Thread: Did the Siamese build Angkor Wat?

Were the Siamese Khmer?

Sounds like yet more attempts by the Thai psychotic network to wind up the cambodians. They really should be careful, as sometimes you get what you wish for.

I'm just waiting for them to say that William Shakespeare was thai

next thing we will hear is that Pimai was built by the Thais
or even ancient Lopburi

Unfortunately, there will be a small handful of the PAD faithful that will believe this kind of nationalist garbage .

Originally Posted by hazz

Sounds like yet more attempts by the Thai psychotic network to wind up the cambodians.

Eeh? Then you have to explain why

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

he has even lost the ASTV Manager crowd…

Its quite possible that Angkor Wat was built by Siamese as Dr Twich explains.
Everyone who knows a bit of Thai and Cambodian history do also know that both countries has ruled the whole area during different historical times.

Angkor Wat is in any case part of Cambodian territory now so they own it and there is nothing in the article claiming ownership..

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Were the Siamese Khmer?

where were the Thai people in the early 11 hundreds?

Originally Posted by lom

Originally Posted by hazz

Sounds like yet more attempts by the Thai psychotic network to wind up the cambodians.

Eeh? Then you have to explain why

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

he has even lost the ASTV Manager crowd…

Its quite possible that Angkor Wat was built by Siamese as Dr Twich explains.
Everyone who knows a bit of Thai and Cambodian history do also know that both countries has ruled the whole area during different historical times.

Angkor Wat is in any case part of Cambodian territory now so they own it and there is nothing in the article claiming ownership..

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Were the Siamese Khmer?

It is not possible that Angkor Wat was built by the Tai. They were running around in rags somewhere near the Lao border in the 10th century. They weren't civilized enough to to built it 250 years later either because by that time they'd just reached Chiang Saen.

You must be a huge fan of Prince Damrong and his artificial rosetta stone too.

Originally Posted by lom

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazz
Sounds like yet more attempts by the Thai psychotic network to wind up the cambodians.
Eeh? Then you have to explain why

Everything that the TPN have said and done lately relating to Cambodia lately has been of a nature which would be seen as deliberatly offensive by many Cambodians.

The Cambodians do seem insanely sensitive rebating any comments regarding Ankor and Thailand. Having merderous riots even when the comments are made by fictional characters in Thai soaps.... As anyone would take that pulp seriously.

The timing of this announcement in the current climit is so bad even a moron would delay it, unless the intention was to sire up more trouble. And that's why I am suggesting this is the work of lunnies in or sympathetic with the TPN

Regarding Angkor Michael Vickery is an acknowledged scholar of pre- Angkorian and Angkorian inscriptions. Those books are difficult to find though. He's better known for his books on the KR.

Also worth a read are

Ben Kiernan, David Chandler and William Shawcross.

For those truly interested the libraries of the EFEO (Ecole Francaise d'Extreme Orient) contain everything there is to know. I only know the one in Siem Reap but I think their big base in SEA is in Chiang Mai.

There have been several attempts by Thai so- called scholars at revisionism. I think there are even threads here on Teakdoor with this subject. The most recent ones were started by Thaksin. But there is at least one involving Prince Damrong and his re- interpretation of Suvannabum and the fake Thai 'rosetta stone' that nobody has been allowed to study.

Building blocks of Angkor Wat were shipped in by canal
20 October 2012

IT IS never too late to find a shortcut. Centuries after the construction of Cambodia's Angkor Wat, archaeologists have uncovered traces of a series of canals that suggest the 5 million tonnes of sandstone used to build the temples took a far shorter route than previously thought.

The sandstone blocks each weigh up to 1.5 tonnes and originate from quarries at Mount Kulen. It was thought they were taken 35 kilometres along a canal to Tonlé Sap Lake, rafted another 35 km along the lake, then taken up the Siem Reap River for 15 km, against the current.

Thinking this was unlikely, Etsuo Uchida and Ichita Shimoda of Waseda University in Tokyo, Japan, used satellite images to search for a shortcut. The canals they discovered led from the foot of Mount Kulen to Angkor - a gentle 34-km route, as opposed to the arduous 90-km trek previously suggested. The pair also uncovered more than 50 quarries at the foot of Mount Kulen and along the route. The stones they found matched those in the temples (Journal of Archaeological Science, doi.org/jhf).

Uchida believes all the stone used for the monuments was probably transported along these canals.

Mitch Hendrickson of the University of Illinois, Chicago, says Uchida's theory could be confirmed by searching for blocks that fell overboard into the canals. He believes the canals were used for several purposes, including the transportation of important minerals such as iron.

newscientist.com

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

where were the Thai people in the early 11 hundreds?

Probably in Yunnan.

Without really knowing anything about anything, isn't it bleeding obvious that they never built it as there is absolutely nothing like it in Thailand itself?

There were several groups/ethnicities of peoples crossing the Pacific up to 10,000 years ago, all travelling by stellar navigation.

Evidence for this is in camp fires found on many isolated and uninhabited Pacific islands, carbon dated back to that time. They are called the mystery islands.

So called mystery islands have no source of fresh water or mammals living on them, but have abandoned campfires above the high water mark where travellers once camped and ate and fashioned arrow or soear points from stone transported from many places in the Pacific.

Analysis of the tiny stone chips and broken points fashioned by these intreoid travellers indicate where they may have come from.

A lot of the stibne comes from Manus Island, Papua NG area and some from S.America.

Recent DNA results revealed that some of New Zealand's early population as evidenced by the Wairau Bar burials were of three distinctly separate matrilinial ancestries, and reconstructions have been made, revealing one woman, dubbed "Aunty" by the local Maoris looked strikingly European, not the classical Maori look at all.


"Aunty" Wairau Bar NZ.

There has always been conjecture that NZ was earlier populated by folk other than classical and archaic Maori, who arrived in NZ around 400 and 900 yrs ago respectively.

NZ has many interesting petroglyphs, including script identified as Minoan linear "B", the script used by Phoenecians and Mediterraneans before Greek was used.

Other scripts have also been found carved on rock, along with carvings of sailing ships, some with oars.

Even more recent artefacts, such as Portugese swords, a Spanish helmet, Portugese gold coins and European skulls dating to the 13th century have also been found, but not officially recognised.

Why?

Official NZ history and politics will not allow the discussion or study of these anomalous stones, as Maori are officially regarded as the only and first occupiers of the land before Europeans arrived.

Were these people at all involved in trade with the Khmer? Did they transport architects from one side of the world to the other 10,000 years ago until even more recently, before European claims were made on land in the Antipodes?

The similarities in burial customs, stone architecture and later meytal work between far flung parts of the world may indicate a more advanced state of development in places like South America and SE Asia than officially taught.

The undersea ruins of Yonaguni in the Okinawa Island group is another architectural area not even discussed, dated to at least 6 -10,000 years old.



Model of undersea structure at Yonaguni.



Passageway.



Carved head.




Platforms.



Similar above sea level.

Were the people who carved Yonaguni the same people who inspired the Khmer to start hydraulic agriculture and build Angor?

There are stone buildings ion the Waipoua Forest of NZ, hidden away from the public, untalked of except by a few.

No, the Maori didn't build the city of Waipoua. It was there andsurrounded by forest before Maori arrived.

China's claims to Asia are purely political and inevitably ignore all ethnic diversities in order to establish territorial dominance.
This policy has been ongoing since the Han arose some 2000 years ago.

Other nations also make blanket claims over territories to establish "first nation" status, again for political and financial gain, oil and gas reserves being the chief motivators these days.

Coming back to who the people were who built Angor, there is substantial evidence that a bronze age, pre-Khmer civilisation flourished in SE Asia along the Mekong river.
Archaelogical evidence suggests that these bronze age sites extended from Cambodia all the way up to Northern Lao, near Luangprabang.

Artefacts discovered in N. Lao include polished stone spinning whorls and cast bronze axe heads along with large polished stone (basalt) adzes.
This suggests that metal workers co-existed along side stone tool makers around 3,000 years ago along the Mekong, before the use of iron arrived in SE Asia.

Some evidence suggests that the use of bow and arrow arrived in N Burma, Assam and N Thailand along with migrants from central Asia at about the same time, 3,500 years ago.

The use of bow and arrow only initially occurred among some cultural groups in Central Asia, and migrated with them across Asia to Shang dynasty China (aprox 2,000 BC) along with bronze casting and the wheel.

Monumental stone architecture, as in Angkor, didn't arise until well after the iron age started in SE Asia.

Cross bows appeared around 2,500 years ago in China, and the Shan (Burma, Yunnan) claim to be the first to use them in SE Asia.

So who were the migrants from Central Asia that penetrated as far as the Mekong before Angkor was built? They had superior technical skills to the polished stone folk of most of SE and East Asia.

These migrants didn't come from India. Indian influence is seen in the earliest Angkor sculptures, but were then overlaid by Buddhist carvings after Ashoka had sent the first Buddhist missionaries to Burma during the time of his Mauria empire, circa 200 BC.

Very little Thai, or Chinese influence is seen in the monumental Angkor complexes or any stone structures, artefacts etc found in SE Asia.

The works show a combination of S American (Inca) building methods overlaid by Indian sculpture

Stone circles and walls in New Zealand.


Waipoua

Waipoua


Primitive stone walls, cup and ring marks and a circular stone observatory.
All non-Maori, but found in New Zealand.
The stone walls above are part of the Waipoua stone city, population at its peak was estimated to have been of about 5,000 people.

Cup and ring stone on left is from NZ, the middle one from Ireland and the stone bowl carved in NZ by a previous people to Maori, who called them Ngati Hotu, related to Patupaiarehe.
They buried their dead in carved wooden coffins.

Well are the Khmer not half Indian?

Just look at the statues.

I'm not sure about that.
Definitely a strong Indian culture influence in Angkor, and I'd guess that some intermarriage occurred between the Indian visionaries who influenced Angor's sculptures and its local builders.

The khmer civilisation was at the centre of a trade system stretching from Rome to China 2,000 or more years ago.
This system was part of a global network of trading circles which spread across the Pacific and all of Polynesia to South America.
Roman pottery made in India has been discovered in Borneo and both Roman and Chinese coins found together at the same occupation level in Arnhem Land Australia.

There's been a lot of travel to and from Angkor, both over land and by sea and river, so several possibilities exist as to who the architects there were.
They were known as the Khmer, but their ancestry is as yet unclear, other than the majority came from the North.

Funny how all those khmer temples look similar and most of them are in either cambodia or eastern thailand.
When the thai sacked longveak they stole much of cambodias culture including the classical dancing.The khmer were centuries ahead of thais culturally.
Too hard for thai propagandists to accept however.

The Khmer civilization and its architecture spread as far west as Meghalaya, Assam, India.
The Khasi people of Meghalaya are Mon-Khmer and speak a language similar to Khmer.

Archaeological evidences there suggest a migration date of between 700 - 1200 AD for Mon-Khmer into Meghalaya. The later date approximates with the migration of Thai from Yunnan into Siam after the collapse of the Khmer civilisation in the 12th century.

Ancient Khasi erected monoliths and keep their cremated remains in small stone cromlechs.
Other Assamese hill tribes are non-Khmer, they're Tibeto-Burmese, as well as Brahmaputra valley tribes.

Originally Posted by cambtek

Funny how all those khmer temples look similar and most of them are in either cambodia or eastern thailand.
When the thai sacked longveak they stole much of cambodias culture including the classical dancing.The khmer were centuries ahead of thais culturally.
Too hard for thai propagandists to accept however.

Eastern Thailand - but most of the more well-known/famous architectural examples throughout the very important old ruins of Sukhothai, Phitsanulok, Kampheang Phet, Lopuri, and Ayutthaya are very much influence by Khmer-Indo styles.

Less, we get into the overall and strong influence of dress fashion, art, music, cuisine, customs, architecture, etc that "lends" itself Thai from a Khmer-Lao influence.

The contemporary ideal of what Thai might be is a bit of an invention....largely adapted from a good century plus of subliminal promotion/propaganda/conditioning.