Those SAM missiles do cause a little "mechanical" failure when they hit an plane.Quote:
Originally Posted by crippen
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Those SAM missiles do cause a little "mechanical" failure when they hit an plane.Quote:
Originally Posted by crippen
All the hospitals shown look pretty well equipped for a third world country. Maybe I shouldnt compare them to whats around in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
I thought the "mechanical" failure was a just a washer leaking or the engine overheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Did the rescue crew take the unused missiles back with them?
You can see the look on the faces of the passengers waiting to board on the wings thinking, when you enter a BA flight. Shit have I got to sit in there.
didn't have you down for being down , but heyQuote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBr4-68_wNM
All, from your example to Carouso, very opinionated, ha ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney64
^ nice edit
Got any good Laos stories?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney64
Thanks for pointing out my silly mistake.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney64
Libya: US prepares to launch fresh raids - Telegraph
By Nick Squires, on board the USS Kearsarge, off the Libyan coast 5:28PM GMT 22 Mar 2011
"One of the Harrier pilots to take part in the bombing runs was Capt Michael Wyrsch, 33, from Maryland."
"We had intelligence that Gadaffi's forces were moving from the south towards Benghazi," he told the Daily Telegraph aboard the USS Kearsarge.
"When we were 50 miles away from the target we could see explosions in the distance. American F15s and F16s had flown in before us.
"It was pretty easy to engage the targets because they were strung out along a highway. It was a huge convoy - at least 50 vehicles. We engaged tanks, armoured fighting vehicles and artillery. They were all direct hits. We were not engaged by anti-aircraft fire and no missiles were shot at us."
So a pilot in the area and "intelligence" reported the convoy, on the road, was attacked.
Firstly, did the pilot confirm that in fact the convoy was heading towards or away from Benghazi and were his commanders aware of the convoys direction, did they in fact not care? - NO
Secondly any video to support the direction of travel of the convoy? - NO
Thirdly, if the Government Forces were in convoy travelling how were they threatening "civilians or civilian populated areas" - They were not
Fourthly, was the convoy attacking the illegal "crusader coalition" planes - NO
Fifthly, How far away from the targets did the pilot fire his missile? - 5 miles, 20 miles
Sixthly were any "Crusader Coalition" troops on the ground in the area to assit with targeting the convoy? -YES
Our brave boys then attacked a convoy of vehicles travelling along, or parked on, a road in agreement with their ceasefire and were illegally murdered.
No question of acting in self defence. - :deal:
No question of them attacking Civilians. - :deal:
Murder from 10,000 feet. :confused:
Murder from 5 miles. - :confused:
Murder assisted by "crusader forces" "on the ground. - :confused:
An illegal, immoral war waged by little men with expensive toys.
The "crusader coalition" leaders are criminals and should be taken to the ICC.
Hearts & minds. Hearts & minds.
Read more: Libya war: US chopper shoots 6 villagers who welcomed Air Force F-15 crash pilots | Mail Online:smileylaughing::smileylaughing:Quote:
U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed Air Force jet
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman
They were friends, so they got some friendly fire..........very common amongst friends..:)
The Government does not know how long the Armed Forces will be engaged in Libya, a defence minister admitted as debate intensified over the likely outcome, cost and leadership of the mission.
By James Kirkup, Thomas Harding and Damien McElroy in Tripoli 9:42PM GMT 22 Mar 2011
Nick Harvey, the Armed Forces minister, was asked how long Britain would be involved in the military operation in north Africa. He replied: “How long is a piece of string? We don’t know how long this is going to go on for.”
His admission, three days into the intervention, came as ministers faced mounting pressure to set out the limits of Britain’s involvement and explain their eventual exit strategy.
MPs were becoming increasingly concerned that Britain would be “sucked in” to a prolonged conflict.
Adding to the sense of uncertainty, France and Britain remained at odds over a plan for Nato to take over command of military operations when the US winds down its involvement, a transition expected in days.
In other development
• A defiant Colonel Gaddafi appeared on state television, addressing supporters from a compound in Tripoli that had been bombed by coalition forces. "We will not surrender ... we will defeat them," he told the crowds. "We are ready for the fight, whether it will be a short or a long one."
• US troops entered Libya briefly to rescue the pilot of a US fighter that crashed near the rebel stronghold of Benghazi. In a potential propaganda disaster, the rescuers opened fire on Libyans who were trying to help the pilot, injuring six of them.
• The Ministry of Defence said three nights of air strikes were having a “very real effect” on Muammar Gaddafi’s regime and a no-fly zone was being maintained. But the head of US forces said loyalist forces were continuing to attack rebels and civilians, especially in and around the city of Misurata. Anti-aircraft fire was heard again over Tripoli last night.
• Qatar made the first military contribution by an Arab nation to the UN campaign. Two Qatari fighter jets and a transport plane arrived in Crete to help police the no-fly zone.
• David Cameron spoke to President Barack Obama for the first time since air strikes began, with both agreeing that “a lot of work remained to be done” in Libya. They also agreed that Nato would have “a key role” in future operations but stopped short of proposing that it took command.
The House of Commons overwhelmingly backed Britain’s role in Libya this week, but uncertainty about the eventual exit strategy has alarmed many MPs.
The Daily Telegraph has calculated that patrolling the no-fly zone is costing Britain about £3.2 million a day, before a weapon is fired. In a BBC interview, Mr Harvey admitted that the Western intervention could result in a “stalemate” between Gaddafi and the rebels, with each holding on to part of the country. “If it is, so be it,” he said. “That wouldn’t be desirable, but a stable outcome where they weren’t killing each other would in a sense be one way of achieving the humanitarian objective.”
He also refused to rule out a small-scale deployment of British ground troops to Libya.
Rory Stewart, a Conservative MP and former diplomat, said that ministers should ensure that Britain’s involvement was strictly limited to enforcing a no-fly zone, and avoid being dragged into the country’s internal conflict.
“We have not declared war on Gaddafi and we should not declare war on Gaddafi,” he said. “Do not get sucked into Libya.”
Mark Lancaster, a Tory MP, TA soldier and parliamentary aide to Andrew Mitchell, the International Development Secretary, said ministers should push for a new United Nations agreement on Libya’s future. “I fear that we have no clear exit at the moment in Libya,” he said. “That is no reason not to go in, but I fear that we will need further UN resolutions before we see the end to the situation.”
John Baron, another Tory backbencher, told the BBC that ministers had not explained how the mission would unfold. “What is the exit strategy?” he said. “If this is not known, we risk being drawn into an ill-defined mission whilst civilian causalities rise. If there is a stalemate on the ground, are we simply going to walk away? These are questions that are not being answered at the moment, and I think they should be.”
Government sources said it was impossible to put a precise timetable on Britain’s involvement, but insisted that Mr Cameron was clear that British Forces would not become entangled in years of operations as they were in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Norway, which is sending fighters to police the no-fly zone, said it had put a three-month time limit on its involvement in Libya.
Britain has deployed a Royal Navy submarine, RAF Tornado and Typhoon fighters and a range of reconnaissance aircraft to the international intervention.
British forces did not fire on Libyan targets on Monday night, suggesting that the air strike phase may end soon, marking a new phase in which the coalition focuses on policing the no-fly zone. Libyan air strikes: Armed Forces minister admits there is no exit strategy - Telegraph
Libya war could last 30 years': Armed forces minister's extraordinary admissionI don't know why British and American citizens aren't getting fukking angry with their governments. This bullshit has to stop. We have an Orwellian world now and nobody is protesting.
you and a few others just didQuote:
Originally Posted by teddy
However, you live in a democratic world where no-one takes any notice of your opinion
As we all know in a true democratic society changes to government policies are made by either voting in or out a party who is perceived to having made the least complete fuck up or who is considered to likely to make the least complete fuck up in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by teddy
Unfortunately in recent years the above "conceived" process has been constantly and deliberately clouded by double dealing, lying politicians, excessive spin and downright bare faced lies. Spin by the way is a term brought about and introduced during Blair's term and further encouraged and used by that one eyed scottish wanker gordon the fucking moron!
In the UK we've recently experienced the biggesst con carried out by the politicians in living memory "New Labour" where there were so many complete fuck ups and lies told it's difficult to remember them all let alone list here so it's no wonder people in the UK are disilusioned and tired of politics.
So to summarise it's difficult for any disilutioned electorate to know who to protest about or who to protest to or exactly what against (there is so much wrong) and no matter who's voted into government the vested interests of the elected politicians cosying up to the International corporates for so many selfish reasons continues unabated.
I never had the pleasure of living under "New Labour". I had jumped ship well before that time, but I did live under the "old labour" for a time. I actually still have a copy of Harold Wilson's "Labour Manifesto" laying around somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney
Under "old labour", I was working about 75 hrs a week, making shit loads of money, only to have half or more of it conficated by the government and transferred by various means to others who were playing darts at the pub or heading to the beach while I was working. I must be just old fashioned by nature, but I thought then and now that hard work and risk should be rewarded, not punished. Many of my neighbours thought I was very reactionary for saying such things.
I know it's very fashionable to blast "politicians" and "corporations" but a big under laying problem is the electorate itself. There is an old saying that "you get the government you deserve" It's really been all downhill since the Romans left, with a few bright spots and highs here and there along the way....:) There was a tongue- in- cheek report a while back which suggested that in many ways the Serfs and Peasants of the 12th century were better off in many ways than the citizens of 21st century Britain..(more days off, lots of festivals, few laws and plenty of organic food and ale)......maybe because they did not get to elect their own governments.....:)
Snipers, shells, tanks terrorize key Libyan city; US mulls ‘all options’ in response - The Washington Post
Snipers, shells, tanks terrorize key Libyan city; US mulls ‘all options’ in response
By Associated Press, Tuesday, March 22, 11:24 PM
TRIPOLI, Libya — Moammar Gadhafi’s snipers and tanks are terrorizing civilians in the coastal city of Misrata, a resident said, and the U.S. military warned Tuesday it was “considering all options” in response to dire conditions there that have left people cowering in darkened homes and scrounging for food and rainwater.
The U.S. is days away from turning over control of the air assault on Libya to other countries, President Barack Obama said. Just how that will be accomplished remains in dispute: Obama spoke Tuesday with British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy in hopes of quickly resolving the squabble over the transition.
“When this transition takes place, it is not going to be our planes that are maintaining the no-fly zone. It is not going to be our ships that are necessarily enforcing the arms embargo. That’s precisely what the other nations are going to do,” the president said at a news conference in El Salvador as he neared the end of a Latin American trip overshadowed by events in Libya.
Gadhafi, meanwhile, made his first public appearance in a week, promising enthusiastic supporters at his residential compound in Tripoli, “In the short term, we’ll beat them, in the long term, we’ll beat them.”
Libyan state TV broadcast what it said was live coverage of Gadhafi’s less-than-five-minute statement. Standing on a balcony, he denounced the coalition bombing attacks on his forces.
“O great Libyan people, you have to live now, this time of glory, this is a time of glory that we are living,” he said.
State TV said Gadhafi was speaking from his Bab Al-Aziziya residential compound, the same one hit by a cruise missile Sunday night. Reporters were not allowed to enter the compound as he spoke.
Heavy anti-aircraft fire and loud explosions sounded in Tripoli after nightfall, possibly a new attack in the international air campaign that so far has focused on military targets. Two explosions were heard in the city before daybreak Wednesday.
One of Gadhafi’s sons may have been killed, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told ABC News on Tuesday. She cited unconfirmed reports and did not say which son she meant. She said the “evidence is not sufficient” to confirm this.
Clinton also told ABC that people close to Gadhafi are making contact with people abroad to explore options for the future, but she did not say that one of the options might be exile. She said they were asking, “What do we do? How do we get out of this? What happens next?”
Despite the allies’ efforts to keep Gadhafi from overwhelming rebel forces trying to end his four-decade rule, conditions have deteriorated sharply the last major city the rebels hold in western Libya.
Residents of Misrata, 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, say shelling and sniper attacks are unrelenting. A doctor said tanks opened fire on a peaceful protest Monday.
“The number of dead are too many for our hospital to handle,” said the doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals if the city falls to Gadhafi’s troops. As for food, he said, “We share what we find and if we don’t find anything, which happens, we don’t know what to do.”
Neither the rebels nor Gadhafi’s forces are strong enough to hold Misrata or Ajdabiya, a key city in the east that is also a daily battleground. But the airstrikes and missiles that are the weapons of choice for international forces may be of limited use.
“When there’s fighting in urban areas and combatants are mixing and mingling with civilians, the options are vastly reduced,” said Fred Abrahams, a special adviser at Human Rights Watch. “I can imagine the pressures and desires to protect civilians in Misrata and Ajdabiya are bumping up against the concerns about causing harms to the civilians you seek to protect.”
It is all but impossible to verify accounts within the two cities, which have limited communications and are now blocked to rights monitors such as the International Committee for the Red Cross.
Most of eastern Libya is in rebel hands but the force — with more enthusiasm than discipline — has struggled to take advantage of the gains from the international air campaign, which appears to have hobbled Gadhafi’s air defenses and artillery and rescued the rebels from impending defeat.
The coalition includes the U.S., Canada, several European countries and Qatar. Qatar was expected to start flying air patrols over Libya by this weekend, becoming the first member of the Arab League to participate directly in the military mission.
The Obama administration is eager to relinquish leadership of the hurriedly assembled coalition. A NATO-led operation would require the unanimous support of member nations but two of them, France and Turkey, do not want the alliance to take over.
A compromise was emerging that would see NATO take a key role, but the operation would be guided by a political committee of foreign ministers from the West and the Arab world.
Obama defended U.S. involvement against criticism from several members of Congress, including some fellow Democrats.
“It is in America’s national interests to participate ... because no one has a bigger stake in making sure that there are basic rules of the road that are observed, that there is some semblance of order and justice, particularly in a volatile region that’s going through great changes,” Obama said.
Visiting post-revolution Tunisia, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called on all nations to support the coalition effort in Libya. “Thousands of lives are still at stake. We could well see a further humanitarian emergency,” Ban said.
Germany, which abstained in the U.N. Security Council vote, took a concrete step Tuesday to underline its reservations, pulling its ships and crews from NATO operations in the Mediterranean to avoid taking part in the operation against Libya,
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Ajdabiya, a city of 140,000 that is the gateway to the east, has been fought over for a week. Outside the city, a ragtag band of hundreds of fighters milled about on Tuesday, clutching mortars, grenades and assault rifles. Some wore khaki fatigues. One man sported a bright white studded belt.
Some men clambered up power lines in the rolling sand dunes of the desert, squinting as they tried to see Gadhafi’s forces inside the city. The group periodically came under artillery attacks, some men scattering and others holding their ground.
“Gadhafi is killing civilians inside Ajdabiya,” said Khaled Hamid, who said he had been in Gadhafi’s forces but defected to the rebels.
Ahmed Buseifi, 32, said he was in Libya’s special forces for nine years before joining the opposition. He said other rebellious special forces had entered Ajdabiya and Brega, another contested city, hoping to disrupt government supply lines. The airstrikes, he said, leveled the playing field.
“If not for the West, we would not have been able to push forward,” he said.
A U.S. fighter jet on a strike mission against a government missile site crashed Monday night in eastern Libya, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) outside the rebel capital of Benghazi. Both crewmen ejected safely as the aircraft spun from the sky during the third night of the U.S. and European air campaign.
The crash, which the U.S. attributed to mechanical failure, was the first major loss for the U.S. and European military air campaign.
By Tuesday afternoon, the plane’s body was mostly burned to ash, with only the wings and tail fins intact. U.S. officials said both crew members were safe in American hands.
One of the pilots parachuted into a rocky field and hid in a sheep pen on Hamid Moussa el-Amruni’s family farm.
“We didn’t think it was an American plane. We thought it was a Gadhafi plane. We started calling out to the pilot, but we only speak Arabic. We looked for him and found the parachute. A villager came who spoke English and he called out, ‘We are here, we are with the rebels,’ and then the man came out,” el-Amruni said.
A second plane strafed the field where the pilot went down. el-Amruni himself was shot, suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back. He propped himself up with an old broomstick and said he bore no grudge, believing it was an accident.
The pilot left in a car with the Benghazi national council, taking with him the water and juice the family provided. They kept his helmet and parachute.
Since the uprising began on Feb. 15, the opposition has been made up of disparate groups even as it took control of the entire east of the country. Only a few of the army units that defected have actually joined in the fighting, as officers try to coordinate a force with often antiquated, limited equipment.
In Misrata, the doctor said rebel fighters were vastly outgunned.
“The fighters are using primitive tools like swords, sticks and anything they get from the Gadhafi mercenaries,” he said.
Mokhtar Ali, a Libyan dissident in exile who is still in touch which his family in Misrata, said rooftop snipers target anyone on the street, and residents trapped inside have no idea who has been killed.
“People live in total darkness in terms of communications and electricity,” Ali said. “Residents live on canned food and rainwater tanks.”
U.S. Navy Adm. Samuel J. Locklear said intelligence confirmed that Gadhafi’s forces were attacking civilians in Misrata, Libya’s third-largest city, and said the international coalition was “considering all options” there. He did not elaborate, but Misrata is one of the cities that Obama has demanded that Gadhafi forces evacuate.
Airstrikes overnight into Tuesday hit a military port in Tripoli, destroying equipment warehouses and trucks loaded with rocket launchers. Col. Abdel-Baset Ali, operations officer in the port, said the strikes caused millions of dollars in losses, but no human casualties.
But while the airstrikes can stop Gadhafi’s troops from attacking rebel cities — in line with the U.N. mandate to protect civilians — the United States has so far been reluctant to go beyond that. The Libyan leader was a target of American air attacks in 1986.
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and others said the U.S. military’s role will lessen in coming days as other countries take on more missions and the need declines for large-scale offensive action.
Two dozen more Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched from U.S. and British submarines, a defense official said earlier in the day. Locklear, the on-scene commander, didn’t give details but confirmed that brought to 161 the number of Tomahawk strikes aimed at disabling Libyan command and control facilities, air defenses and other targets since the operation started Saturday.
Locklear said the additional strikes had expanded the area covered by the no-fly zone.
Asked if international forces were stepping up strikes on Gadhafi ground troops, Locklear said that as the “capability of the coalition” grows, it will be able to do more missions aimed at ground troops who are not complying with the U.N. resolution to protect those seeking Gadhafi’s ouster.
A lot of what you say is correct but the politicians and corporates have worked together to benefit themselves and certainly not for the common good of mankind.Quote:
Originally Posted by koman
Nothing much has changed re the taxation you experienced under "Harold" only the methods used to collect it, i.e. back door taxation and trust me there's a lot more scroungers signing on nowadays than when you were working there!
West will end in "dustbin of history," Gaddafi says - Yahoo! News
West will end in "dustbin of history," Gaddafi says
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Reuters – People look at a U.S Air Force F-15E fighter jet after it crashed near the eastern city of Benghazi, …
By Maria Golovnina and Michael Georgy Maria Golovnina And Michael Georgy – 38 mins ago
TRIPOLI (Reuters) – Western powers pounding Libya's defenses will wind up in the dustbin of history, said leader Muammar Gaddafi as his troops held back rebel advances despite four nights of attacks from the air.
While Western air power has grounded Gaddafi's planes and pushed back his troops and armor from the brink of rebel stronghold Benghazi, disorganized and poorly equipped insurgents have failed to capitalize on the ground and remain pinned down.
The rebels have been unable to dislodge Gaddafi's forces from the key junction of Ajdabiyah in the east, while government tanks dominate the last big rebel hold-out of Misrata. There is big risk of stalemate on the ground, analysts say.
At least two explosions were heard in the Libyan capital Tripoli before dawn on Wednesday, Reuters witnesses said. The roar of a fighter jet was heard above the city and a barrage of anti-aircraft gunfire lit up the predawn sky.
"We will not surrender," Gaddafi earlier told supporters forming a human shield to protect him at his Tripoli compound.
"We will defeat them by any means ... We are ready for the fight, whether it will be a short or a long one ... We will be victorious in the end," he said in a live television broadcast, his first public appearance for a week.
"This assault ... is by a bunch of fascists who will end up in the dustbin of history," Gaddafi said in a speech followed by fireworks in the Libyan capital as crowds cheered and supporters fired guns into the air.
The Libyan government denies its army is conducting any offensive operations and says troops are only fighting to defend themselves when they come under attack, but rebels and residents say Gaddafi's tanks have kept up their shelling of Misrata in the west, killing 40 people on Monday alone, and also attacked the small town of Zintan on the border with Tunisia.
It was impossible to independently verify the reports.
REBELS BOGGED DOWN
The siege of Misrata, now weeks old, is becoming increasingly desperate, with water cut off for days and food running out, doctors operating on patients in hospital corridors and many of the wounded left untreated or simply turned away.
"The situation in the local hospital is disastrous," said a Misrata doctor in a statement. "The doctors and medical teams are exhausted beyond human physical ability and some of them cannot reach the hospital because of tanks and snipers."
The rebel effort in east Libya meanwhile was bogged down outside Ajdabiyah, with no movement on the strategic town since Gaddafi's remaining tanks holed up there after the government's armored advance along the open road to Benghazi was blown to bits by French air strikes on Saturday night.
Hiding in the sand dunes from the tank fire coming from the town, the rebels are without heavy weapons, leadership, communication, or even a plan.
While Western countries remain reluctant to commit ground troops who could guide in close air strikes, it remains to be seen whether the rebel's bravado and faith in God can take towns and advance toward their target of capturing Tripoli.
AGREEMENT ON NATO ROLE
Western warplanes have flown more than 300 sorties over Libya and more than 162 Tomahawk cruise missiles have been fired in the United Nations-mandated mission to protect Libyan civilians against government troops.
Defense analysts say the no-fly zone over Libya could end up costing the coalition more than $1 billion if the operations drags on more than a couple of months.
Obama said the allies should be able to announce soon that they have achieved the objective of creating the no-fly zone.
But, he said, Gaddafi would present a potential threat to his people "unless he is willing to step down."
"We will continue to support the efforts to protect the Libyan people. But we will not be in the lead," Obama said.
Obama, facing questions at home about the Libyan mission, duration and cost, wants the United States to give up operational control of enforcing the no-fly zone within days.
Obama spoke with French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday and they agreed NATO should play an important role in enforcing the Libyan no-fly zone, the White House said.
France had been against a NATO role for fear of alienating Arab support, while Turkey had also opposed the alliance taking a command role as it said air strikes had already overstepped what was authorized by the United Nations. But both countries' objections had been overcome, U.S. officials said.
The plan is for NATO's command structure to be used for the operations under the political leadership of a "steering body" made up of Western and Arab nations members of the alliance policing Libya's skies, diplomats said.
Libya ordered the release of three journalists who had been missing in the country, including two working with Agence France-Presse and a Getty Images photographer, Getty said.
The news came a day after Libya released four New York Times journalists captured by Libyan forces.
^A couple of long reports and my apologies if there's some repetition in both, but they cover all the bases so to speak. Love Gaddafi's speech... He's rather confident!
Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs
The 'optics' of Odyssey Dawn
By Pepe Escobar
"Odyssey Dawn, at least for now, is the first United States Africom war. The Pentagon, via Vice Admiral Bill Gortney, dispelled any doubts as he stressed that the "leading edge" is American. Homer is played by General Carter Ham, out of his headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany (no African country bothered to host Africom). And Ulysses - in what looks and sounds more like an Iliad than an Odyssey - is commander of Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn Admiral Sam Locklear, on board USS Mount Whitney somewhere in the Mediterranean.
The White House and the Pentagon war planners bet their "unique capabilities" on a mini-remix of the "shock and awe" of the Iraq war. The problem is Colonel Muammar Gaddafi appears to be neither shocked nor awed; he may be angry - as in his photo op this Tuesday at the Bab al-Aziziya compound - but he hasn't cracked up. And his regime is fighting back, not turning against the colonel. ..........."
Another interesting piece.
The present UK government was not elected per se. Two political parties cobbled together yet another "coalition" and is was excepted by the Queen. They have now gone ahead with policies totally at odds to what was promised prior to the election. So the electorates view was not really upheld.Quote:
Originally Posted by koman
The previous government showed what it thought of the "active electorate" by dismissing the 5,000,000 + who marched to show their government that they were against the illegal war with Iraq.
If you review the UK newspaper blogs 70% are anti war. Some of the US newspapers are now leading with anti war articles.
Libya: Navy running short of Tomahawk missiles
The Navy could run out of Tomahawk missiles after a fifth of the Navy stockpile has been used against Libya, sources disclosed yesterday.
Britain's nuclear submarine HMS Triumph was involved in the first strikes against Muammar Gaddafi's air defences. The submarine fired Tomahawk missiles at Libyan air defence targets during the opening two nights of co-ordinated action Photo: AP
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent 8:01AM GMT 23 Mar 2011
Defence insiders say as many as 12 of the weapons have been fired from the hunter–killer submarine Triumph in the past four days.
If this is correct, the Navy will have used up to 20 per cent of its 64 Tomahawks in the opening salvos of the war, leading to fears that it is "burning through" its armoury.
The situation could become an embarrassment for the Government if the submarine were the only vessel within range of a number of targets but could not fulfil the mission.
The submarines are stealthy and can loiter offshore unseen before going to depth to fire the Tomahawks.
The Block Four variant of the missile can travel more than 850 miles, can be retargeted in flight and can loiter above a target for more than two hours.
It is understood that plans are being made either to resupply Triumph or send another Trafalgar–class submarine to the Mediterranean as a substitute.
Triumph can carry up to 25 missiles or torpedoes. It is likely to have been loaded with as many as 20 of the long–range strike weapons. However, it is now likely to have used half its armoury.
Questions have been raised about why the number of Tomahawks was not increased during last year's Strategic Defence and Security Review which highlighted the role for submarines to be used for "strike capability".
"At this rate we are using up five or ten per cent of our stock per day and soon it could become unsustainable," a defence industry source said. "What if the strikes go beyond a second week? We will simply run out of ammunition."
Several of the 64 Tomahawks are being serviced because their fuel and computers need to be regularly checked.
However, a senior Navy source said: "If we need to have a submarine on task we will have a submarine on task. You have to remember that the UK is part of wider coalition."
The Navy has also indicated that it could rely on the American fleet to provide emergency stocks of Tomahawks if they ran out.
A Ministry of Defence official said the Navy would still remain "poised to deliver missiles if it needs to".
He said: "As we take out static targets the number of opportunities to use the Tomahawk will decrease."
The battle to enforce the no–fly zone over Libya is costing the taxpayer millions of pounds a day.
The cost of the four–day operation to date is £28.5million, The Daily Telegraph has learnt.
The cost of putting four Tornado GR4 bombers, three Eurofighter Typhoons plus support aircraft into action is an estimated £3,216,000 a day. The Tornado costs £33,000 an hour to operate, including fuel, capital costs and crew training and the Typhoon costs £80,000 an hour.
The Storm Shadow missiles and submarine–launched Tomahawks cost £1.1million and £800,000 each.
Defence chiefs are said to be lobbying the Prime Minister to ensure that the extra costs are paid from the Treasury's reserve budget. "This is a huge issue for us," said a senior military planner. "Who is going to pay for this?"
The Government is paying almost £5billion a year for the 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Libya: Navy running short of Tomahawk missiles - Telegraph
Scare and awe the electorate so they meekly agree to a large increase in the 'defence' budget. The fact that we haven't defended our island against invaders since 1066 escapes the electorates notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by crippen
looks like Petite Napoleon Sarkozi has been leading the silly idea of attacking Gadaffi and has now put Europe into total disarray about leadership and what's going on or what's the real plan
a total fuckup, all brought to you by Mini Bush Me Sarkozi,
even the Americans alone couldn't fuckup so rapidly, but Sarko could