Future of America?

**Jet Gorgon** · 06-05-2010, 02:25 AM

How do you like this ad? Will it go nationwide so they can get Rangel and Geithner?

**slimboyfat** · 06-05-2010, 02:27 AM

I don't know. I think I clicked on the wrong thread in 'New Posts'

**Camel Toe** · 06-05-2010, 02:33 AM

Seems unlikely we'll return back in time where we're paying doctors with chickens. Technology marches on, no stopping it. Of course conservatives don't like it. They already have theirs so the rest of the population will just have to make do, after all, a lumpen is worth more than a laborer.

Aren't you going to demand a link?

**sabang** · 06-05-2010, 07:48 AM

A section of the American right, as illustrated by the Teabaggers, seems to want to live in a mythologised time capsule of 1950's & 60's America. Looking at the sitcoms from that era, everyone lived in a tidy house in a small town street, neigbours were friendly, everyone was cleancut, white and comfortable, and the token negro- when he appeared- was always cheerful and respectful. Of course it's bullshit. There were, and are, many different 'Americas'.

The USA, like other nations, did not become 'great' by remaining the same, quite the opposite. It became great by successfully incorporating change. It was able to become great by massive, and successive waves of immigration- and it certainly had the land to accommodate these waves of immigrants. Even now, the USA has a low population density by European standards.

The highly Protectionist USA of the early 20th century gave way to the aggressively pro- Free trade USA of the late 20th century. 'Fortress America' became the 'Worlds Policeman'. White America became multi- cultural America- but only after the trauma's of the Civil war, abolition and the Civil rights movement. Of course there were other hysteria's and follies along the way- Prohibition, McCarthyism, Vietnam and- it would increasingly seem- Reaganism.

Reaganism itself can be seen as an antidote to what was perceived to be the excessive regulation (and taxation) of the era that preceded it, the 1960's. It is what it led to that is the problem- the deregulatory zeal, deficit financing policies built on fiscally irresponsible tax policies, growing and obscene wealth differentials and concentration, short term greed and asset shuffling at the expense of long term investment, and the wholesale shipping of manufacturing jobs offshore. And debt, debt, debt- debt became a tax deduction, and the false liquidity provided by this sea of debt drove up asset prices in an inflationary spiral. It all culminated in the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression, where our economic system had to be saved by emergency (and expensive) government intervention. So it seems, when the shit hit the fan, government was no longer the 'Problem'- to use a Reagan era mantra. It was, in fact, the Saviour.

So the USA is in a process of change, again. Nothing new there. It has to change. The forty or so years since the dawn of Reagan era have seen the USA slip from having the worlds highest standard of living, to not even close. Europeans and Aussies consider your minimum wages a pittance, and your social welfare system Medieval. The irrational zeal to have everything done by a largely unregulated private sector led to the US being the only advanced nation in the world not to have universal health care- yet paying over double as a percentage pf GDP for that dubious privilege! Only now is that being addressed. It led to your government being the worlds largest debtor, because of irresponsible fiscal and tax policies that only benefited the Rich. It lead to your manufacturing capacity being mostly shipped offshore- China is now the worlds factory, not the USA. China is now the worlds largest exporter, not the USA. But the USA is still the worlds largest importer. And the somewhat belligerent (and in many cases failed) foreign policy of the USA that predated Reagan has had to be reassessed in the cold light of modern realities, and of course the wisdom of hindsight.

The Reagan era is over, dead. It was moribund for a long time- shame it took you so long to realise it, because I did. And a modern day American life does not even vaguely resemble a bit part in the Andy Griffith show, if it ever did. Only by changing can the US begin to regain the vigour, competitiveness, and standards of living, of an idealised past.

It only remains to say that those most fiercely resistant to change, those most rooted in a glorified past, are of the same Demographic as those that most fiercely resisted Civil rights reform, and no doubt Abolition before that. Mostly, they were also on the losing side in the Civil war. It is a blind adherence to Reagan era policies gone crazy that what would spell 'no future' for America.

**Camel Toe** · 06-05-2010, 08:03 AM

good one

you must spread it around ...

**SEA Traveler** · 06-05-2010, 08:04 AM

Being originally from Pennsylvania myself and the fact that I am still using my Pennsylvania address as my home of record, possibly I should be concerned. But hey, I'm still paying my taxes to support the socialism that is developing under obamaism. There may be a day sometime soon though where they will have to come looking for me because the tax stuff is getting way out of hand.

**Camel Toe** · 06-05-2010, 08:06 AM

Wesley Snipeistic are we?

**AntRobertson** · 06-05-2010, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by SEA Traveler

I'm still paying my taxes to support the socialism that is developing under obamaism

It's like the same propaganda track, stuck on an endless loop...

**Camel Toe** · 06-05-2010, 08:14 AM

an endless loop such as thesis/antithesis/synopsis?

**sabang** · 06-05-2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by SEA Traveler

support the socialism that is developing under obamaism

If I may suggest, 'Obamunism'.

Incidentally, the thuggery of that 'orrible IRS of yours ain't nothing to do with Obama. And Obama's policies Socialist- don't make me larf.

I suppose, if I was American, I might resent the fact that overall taxation will have to rise as a % of GDP to pay off your colossal government debt. The burden of that will fall mostly on the Rich, and correctly so- for it is they that inordinately benefited from the irresponsible tax policies that preceded it- especially under dubya. Heck, if Reagan is your Icon, just consider this- bring back taxation levels for the Rich to what they were under Reagan! That will go a long way to addressing your government deficit.

Things have to change, surely that is clear. Reaganism may not have been bad at the time- but gone crazy, under the tutelage of the Monetarists and the disastrous Dubya era, just look at what happened. It's a lame argument to say that a national healthcare system is Socialist, when every other advanced Capitalist economy in the world already has it, and pays much less than you do for it. But forget the 'social' aspects of universal health care if you like and just focus on the economics of the matter, going forward.

**Freeloader** · 06-05-2010, 02:57 PM

Seems like the TD consensus is, Socialism good, America Bad.

Looks like a great place to get real "analysis" of "issues"

**barbaro** · 06-05-2010, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Freeloader

Seems like the TD consensus is, Socialism good, America Bad.

Looks like a great place to get real "analysis" of "issues"

Freeloader,

I don't know of any socialists that post in Issues. There may be one or more.

But I've never really felt any posters were "socialist" that post here.

**sabang** · 06-05-2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Freeloader

America Bad.

Sorry, but I think America is great. And I've lived and worked there.

Originally Posted by Freeloader

Socialism good

And heres why no thinking person can take you seriously. Don't you understand?

**Jet Gorgon** · 06-05-2010, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

It only remains to say that those most fiercely resistant to change, those most rooted in a glorified past, are of the same Demographic as those that most fiercely resisted Civil rights reform, and no doubt Abolition before that.

Oh, dear, SB, I really thought you were in the know.

Since Abraham Lincoln (erm, he was Republican, you know the prez who passed the Emancipation Proclamation -- the abolition of slavery in that pesky Democrat stronghold of the South where the slave-owners prevailed), Republicans have been there for blacks when it counted. Nevertheless, Democrats invariably take all the credit for the success of the civil rights movement and invariably fail to give any credit to Republicans.
...

Civil rights for blacks found its historical moment after 1945. Bills introduced in Congress regarding employment policy brought the issue of civil rights to the attention of representatives and senators.
...
As a matter of fact, the record shows that since 1933 Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats.
In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.

[See http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html and http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum...03.04.x.html.]
Republicans and Civil Rights

Originally Posted by SEA Traveler

Being originally from Pennsylvania myself

If you're in the 12th, you better vote for Burns or I'll be coming after ya.

Originally Posted by barbaro

I don't know of any socialists that post in Issues.

Ah, Milkie, sometimes you really do make me laugh.

**barbaro** · 06-05-2010, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by SEA Traveler

Being originally from Pennsylvania myself

If you're in the 12th, you better vote for Burns or I'll be coming after ya.

Originally Posted by barbaro

I don't know of any socialists that post in Issues.

Ah, Milkie, sometimes you really do make me laugh.

Jet,

Then specifically tell us who these "socialists" are.

**Jet Gorgon** · 06-05-2010, 11:54 PM

^ I have to spell it out for you?

Let's start with Buttfly.
More future of America, but this one is good news:

News today that the Washington Post Company has put the money-losing Newsweek up for sale reminded me of how during the last presidential campaign the “news” weekly repeatedly showcased their favorite candidate, Barack Obama, on the cover.

Might such obvious blatant liberal advocacy, which anyone could see in the grocery store checkout line, help explain its decline in fortunes – in credibility followed by finances?

By July of 2008, the Weekly Standard had dubbed the magazine “ObamaWeek” in creating this graphic of six covers which had already featured Obama's image.

Flashback: Newsweek as Obamaweek; Might It Help Explain Their Downfall?

**Jet Gorgon** · 07-05-2010, 12:01 AM

Oh, check this out. Not allowed to showed US patriotism on the Mexican national Day in CA.

A group of California high school students were sent home for wearing American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. An administrator at Live Oak High School told one of the students that the American flag t-shirt was “incendiary.”

According to published reports, the five boys were sitting at a table when they were ordered to remove American flag bandannas and turn their flag t-shirts inside-out. When they refused, they were taken to the principal’s office.

“They told us basically we take it off or we can get suspended,” Matthew Dariano told KCBA, the FOX affiliate in Monterey.

“They said we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it’s supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today,” said Daniel Galli, in an interview with the KTVU in San Francisco.

The students were allegedly told that Cinco de Mayo is “not the day for patriotism.”

“I have no problem with them wearing their Mexico flags,” student Dominic Macio told KCBA. “I just thought I’d show my pride, my American pride.”

Mexican-American students at the high school said they were offended by the American flag displays and demanded action. Some students demanded the boys apologize because it was a Mexican heritage day.

When it comes to an apology, the boys and their families said, “Fat chance.”

“I just couldn’t believe it,” Julie Fagerstrom told the Morgan Hill Times. Her son is one of the students in trouble. “I’m an open-minded parent, but it’s got to be on both sides. It can’t be five kids singled out.”

Other students were allowed to display the Mexican flag as well as dress in the colors of the Mexican flag. The school even sponsored a group of professional dancers who performed and play Mexican music.

Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home on Cinco de Mayo | The FOX Nation

**sabang** · 07-05-2010, 12:04 AM

^ thats silly. I would never wear a national flag, but if i want to i can.

**Jet Gorgon** · 07-05-2010, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

^ thats silly. I would never wear a national flag, but if i want to i can.

Hmmm, did you miss my post above about Republicans?

**sabang** · 07-05-2010, 09:18 AM

A while back, I did a post about how the parties have changed over time.
The fact that Lincoln was a Republican is hardly relevant now. A bit more interesting in a modern context are the southern or 'dixie' Democrats, who virulently opposed the Civil rights legislation.

Of course they didn't get their way, and several of them, including Strom Thurmond, switched parties to Republican. Since the legislation was passed, under Lyndon Johnson, the deep south has always voted Republican with one exception- being a certain peanut farmer from Georgia.

**Camel Toe** · 07-05-2010, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by sabang

^ thats silly. I would never wear a national flag, but if i want to i can.

Hmmm, did you miss my post above about Republicans?

I did and I'm an ex-English teacher. I dealt with bad English every day. Is English your second language? Fox news vocabulary won't get you far in this world as long as we pesky thinkers are running amuck. So what was your point, something about Obama not having a birth certificate, or was it health care and something to do with those idiot libbies?

**Jet Gorgon** · 07-05-2010, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Of course they didn't get their way, and several of them, including Strom Thurmond, switched parties to Republican. Since the legislation was passed, under Lyndon Johnson, the deep south has always voted Republican with one exception- being a certain peanut farmer from Georgia.

Erm, I beg to differ, again.

**sabang** · 08-05-2010, 02:41 AM

^ Welcome to differ but, erm, why?

**Jet Gorgon** · 08-05-2010, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by sabang

the deep south has always voted Republican with one exception- being a certain peanut farmer from Georgia.

Erm, I beg to differ, again.

Originally Posted by sabang

^ Welcome to differ but, erm, why?

The Republicans always have won in the Deep South? Pls expand. News to me if you're talking the past 30 yrs or so.

**sabang** · 08-05-2010, 03:54 AM

White South to GOP

In the 1960s, the courting of white Southern Democratic voters was the basis of the "southern strategy" of the Republican Party's Presidential Campaigns. Republican Presidential Candidate Barry Goldwater carried the Deep South in 1964, despite losing in a landslide in the rest of the nation to President Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas. Johnson surmised that his advocacy behind passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would lose the South for the Democratic party and it did. The only Democratic presidential candidate after 1956 to solidly carry the Deep South was President Jimmy Carter in the 1976 election.

.... Thus far the change was at the presidential level. In the 1990s the South changed from a Democratic monolith to a majority Republican sector of the country with GOP gains in state legislatures and local elections. This change began with the elections of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and George H. W. Bush in 1988. It was consolidated in 1994 when Republicans gained a majority in the House of Representatives under the leadership of Newt Gingrich.

Dixiecrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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