Thread: When will the Egyptian Muppet fall ?

When will the U.S. (and Europe) supported dictator fall ? 30 years is enough...but I doubt it will get any better, especially for Israel.




Egypt protests: Eyewitness accounts

Thousands of people took part in rare anti-government protests in Egypt after an internet campaign inspired by the uprising in Tunisia.
In Cairo, where the biggest rallies were held, police used tear gas and water cannons in an attempt to disperse the crowds. At least three people have been killed, reports say.
Here, eyewitnesses describe the atmosphere during the day's events.

Abd-Allah, Cairo resident

I saw the riot with my own eyes. We were out in the morning, we didn't intend to protest, but we were caught up in it. I saw the police arresting everybody in a restaurant. Shortly afterwards we went home as it was too dangerous to stay out.
Now we are watching from the window what is happening outside. I hear people chanting: "Down with the president." I've seen the police using tear gas against protesters, though I haven't seen any violence. People are behaving as if they are ready to die. They keep pushing forwards.
Some people say that they won't stop until Mubarak is gone. The noise from the street is increasing not decreasing even though it is 2230 (2030 GMT). There are more people now than during the day. There are people gathered downtown where the parliament building is located. I have friends among the crowd and they tell me what is happening.
The atmosphere is very tense, it feels like a revolution. I see people who are determined, people who have nothing to lose, people who want a better future.
This protest is different. Previous protests would last about an hour, this seems to be much larger, much longer. I think this could bring only violence. Mubarak is so power hungry, he would do anything to hang on to power. If people keep on pushing, many will end up in jail.

Courtney Graves, American living in Giza

I went alone to Tahrir square today - my Egyptian friends seemed to think that the demonstration wouldn't live up to the hype.

But news of the incredible turnout had reached my friend Gehad and she was fervently trying to find someone to accompany her into the city. She never made it to the demonstration but she at least let me know what to expect.
I surfaced from the Metro station into a scene of happy panic. Riot police were lined up along every street and it was almost impossible to move at first. From afar, I could hear a roar of human voices coming from one side of the square.
I managed to find higher ground to stand on and I saw an immense mass of people making their way towards where I was standing. I saw as they managed to get past the authorities restraining them and they were finally able to express the anger so evident in their faces.
As the group passed me I joined them. Emotions were so high and passions so great it was almost tangible. I've never seen men so angry, yet so happy to be expressing their anger.
I walked next to girls in hijabs (Islamic headscarves) screaming for the downfall of Hosni Mubarak. I walked behind men begging God for freedom.
In the middle of the tumult, I spotted two Muslim men praying in the middle of the sidewalk.
I soon heard screams from behind me and realised that the police had sent tear gas canisters flying into the air. Everyone began to run away from the source.
Fortunately, I avoided the full force of the gas but my fellow protesters were not so lucky. Screams for water filled the air as men dropped to their knees, covering their faces. I saw one little girl furiously rubbing her eyes as tears streamed down her face.
I stayed for another hour, on the sidelines. I felt different about Egypt as I walked away, like the political stagnancy had finally come to an end. As I walked across a bridge to Zamalek I could still hear chants coming from Tahrir, "Horreyya, Horreyya, Horreyya!" - "Freedom, freedom, freedom!"

And the removal of Mabarak will ensure freedom and happiness for all.

Ever after and Amen.

that's good news, the biggest danger of those demonstration is the that removal of a brutal dictator creates a power void and that's when ambitious dictator candidates get their chance

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

And the removal of Mabarak will ensure freedom and happiness for all.

Ever after and Amen.

C'est la vie and Inshalla ! Sometimes you got to let nature take its course. Should have done the same in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

that's good news, the biggest danger of those demonstration is the that removal of a brutal dictator creates a power void and that's when ambitious dictator candidates get their chance

Yep , one bastard leaves quickly through the backdoor clutching the spoons and another bastard come in the front an orders some more .

Originally Posted by Bangyai

Originally Posted by Butterfly

that's good news, the biggest danger of those demonstration is the that removal of a brutal dictator creates a power void and that's when ambitious dictator candidates get their chance

Yep , one bastard leaves quickly through the backdoor clutching the spoons and another bastard come in the front an orders some more .

...those sticky Muzzies



Egypt police arrest 860 protesters as anti-government riots escalate

Tens of thousands of Egyptians turn out for largest protests country has seen in years, inspired by Tunisia uprising; Facebook, Twitter, and cellphones appear to be partially blocked.
Egyptian security officials reported Wednesday that a total of 860 protesters have been arrested since anti-government protests broke out Tuesday.
Tens of thousands of Egyptians have turned out for the largest demonstrations Egypt has seen in years, inspired by the recent uprising in Tunisia. They demanded President Hosni Mubarak's ouster and a solution to grinding poverty, rising prices and high unemployment.
Egyptian anti-government activists continued to clash with police for a second day Wednesday in defiance of an official ban on any protests. Beefed up police forces on the streets quickly moved in and used tear gas and beatings to disperse any demonstrations.
After nightfall Wednesday, more than 2,000 demonstrators were marching on a major downtown boulevard along the Nile when dozens of riot police with helmets and shields charged the crowd. It was a scene repeated throughout the day wherever demonstrators tried to gather.
They were the latest in outbursts of political discontent in Egypt that have been growing more frequent and more intense over the past year. Protests have erupted sporadically over police brutality, poverty and food prices, government corruption and mismanagement, and more recently sectarian strife between Christians and Muslims. Parliamentary elections in November were widely decried as fraudulent.
Many in Egypt see these events as signs of the authoritarian president's vulnerability in an election year. There is speculation that 82-year-old Mubarak, who has been in power for nearly 30 years and recently experienced serious health problems, may be setting his son Gamal up for hereditary succession.
But there is considerable public opposition and, according to leaked U.S. diplomatic memos, it does not meet with the approval of the powerful military. And the regime's tight hold on power has made it virtually impossible for any serious alternative to Mubarak to emerge.
The crackdown by authorities brought harsh words from European leaders, who expressed concern and said the events underline the need for democratization and respect for human and civil rights.
However, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton did not criticize Egypt's government - a key U.S. ally in the Middle East - but only said the country was stable and Egyptians have the right to protest while urging all parties to avoid violence.
Activists used social networking sites to call for fresh demonstrations Wednesday. But Facebook, a key tool used to organize protests, appeared to be at least partially blocked in the afternoon. On Tuesday, Twitter and cellphones appeared to be sporadically blocked as well. The Interior Ministry warned Wednesday that police would not tolerate any gatherings, and thousands were out on the streets poised to crack down quickly on any new signs of unrest after clashes on Tuesday that killed three demonstrators and one police officer.
Early Wednesday, thousands of policemen in riot gear and backed by armored vehicles took up posts in Cairo on bridges across the Nile, at major intersections and squares as well as outside key installations such as the state TV building and the headquarters of Mubarak's ruling National Democratic Party.

Yeh, Mubarak is one of 'our' Dictators. The US will be viewing events with some concern. Israel even more so.
I hope Hillary and the states generally has the good sense to stay out of this one though.
I'm no expert on gypoland, but the general feeling is that this has been brewing for a long time.
Our immediate hope is that, if Mubarak falls (no loss) the Islamic loonies don't take over.
More individually ('cus the West doesn't seem to care), I hope he's not replaced by a military junta.
In either of these eventualities, it's out of the frying pan and into the fire for Egypt.

The Mubarak regime has basically been bribed by the US for toeing the line on Israel/ Palestine. Very short sighted imo- because it just feeds the islamoloonies.

But nobody labours under any illusion that Mubi is a 'nice guy'. This could indeed get pretty bad.

another failure by GW Bush when he had a chance to take him out pre-Iraq invasion

Well, given that his son and heir, and family and 100+ suitcases, just fled to the UK, I would say that things are looking a bit shaky for Daddy. At least when the UK admits this one, they probably won't have to worry about him going on the dole.

^ He might even buy Harrods.

The Obama administration is openly supporting the anti-government demonstrations shaking the Arab Middle East, a stance that is far less tempered than the one the president has taken during past unrest in the region.
As Arabs protest, Obama administration offers assertive support

Good on them- and I hope they are getting the message in Israel.

if that POS Mubarak could fall, that would be good news

Morocco next ? also long overdue with that hysterical and brutal gay King

Originally Posted by Butterfly

if that POS Mubarak could fall, that would be good news

Morocco next ? also long overdue with that hysterical and brutal gay King

Morocco, Jordanien, Iran ? But c'mon lets face it, what do these muslim countries want ? More democracy and freedom ain't going to help them. Egyptian civil workers are protesting for more money. Do these lazy pencil pushers even know what work is.
Their last achivement where the pyramids and after that....? These muslim countries have nothing to offer exept oil and a bit of tourism. Their religion is whats keeping them backwards.
My advise to the Egipian People is: "Go out and burn some Korans !" Because their is no political system in this world that is going to pamper your lazy asses.


P.S. I know my statement is a big harsh. Maybe someone can put it political conform wording .

Yemen next ?

The popular revolt in Tunisia has inspired the largest protests "in the recent history of Yemen", the editor-in-chief of the Yemen Post newspaper, Hakim Almasmari, says.
Yemenis were not prepared anymore to put up with widespread poverty while "corruption is everywhere", Mr Almasmari told the BBC World Service.
"They are saying: 'Enough is enough, we want justice, and those who are corrupt should be taken to court'."
Thousand of Yemenis have been demonstrating in the capital Sanaa, calling on Ali Abdullah Saleh, president for 30 years, to step down.
Mr Almasmari said the opposition had decided to initiate protests against the president because "they felt that all chances of a dialogue with the ruling party are vanishing".

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, US military aid to Egypt totals over $1.3 billion annually. 'My' money, in other words, is keeping Mubarak in power. That government is now doing this to its people. Listen to the audio. It's hard to say just what's happening, given the media blackout, but clearly terrible things are happening in Egypt.

Source

Naaahhh Boon Mee, you got it all wrong. Those $ 1,3 billions annually went to Israel. Instead of investing $ 1,3 billion for Americans (let's say health insurance ), it got invested for a programm called: "Investing in Israeli Borders."

Israeli Minister: Mubarak regime will prevail in Egypt, despite protests

Egyptian security apparatus will use required force to retain control, says a minister in the Netanyahu government who insists on maintaining anonymity.

Israel expects the Egyptian government to weather the protests roiling the country and to remain in power, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Thursday, providing Israel's first official assessment of the crisis affecting its powerful southern neighbor.
The minister said that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, backed by his powerful security forces, was strong enough to overcome the unrest, though he did not rule out the possibility of further violence.


"His regime is well-rooted in the military and security apparatus," the minister said. "They will have to exercise force, power in the street and do it. But they are strong enough according to my assessment to overcome it."
He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was discussing a sensitive diplomatic issue with a key ally.
Anti-government protests in Egypt entered their third day on Thursday, with activists trying to oust President Hosni Mubarak throwing rocks and petrol bombs and playing cat-and-mouse with police, who fired rubber bullets and tear gas at demonstrators.
The riots are threatening to destabilize Mubarak's regime, which has ruled for 30 years. An Islamist insurgency challenged Mubarak in the 1990s and was crushed by his vast security apparatus.
But this is the first time since taking office in 1981 that he has faced such widespread protests from Egypt's large, youthful population. The protesters have vented rage over the government's neglect of poverty, unemployment and rising prices.
Egypt was the first Arab country to reach peace with Israel three decades ago. It remains one of Israel's most important allies by acting as a bridge to the wider Arab world.
Mubarak took power in the wake of the assassination of Anwar Sadat, the Egyptian leader who reached peace with Israel. Mubarak has preserved that agreement, turning himself into a force of moderation and Western bulwark in a region where Islamic radicals have gained increasing strength.
Vice Prime Minister Silvan Shalom said Thursday that the government is closely watching the situation in Egypt.
"Egypt is the most important country in the Arab world. Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel and we think that the treaty, that the peace treaty with Israel is very strong and the (mutual) interests between the two countries are very, very big and important," he said. "For the time being," he added, "Israel does not see a threat to those relations."
Eli Shaked, a former Israeli ambassador to Cairo, said it is in Israel's interest for Mubarak's regime to survive since the alternatives, ranging from an Islamic government to the secular opposition, would be far less friendly to the Jewish state.
"I am very much afraid that that they wouldn't be as committed to peace with Israel, and that would be bad for Egypt,* bad for Israel and bad for the U.S. and the West in general," he said.

*Why bad for the U.S. ? most Americans don't even know the meaning of Cairo.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

His regime is well-rooted in the military and security apparatus,

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

it is in Israel's interest for Mubarak's regime to survive

Both true- although to put the second point in perspective, he is really referring to the illegal occupation of Palestine.

Interesting then that The US/ Obama admin has made a clean break with Israel here- they are in favour of the democracy movement. This is quite significant- and well overdue.

well the dream of the first Islamic fundamentalists from the 1950s might actually come true. They were hoping for a mass protest to overthrow westernized dictators in the Middle East so they could replace them with a modern and moderate Islamic regime.

It failed when they tried in the 1960s, but it might actually work now.

unbelievable, and as usual the Americans showing their true fascist colors

I've just been watching some of the coverage on the BBC about an hour ago. Looks like big things in the air for Egypt...whether that is good or bad we will have to see. The issue is far from decided yet, but it appears the demonstrators have the Security police...a much hated group for their brutality and rampant corruption I'm told...on the run. I watched the scenes of the Egyptian crowds overcoming the police and saw the police running away with my own eyes (on the BBC news I mean). The Egyptian Army is still respected by the population, I also saw scenes of people climbing up on Army APC's and the Army troops shaking the hands of the demonstrators and apparently some of the Army were joining the demonstrators. If that goes on, if the Army does come in on the side of the demonstrators, then Mubarak and his government is finished. The problem is this: What will replace the government. The wild card is the Muslim Broterhood...if they grt the upper hand then a "Islamic Revolution" (as in Iran when the Shah was ousted) is a real possibility. But we will just have to wait and see what happens. Right now, the situation is too fluid and uncertain to call.
For all of you who say Mubarak is the puppet of the west...don't be so sure. The U.S. and the European Union have a vested business interest in a "stable" Eqypt. The welfare and wishes of the Egyptian people are a secondary concern just as long as the "business interests" in the U.S. and Europe are making money. Once that situation is threatened, whatever government is in power in Egypt at the time will be abandoned, just as long as whatever government does take over keeps "business interests" stable and profitable.
And a leson for certain other governments...the Thai government included maybe(?) ... the spark that started the whole thing was the increase in food prices...almost 13% inflation (even by government estimates) last year.
The Thai government ought to think long and hard about that. Cairo isn't Bangkok, but ...a word to the wise... as they say.
The one certainty is that whatever happens it will be different from what was "before".

"The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny.
These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere," Obama said in his statement to the press. Obama spoke with Mubarak after the latter addressed the nation, in which he ordered the resignation of his entire Cabinet.

The US President also called on the Egyptian government to restore services of Internet and cellphone, which was earlier suspended following the protests. "At the same time, those protesting in the streets have a responsibility to express themselves peacefully.

Halt crackdown on protestors, Obama tells Mubarak - Hindustan Times

I certainly can't fault Obama's response here. Which rather begs the question- why the silence when it happened in Thailand?

Mubarak telling his Cabinet to resign is a clumsy attempt at shifting the blame now, isn't it?
Will the Egyptian muppets will fall for it?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

another failure by GW Bush when he had a chance to take him out pre-Iraq invasion

Wrong. Egypt protests show George W. Bush was right about freedom in the Arab world..

Originally Posted by sabang

Which rather begs the question- why the silence when it happened in Thailand?

you are a bit thick aren't you ? the protesters in Egypt are not a 500 THB rent a day lobotomized cattle crowd

that's the difference dear