The Libyan Crisis

The rumors and speculation about an Al Queda element in the Libyan rebel force is very disturbing. There is also speculation that there are Hezbollah there as well as ex Mujahadeen, Fedayeen, and some long retired members of Black September......
Even worse, some of them are reported to be ex used car salesmen, or even divorce lawyers.

The other 98%+ thankfully are regular Libyan guys who just want to get rid of their long standing dictator. When you are trying to kick your dictator out, you really don't care who helps; as long as you get the son of a bitch out.

There is at least one kiddy fiddler amongst them too. And a convicted rapist. :mid:
Quick, lets all panic and give a few more billion dollars of arnaments to poor Israel.
People are so gullible. Just tweak the same old strings and they're eating out of your hand.

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Originally Posted by koman

The rumors and speculation about an Al Queda element in the Libyan rebel force is very disturbing. There is also speculation that there are Hezbollah there as well as ex Mujahadeen, Fedayeen, and some long retired members of Black September......
Even worse, some of them are reported to be ex used car salesmen, or even divorce lawyers.

The other 98%+ thankfully are regular Libyan guys who just want to get rid of their long standing dictator. When you are trying to kick your dictator out, you really don't care who helps; as long as you get the son of a bitch out.

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Regular Libyan guys. Might be a better chance that even the deepest intelligence guess is grasping at straws - I don't really think anyone has a clue as to the broad make-up of the Libyan "opposition". Good guys or bad guys....does it matter to the imperial corporatists?

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Originally Posted by sabang

There is at least one kiddy fiddler amongst them too. And a convicted rapist.
Quick, lets all panic and give a few more billion dollars of arnaments to poor Israel.
People are so gullible. Just tweak the same old strings and they're eating out of your hand.

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you seem to be quite the apologist for the allies, interestingly, even though it's clear they are abusing and trying to fool the public with their non-sense

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by sabang

There is at least one kiddy fiddler amongst them too. And a convicted rapist.
Quick, lets all panic and give a few more billion dollars of arnaments to poor Israel.
People are so gullible. Just tweak the same old strings and they're eating out of your hand.

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you seem to be quite the apologist for the allies, interestingly, even though it's clear they are abusing and trying to fool the public with their non-sense

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Sounds as if you've been hoodwinked as well.....associating the term allies as a positive thrust upon the Western Invaders, which they aren't of course. Nothing but a negative evil is their make-up.

when the zionist thumbed their collective noses at barry & biden by announcing new settlements on the day biden arrived in Tel Aiv they po'ed the executive branch of the us gubber-ment

the rapure-ist in congress assured zion that funding came from congress & barry could do nothing

barry held zion's feet to the fire before blocking a un resolution censuring the zionist .. settlement activity was quietly mostly stopped

barry demonstrated the executive branch's power by letting puppets, that were paid to leave zionists to to do what ever struck their fancy, were cut loose,

zion is in deep dodo..

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by sabang

There is at least one kiddy fiddler amongst them too. And a convicted rapist.
Quick, lets all panic and give a few more billion dollars of arnaments to poor Israel.
People are so gullible. Just tweak the same old strings and they're eating out of your hand.

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you seem to be quite the apologist for the allies, interestingly, even though it's clear they are abusing and trying to fool the public with their non-sense

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Sounds as if you've been hoodwinked as well.....associating the term allies as a positive thrust upon the Western Invaders, which they aren't of course. Nothing but a negative evil is their make-up.

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allies like WWII allies
the good guys

the same allies that forced the ottomans to join hitler to keep the frog & brit colonialists out of the ottoman empire

the allies ,, gawd & might makes right

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Originally Posted by foreigner

might makes right

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Obviously not- but it does control the News they read.

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

you seem to be quite the apologist for the allies

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Nothing to apologise for - they prevented a massacre. Now their next step, we'll just have to see.

Barry is quite clever in a political sense, by which I mean devious. foreigner gets the gist, but the reason the 'great unwashed' doesn't is quite deliberate. This game is being played well over their head.

40 civilians dead in Tripoli strikes: Vatican official | Reuters

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(Reuters) - At least 40 civilians have been killed in air strikes by Western forces on Tripoli, the top Vatican official in the Libyan capital said on Thursday, citing what he called reliable sources in close contact with residents.

"The air strikes are meant to protect civilians, but they are killing dozens of civilians," Bishop Giovanni Innocenzo Martinelli, the apostolic vicar of Tripoli, told Reuters by phone.

"In the Tajoura neighborhood, around 40 civilians were killed, and a house with a family inside collapsed," he said.

"In the Buslim neighborhood, due to the bombardments, a civilian building came down, although it is not clear how many people were inside."

NATO said it was investigating Martinelli's report but had no confirmation of civilian casualties in Tripoli.

Martinelli earlier told Catholic news agency Fides that the 40 civilians were killed in Buslim, but he later corrected the district to Tajoura, saying he had confused the names of the two neighborhoods.

He said his information on the killings came from "people who work with us, who have many contacts with residents, who are on the ground and know the situation very well.

"I rule out that they could be giving me the official line on this," he said. "I have not seen it myself but these are people that I know well.""

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Originally Posted by sabang

The airstrikes stopped Qadaffi's forces in their tracks, and prevented a bloodbath in the Benghazi region. Exactly in line with their stated objective.

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The alleged, potential bloodbath. The objective is to stop the killing not continue it. The "bloodbath" happened on the road outside Benghazi to Libyan Government forces; allegedly, "not independently verified", threatening "unarmed civilians"

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Originally Posted by sabang

they prevented a massacre

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says who ? the allies ? by creating another one ? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by OhOh

At least 40 civilians have been killed in air strikes by Western forces on Tripoli, the top Vatican official in the Libyan capital said on Thursday, citing what he called reliable sources in close contact with residents.

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looks like Gadaffi is being proved right in all his allegations, let's see how the "allies" apologists will spin that one, oh I know, freedom collateral damage

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Originally Posted by sabang

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Originally Posted by foreigner

might makes right

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Obviously not- but it does control the News they read.

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

you seem to be quite the apologist for the allies

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Nothing to apologise for - they prevented a massacre. Now their next step, we'll just have to see.

Barry is quite clever in a political sense, by which I mean devious. foreigner gets the gist, but the reason the 'great unwashed' doesn't is quite deliberate. This game is being played well over their head.

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"gawd & might makes right" has been the primary (negotiation is for the weak) position of US foreign policy for 60 years .. & huge part of the american exceptionist mind set
& 'western global policy' (+ queen) for 500 years:UK:


anything that has happened in the mid-east since 1947 is wrapped in zion.
the us HAD installed buy-able / controllable governments across the mid-east
any democratic government in the mid-east is a problem for the american exceptionist neo-cons (& pseudo neo-cons) ..
peoples of a common ancestry & religion often have a bond that is relatively hard to bribe (more difficult at least)

i think barry is letting the mid east sort it self out ..
the option is 'western' occupation for eternity .. or rapture.

all this started soon after biden was embarrassed (settlements announced the day he landed).. & publicly ridiculed by flag wearing & obviously biblical patriots
the moral majority (what?)

The total lack of cooperation by zion on issues critical to mid-east peace is eye opening.. & it's a uncooperative, f' every body but us, policy vocally encouraged by the same flag wearing & obviously biblical patriots
this makes conventional respectful negotiation impossible for the executive branch.
barry only has 2 years (guaranteed) to resolve an issue that began when the zionist bombed the brit military headquarters before WWII
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...048827,00.html

Libya: coalition air strike 'kills seven civilians' - Telegraph

"A coalition air strike has killed seven civilians and injured 25 injured, according to a doctor working with rebel forces."

"Dr Suleiman Refardi said that the incident happened on Wednesday in the village of Zawia el Argobe, near Brega, when the air strike hit an ammunition truck in a pro-Gaddafi convoy and damaged two houses. According to the doctor, the dead were four girls aged between 12 and 16 and three youths aged between 14 and 20.
The doctor said that villagers considered the casualties a "sacrifice and a price worth paying" for stopping Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's troops from taking back rebel-held territory. Zawia el Argobe is nine miles from Brega, where rebels forces are massed.
Nato officials said that they were making inquiries "down our operations chain to find out if indeed there is any information on the operation side that would support this claim"."

Shall we see the videos of the exploding truck, the houses being blown up and the "unarmed civilians", we seem to have enough videos showing missiles/bombs hitting parked planes and tanks.

None of the alleged attack on Benghazi by the Libyan Government tanks though.:confused:

Gaddafi sons may be seeking exit plan as key envoy holds talks in Britain

THE Gaddafi regime has sent one of its most trusted envoys to London for confidential talks with British officials.

Mohammed Ismail, a senior aide to Colonel Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, visited London in recent days, British government sources have confirmed.

The contacts with Mr Ismail are believed to have been one of a number between Libyan officials and the West in the past fortnight, amid signs the regime may be looking for an exit strategy.
Gaddafi sons may be seeking exit plan as key envoy holds talks in Britain

The Libyan foreign minister has defected, the rebels have come out with a ceasefire proposal- the most recent news being that this has been 'rejected' by Qadaffi- but what does that really mean? Rejected outright, or horse trading?

Stay tuned. The main action is not where the bullets are flying. :mid:

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

You're wrong, France and the UK were the ones who started it

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says who ? you ? the facts speak otherwise,

do you really think that France or the UK will start something like that without clearing first with their headmaster ? how naive are you ?

Sarko is a lackey and a disgrace, everyone in France hates him, and he just lost some local elections again

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Says reality, Sarko can't be too hated, and the French must support this barbaric attack on a soverign nation, because I haven't heard of the French people protesting against this war. The French and British were the ones gunning for war in Libya, because they have an interest in Libyan oil. The French were the first to recognize the rebels, after they said they would no longer sell oil to the Europeans if they didn't help them. Only a retard would think countries do things for the interest of another country, and not their own. Some French guy had an article on AL Jazeera talking how this is a good war for France because it makes the Arabs in France feel proud for being Arab and French.

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Originally Posted by koman

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

the rebels they seem to be indiscriminately firing in the air, or at God knows what. To think they, a group of people with no military training aren't killing their fair share of civilians is absurd. Funny how the Western press doesn't mention this.

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The rebels are civilians, or at least most of them are. Why would people with no military training kill civilians......and they are firing into the air.... maybe they are trying to kill flying civilians? Maybe the western press doesn't mention it because it's not happening..... talk about convoluted logic.

France and UK are only doing this because they are afraid if they don't, the rebels wont sell them oil? How about Denmark, Norway, Canada.........actually all 28 NATO members now....and a total of 40 nations at the London conference...all on side. Are they all concerned about getting Libyan oil because some old crone of a tribal leader made a ridiculous statement? Norway and Canada are totally self sufficient in oil....actually exporters of oil....what is their motivation? As far as the US concerned....no oil from Libya either....and very low down on their list of strategic priorities. Maybe France bullied them into it..........in this fantasy land of TD anything is possible.....:)

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Yes, of course the Western media is going to paint the "rebels" as a bunch of warm and fuzzy guys who spend their spare time volunteering and the local orphanage. The rebels are killing people, most likely more civilians then Gadhafi troops. They have been slaughtering black Africans, because they believe all black Africans are fighting for the Colonel. Hey genius, do you think those bombs and bullets they shoot into the air stay in the air? No, they eventually fall to the ground and kill people, duh! Yes, the other members of the NATO coalition have token forces involved in the conflict, thats what happens when you join a group likes NATO. The US is involved because they want to better ties with "old allies."

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Originally Posted by sabang

the rebels have come out with a ceasefire proposal

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The only people that the Libyan Government need to talk to and agree a cease fire with is NATO. The "unarmed civilians" will do as they are told.

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

The French and British were the ones gunning for war in Libya

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The government of the UK wanted the war. The population, that are active, have shown a massive majority demanding this immoral war be stopped.

The US president, aided by his secretary of state has promoted "change" throughout the world. It is now be questioned if they can deliver "change". Now, I would suggest that the "change" they were hoping for is not what they have got and obviously not what they planned for.

The US and NATO are getting there arses whipped by a fly blown desert state with 70's technology but a charismatic no nonsense leader. They started a war which they are unable to complete.

The US is lowering it's profile because the "folks" at home are restless and the rest of the world seeing through their hypocritical stance.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

The French and British were the ones gunning for war in Libya

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The government of the UK wanted the war. The population, that are active, have shown a massive majority demanding this immoral war be stopped.

The US president, aided by his secretary of state has promoted "change" throughout the world. It is now be questioned if they can deliver "change". Now, I would suggest that the "change" they were hoping for is not what they have got and obviously not what they planned for.

The US and NATO are getting there arses whipped by a fly blown desert state with 70's technology but a charismatic no nonsense leader. They started a war which they are unable to complete.

The US is lowering it's profile because the "folks" at home are restless and the rest of the world seeing through their hypocritical stance.

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Sorry, not going to take your word the UK population is against this war. I haven't seen any type of protest like there was when the Iraq war was in its infancy.

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Says reality, Sarko can't be too hated, and the French must support this barbaric attack on a soverign nation, because I haven't heard of the French people protesting against this war. The French and British were the ones gunning for war in Libya, because they have an interest in Libyan oil. The French were the first to recognize the rebels, after they said they would no longer sell oil to the Europeans if they didn't help them. Only a retard would think countries do things for the interest of another country, and not their own. Some French guy had an article on AL Jazeera talking how this is a good war for France because it makes the Arabs in France feel proud for being Arab and French.

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are you simply stupid or just being American ?

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Originally Posted by OhOh

The US president, aided by his secretary of state has promoted "change" throughout the world. It is now be questioned if they can deliver "change".

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and they completely failed, they jumped the gun. Fuckers. At least Bush was straight forward.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

The US and NATO are getting there arses whipped by a fly blown desert state with 70's technology but a charismatic no nonsense leader. They started a war which they are unable to complete.

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it's a lost war, and once again an humiliating defeat for the Americans and the Europeans. Serve them right.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

The US is lowering it's profile because the "folks" at home are restless and the rest of the world seeing through their hypocritical stance.

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I am hoping the birthers would be on Obama case again so they can keep him busy at home instead of bombing innocent civilians on a false pretense.

For once the silly US conservatives might have been right, Obama was a fraud at the end.

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

The French and British were the ones gunning for war in Libya

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The government of the UK wanted the war. The population, that are active, have shown a massive majority demanding this immoral war be stopped.

The US president, aided by his secretary of state has promoted "change" throughout the world. It is now be questioned if they can deliver "change". Now, I would suggest that the "change" they were hoping for is not what they have got and obviously not what they planned for.

The US and NATO are getting there arses whipped by a fly blown desert state with 70's technology but a charismatic no nonsense leader. They started a war which they are unable to complete.

The US is lowering it's profile because the "folks" at home are restless and the rest of the world seeing through their hypocritical stance.

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Sorry, not going to take your word the UK population is against this war. I haven't seen any type of protest like there was when the Iraq war was in its infancy.

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The UK population has learnt that peaceful protest, 5m plus protesters against the Iraq war, was completely ignored. Government enquiries regarding the reason and action during the war have been complete whitewashes. When the "people" protest now in the UK the police forces "kettle" people to stop them going away or continuing with their protest marches. Anyone who disagrees with these police tactics are beaten with batons, some killed through beatings.

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"Kettling" for those unfamiliar with the term involves the following. The organisers of the protest marches apply for permission to hold a protest march from the authorities. The marches, if approved, are allowed to congregate at a particular place and then march along an agreed route. If the march is determined, by the authorities, to be becoming "out of control", the authorities, generally the police but on occasions the army has been involved, break up the flow of the marchers by stopping a portion.

This cuts the original single, long line of marching people, into manageable sections. These sections are then corralled (kettled), sometimes by riot police in full headgear, shields and batons, sometimes by the introduction of metal barriers, and held. The duration of the marchers being held is at the discretion of the police. Nobody is allowed to leave the confines of the kettle. Anyone trying to leave is physically pushed back into the crowd of marchers. This of course leads to distress amongst the kettled marchers.

At the last election the People voted against the previous government who had become tainted with the ongoing wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the financial mismanagement of the UK economy. The result was a hung parliament, no overall winning party.

The UK constitution allows in, instances such as this, for the leader of the party winning the most votes to establish through inviting another party to join them in a "coalition". This was done and a government was formed.

Since the creation of the present government they have reneged on most of the issues that they campaigned on, the financial situation has deteriorated, people are losing their jobs, their houses and their ability to survive.

The "people" are also drugged by the media, both government and private tv/radio stations, regarding the situation in Libya. The "intelligent" voice as portrayed in the "quality" newspaper blogs is around 75% - 90% against the situation and against the handling of the war by the government.

My advice to you, if you want to learn what the "people" are saying, is to look not at the editorials or content of the newspapers but the live blogs hosted by all the national newspapers and read the posts. You will find a different view being expressed than that by the government or establishment. the blogs are moderated somewhat but most views are allowed.

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:smileylaughing:

The Punch ?

Mr Gribbs if you want to see an interview with an articulate Libyan please look at this video.

Gadaffi does not have a "western" media backgound. He seems more like a middle eastern "voice" but then that is his audience.

The Libyan government spokesman, Moussa Ibrahim, may be easier for you to follow. In this interview given to a UK television network Channel 4 he articulates his view on the current situation.

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