arming the rebels.
"Many countries would certainly strongly oppose any attempt to interpret the current resolutions as permitting arms supplies," one senior diplomat on the 15-nation council responded, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The Western allies stress that no decision has been taken to arm the rebels, but experts on both sides of the divide are frantically scanning past UN resolutions and international law books.
Resolution 1970 passed on February 26 ordered the Libya arms embargo. Resolution 1973 voted by 10 nations, with five abstaining, on March 17 called on all nations to cooperate to ensure "strict implementation" of the prohibition.
Britain and America are arguing, however, that part of Resolution 1973, which allows member states "to take all necessary measures ... to protect civilians" gives the wiggle room for military assistance to the rebels.
"It is our interpretation that 1973 amended or overrode the absolute prohibition of arms to anyone in Libya so that there could be legitimate transfer of arms if a country were to choose to do that," the US secretary of state said this week.
In the face of the disagreements, no country is openly calling for arms for anti-Gaddafi fighters and NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on Thursday he opposed such a move.
"I'm not ruling it out. But I'm also not ruling it in. We're still making an assessment," US president Barack Obama said on Tuesday. Mr Cameron gave a similar comment.
France is "prepared to discuss this with our partners," French foreign minister Alain Juppe said at a London conference on Libya this week. But he and defence minister Gerard Longuet have said such assistance is not compatible with Resolution 1973.
- AFP
I will start with your first quote, yet you claim the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Are the "spotters" in balloons or are their feet "on the ground". I presume a spotter is a phrase indication a soldiers role in a war.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Reports of 25%-30% destroyed, how much is required required for the cracks to become a flood?Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
The government forces have obviously learnt that, the now NATO, forces will attack them but not the "unarmed civilian" forcesQuote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Who is there to take pictures, who would be believed, who in reality really cares.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Lastly I think he has a reputation for "egg on his face" alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by sabang
you really need to stop the Lao Kaho, sab, it's not doing you any good in that hard Issaan sun. Try the aircon once in a while, it will do you a lot of good for you and your brain :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
what are you calling this then ? a garden party ?Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
you really like to twist reality don't you ? the eggs on the face is already there for the allies. Maybe you didn't notice the protests in London street, and the huge unpopular support of the war across Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
no, you are. For the rest of us, it's all clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Are you suffering from late stage AIDS dementia, or are you an ultra-sensitive French gal who can't handle the truth? This war was started from Elysee Palace, by the French President, who happened to be elected by the French People. The fact there has been hardly any protest, especially any of note against this war in France, tells me the French support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
A fraction of the UK population protested against the war in Iraq, 5 million (it wasn't 5 million either) is a drop in the bucket out of a population of 70 million. An even smaller fraction protested against the war in Libya, hardly any at all. The UK people made billions of the Iraq war, and have made billions off that "civilian killing lunatic" Gadhafi.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOhThe UK population has learnt that peaceful protest, 5m plus protesters against the Iraq war, was completely ignored. Government enquiries regarding the reason and action during the war have been complete whitewashes. When the "people" protest now in the UK the police forces "kettle" people to stop them going away or continuing with their protest marches. Anyone who disagrees with these police tactics are beaten with batons, some killed through beatings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr GribbsSorry, not going to take your word the UK population is against this war. I haven't seen any type of protest like there was when the Iraq war was in its infancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
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"Kettling" for those unfamiliar with the term involves the following. The organisers of the protest marches apply for permission to hold a protest march from the authorities. The marches, if approved, are allowed to congregate at a particular place and then march along an agreed route. If the march is determined, by the authorities, to be becoming "out of control", the authorities, generally the police but on occasions the army has been involved, break up the flow of the marchers by stopping a portion.
This cuts the original single, long line of marching people, into manageable sections. These sections are then corralled (kettled), sometimes by riot police in full headgear, shields and batons, sometimes by the introduction of metal barriers, and held. The duration of the marchers being held is at the discretion of the police. Nobody is allowed to leave the confines of the kettle. Anyone trying to leave is physically pushed back into the crowd of marchers. This of course leads to distress amongst the kettled marchers.
At the last election the People voted against the previous government who had become tainted with the ongoing wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the financial mismanagement of the UK economy. The result was a hung parliament, no overall winning party.
The UK constitution allows in, instances such as this, for the leader of the party winning the most votes to establish through inviting another party to join them in a "coalition". This was done and a government was formed.
Since the creation of the present government they have reneged on most of the issues that they campaigned on, the financial situation has deteriorated, people are losing their jobs, their houses and their ability to survive.
The "people" are also drugged by the media, both government and private tv/radio stations, regarding the situation in Libya. The "intelligent" voice as portrayed in the "quality" newspaper blogs is around 75% - 90% against the situation and against the handling of the war by the government.
My advice to you, if you want to learn what the "people" are saying, is to look not at the editorials or content of the newspapers but the live blogs hosted by all the national newspapers and read the posts. You will find a different view being expressed than that by the government or establishment. the blogs are moderated somewhat but most views are allowed.
A majority of the UK population opposed the invasion of Iraq, as in Australia. As always, the number of that 'silent majority' that felt impelled to demonstrate is fractional. No different to protest movements anywhere, including the red shirts. I don't believe that a mjority of the UK population opposes the Nato actiona in Libya at all- I think a representative poll would indicate the opposite. I would however like to see just such a Poll conducted.
I just thought this was something that was widely understood, perhaps i should have been more specific. By the generic term spotters, I am referring to undercover agents/ informants or special forces (mostly). They are not there to fire guns- they are there to provide intelligence, and locate and identify targets. In any theatre of combat, they are always there. In the lead up to combat, they are almost always there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
^ Just me being facetious.
Trouble is none of us know whats going on over there.
Butterfly does. He knows what is going on. What the outcome will be. Even knows what NATO is having for breakfast. Eggs ala face.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
Why does he possess such insight you may ask? Simple answer. He is in direct communication with omnipotent alien beings.
Some of which post on TD quite frequently........:smileylaughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
Closer to 55 million, but when one postulates as wildly as you, I guess it can be overlooked as just a final small squirt in a toilet full of runny shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs
fixed that for you guys :)Quote:
Originally Posted by komanSome of which post on TD quite frequently........:smileylaughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
it's really not hard to imagine what's going on, it's always the same MO, we have seen it dozen of times already. And then we had Iraq, and all our fears there have proved to be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
Anyone who follow international politics and can put 2+2 together can easily "project" the outcome of such a conflict.
It's not Rocket Science, and to follow blindly NATO accounts of what is happening is beyond naive.
it sounds like something that you would enjoy :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Norton
good call, I should revive my Ancient Alien theory threads with an update, there has been some interesting development :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
Government Forces Shelled Town Of Yafran Near Libya's Capital Killing Two People And Wounding Four | World News | Sky News
Two Die As Gaddafi Forces Shell Libyan Town
Government forces have shelled a town southwest of Libya's capital, killing two people, according to an eyewitness.
A resident, known only as Ezref, told Arabiya television: "We are facing fierce attacks from the north since yesterday in the city of Yafran."
"Two people have died a short while ago and so far we have four wounded.
"Residential areas have been shelled with Grad rockets."
Yafran is in the mountainous region about 62 miles (100km) southwest of the capital Tripoli.
In the northwest, Libya's third largest city Misrata remains under attack.
At least one person was killed and several more wounded after forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi shelled a building early today.
The building had been used to treat the wounded from the conflict but patients and medical staff were moved to another location only days earlier.
A doctor in the town said the building had been hit with two mortar shells.
"We have one killed, three in the operating room now, one with an amputated leg, we have one in ICU (intensive care) because of shell fragments in his chest and we have six wounded with different wounds and they are waiting for an operation," he said.
After weeks of shelling and encirclement, government forces appear to be gradually loosening the rebels' hold there, despite Western air strikes on pro-Gaddafi targets.
The rebels say they still control the city centre and the sea port, but Gaddafi's forces have pushed into the centre along the main thoroughfare.
There have been reports some 160 people, most of them civilians, have been killed in the fighting there in the past seven days.
Heavy fighting between Libyan rebels and Col Gaddafi loyalists has also reignited on the outskirts of the eastern oil town of Brega.
apparently the allies have been bombing their rebel friends,
so typically American,
Hundreds killed in besieged Libyan city - doctor
Sunday April 3, 2011
Hundreds killed in besieged Libyan city - doctor
TUNIS (Reuters) - About 160 people have been killed in the besieged city of Misrata over the past week in fighting between rebels and Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces, a doctor said on Saturday.
Misrata is the last big rebel stronghold in western Libya but after weeks of shelling and encirclement, government forces appear to be gradually loosening the rebels' hold on the city, despite Western air strikes on pro-Gaddafi targets there.
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A protester waves a Kingdom of Libya flag during Friday prayers in Benghazi April 1, 2011. (REUTERS/Esam al-Fetori)
"160 people, mostly civilians, were killed in fighting in Misrata over the last seven days," a doctor who gave his name as Ramadan told Reuters by phone from the city, after consulting other medics at Misrata's hospital.
Ramadan had no figure for the total deathtoll since fighting began six weeks ago. "But every week between 100 and 140 people are reported killed -- multiply this by six and our estimates are 600 to 1000 deaths since the fighting started," he said.
Ramadan, a Libyan usually based in Britain, said he arrived in Misrata three days ago on a humanitarian mission. Three people were killed in sporadic fighting on Saturday after heavy fighting on Friday, he said.
Accounts from Misrata, Libya's third biggest city about 200 km (120 miles) east of Tripoli, could not be independently verified because Libyan authorities have not allowed journalists to travel to the city and report from it freely.
Misrata, like many cities across Libya, rejected Gaddafi's rule in a revolt in February. In a violent crackdown, his forces restored control in most places in western Libya, leaving Misrata cut off and surrounded.
Rebels say they still control the centre and port, but Gaddafi's forces have pushed into the centre.
Ramadan said more than half of those he treated were victims of shelling attacks. "The hospital is very small and has very limited capacities ... Over the last 30 hours I treated seven people, four suffered heart seizure. Most suffered deep wounds from shrapnel. It is a true war against civilians," he said.
Medical supplies were running short. "Bearing in mind that the hospital was not able to cope with the medical needs of the population before the war broke out -- just imagine what the situation is like now," Ramadan said. "We don't have a heart or lung surgeon and we need those urgently."
Ramadan said a Turkish ship carrying medical aid arrived in Misrata on Saturday. "The ship can provide some urgent medical assistance but serious operations cannot be performed. It is not a floating hospital; we need a floating hospital."
Western warplanes have attacked an air base south of Misrata where pro-Gaddafi forces have their main base, and residents said at least one warship belonging to the international anti-Gaddafi coalition was at anchor off the coast. But locals have expressed frustration with coalition air strikes, saying they have done little to help the situation on the ground.
One resident, Abdelsalam who said his brother was a rebel, said explosions had been heard out at sea on Friday. He added aircraft could be heard over the city on Saturday.
"People here are scared and they want the international community to intervene," he said. "We want NATO to send ground troops to save us from this nightmare."
BBC News - Libya: Fighting resumes in key cities
3 April 2011 Last updated at 10:17 GMT
Libya: Fighting resumes in key cities
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Rebels are fighting for control of the oil city of Brega
Fighting has resumed in Libya with rebel forces continuing to battle for control of the eastern oil town of Brega.
Rebels have captured the university on the outskirts of the city, AFP says.
Overnight, shelling resumed in Misrata, Libya's third biggest city and the last big rebel stronghold in the west, which has been besieged for weeks.
At least 13 people were killed when a coalition plane fired on a rebel convoy between Brega and Ajdabiya on Friday.
The rebels' leadership has acknowledged that firing in the air through lack of discipline could have provoked the Nato air strike on their own forces on Friday.
The opposition leadership says it is trying to bring a new professionalism to its military campaign.
Road blocks have been set up close to the frontline and only soldiers with at least some training are allowed through.
Stalemate
Brega - some 800km (500 miles) east of the capital, Tripoli - has been the scene of intense exchanges over the past few days since pro-Gaddafi forces returned after being driven out.
The rebels had claimed to have recaptured the key oil town on Saturday, but pro-Gaddafi snipers were still said to be active, and others were apparently holed up in the university, AFP reports.
Early on Sunday morning, the rebels pushed forward and were occupying the university's vast campus on the outskirts of Brega, according to an AFP journalist.
At least one person was killed and several wounded early on Sunday when forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi shelled a building in Misrata, a resident has told Reuters news agency.
There have also been reports that Gaddafi forces have shelled the town of Yafran in a mountainous region south-west of Libya's capital, Tripoli, pan-Arab satellite channel al-Arabiya has reported, quoting an eyewitness.
Six-and-a-half weeks after the uprising began, it is hard to see how either side can break out of the military and political deadlock into which this conflict has descended, says the BBC's Jon Leyne in the rebel-controlled city of Benghazi.
Neither side has the power to force an outright military victory, but neither is weak enough to force them into serious peace negotiations either, our correspondent adds.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa has called for a swift end to the conflict in Libya even if it means offering Col Gaddafi safe haven in another country.
Speaking to the BBC, Archbishop Tutu, who retired from public life last year, said in an ideal world the Libyan leader should stand trial, but that in reality it was better "to let him have a soft landing and save the lives as many people as you possibly can".
Rebel reorganisation
The rebels are determined to strengthen their forces and defeat Col Gaddafi, a spokeswoman for the transitional national council, Iman Bugaighis, has told the BBC World Service.
"We have reorganised our troops, our army forces. Now the army is in the front and then followed by our volunteers who are fighting with the army," she told the Weekend World Today programme.
"We know and we admit that it's unequal forces of course, and we are, after all, civilians and volunteers, most of us; and it was planned, intentionally, from the beginning not to have [a] structured army.
"Of course we are determined, this is the end of it, that this land cannot bear both of us. We will do whatever it takes to liberate our country."
An uprising against Col Gaddafi's rule in February has developed into an armed conflict pitting rebels against government forces and drawing in a Nato-led coalition with a UN mandate to protect civilians.
At least several thousand people have been killed and many more have been injured as the two sides battle for control over territory.
The country's vital coastal cities are now roughly split between pro-Gaddafi forces controlling Tripoli and the west, and rebels controlling Benghazi in the east.
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Cheeky bastards. If ground troops did assist, it wouldn't be long before the rebels turned on the NATO ground troops. As per Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Did the "doctor", good upstanding citizen with no political motives, state how many were killed by the Libyan Government forces and how many were killed by the "unarmed civilians"?Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Did the "reporter" based in Chicago ask ?
They have passenger flights Heathrow to Misrata, NATO I mean. He has time, away from helping the wounded, to hold political news conferences?Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Looking at the phots/videos of the hospitals they look pretty good to me, not only for an African country but by western standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
It will get bombed by NATO as it will be used by the Government forces wounded and as such be helping Gadaffi, or will it discriminate?Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Who are the we? No poltical views there then:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
"she Told the media, good to see the ladies on TV, helps to sell the message.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
She admits that the "unarmed civilians" are in fact our troops, our army forcesQuote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Then she backtracksQuote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
She threatens all out war once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
But she remind us that they are in fact "civilians"Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Of the cities identified on the map, 10, three are shown as "unarmed civilian" held, one is reported to be being fought over. 66% to the Libyan Government 33% to the "unarmed civilians"Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
NATO is, and has always been, attacking the Libyan forces and assisting the "insurgents"
You don't even need to follow blindly, just have the ability to read and pick their "reports"/propaganda to pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
I might remind you, Mr. Gibbs, though even this new little corporate imperial adventure is looked upon as an concerted French/British/NATO effort, we all know that the Americans initiated hostilities and are really calling the shots. In these contemporary times, one should surely know that foreign military activity worldwide required permission from Uncle Sugar foremost - regardless of the disguised premise of an "allied" coalition. This is obviously the case in Libya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs