Thread: Greece and its problems

Greece is fading from the news, but it's still worth following.

Here is a thread on the Greece and EU situation and Jim Roger's opinion on it.

It's cut a bit.

Another Jim Rogers interview on Bloomberg regarding Greece.

Talks a lot of sense.

The main reason that the Greeks will default is their character. They're an extremely independent-minded and stubborn people with a healthy mistrust for authority. A decade of austerity imposed by an 'external' power (the EU) will be deemed unacceptable and they will vote out any government that accepts it. In essence, they'll collectively say 'screw you, we'll default and if necessary give us our drachma back'. It's not so much that they feel entitled to free government benefits, it's that they won't accept being punished for the corruption of their government, Goldman Sachs and a Greek ruling class that has never paid any taxes. Last year, only six(!) Greeks with incomes over 1 million Euros filed income tax forms. As far as the wealthy Greeks who screwed over their country big-time, they've all moved their money out of Greece so they don't give a shit if Greece defaults or not. In fact, they're convinced it will. Greece should never have been accepted into the EU because of its endemic corruption. The other P.I.G.S. (Portugal, Italy and Spain) shouldn't have been let in the EU on the same general principals. Eventually, the rest of the P.I.G.S will default for many of the same reasons stated above. The poor Euro. Getting laid in Thailand for all of you EU guys will be getting even more expensive in the next few years.

A downgrade for Greece by Moody's.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Moody's downgraded Greece's government bonds Thursday casting further doubt that the debt-laden country will be able to meet its May 19 deadline for refinancing 8.5 billion euros, or about $11.4 billion, in borrowings.


The credit rating agency cut its bond rating for Greece one notch, to an A3 level, citing "significant risk." A3 is still considered investment grade, although it's not an entirely high-quality credit level. Moody's cautioned that further downgrades are possible as it continues to review Greece's economic outlook.

Link & Entire: Moody's cuts Greek credit rating - Apr. 22, 2010

Originally Posted by barbaro

Greece is fading from the news

More like it just won't stay out of the news.

Look, the country is fucked on a spindle, they are within days of default, they have an ace up their sleeve though.

If Greece goes bust and defaults, initially the Euro will dive. (note: that this is good for the all important German exports).

However, the Euro will bounce hard when the world sees that the Eurozone and it's currency are to be taken seriously, due to them not baling out Greece.

The Euro will gain strongly against the U$D and that will fuck the recovery / strength of German exports....which is the last thing they want / need right now.

^ All this is the reason why Greece have been quite arrogant about the whole matter(even fearlessly mentioning the war and Nazis etc), they know that the above scenario will play out if the don't get their bailout, in a way they have Germany over a barrell.

Yesterdays downgrade and their ten year hitting 8-9% was just another couple of nails in their coffin.

The next few days are gonna be fun

^ Saw that just now, Templetons Mark Mobius just came out with this:

“If we pour piles of cash into a country where corruption extends to top government officials, we won’t see any reforms,”

“There is no other solution than to stop financing Greece with creditors taking responsibility and suffering damages, so countries should help them, not Greece, limit those damages”

Interesting way of looking at it, bail out those outside who will lose money, rather than the country itself.

I hope Mobius isn't planning any vacations in Greece for a while, his name will be mud there when they read this.

Greece's ratings, reduced. Restructuring still a possibility.

Greece Cut to Junk at S&P as Contagion Spreads (Update2)

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By Emma Ross-Thomas and Andrew Davis




April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Greece’s credit rating was cut three steps to junk by Standard and Poor’s, the first time a euro member has lost its investment grade since the currency’s 1999 debut. The euro weakened and stock markets throughout the region plunged.
Greece was lowered to BB+ from BBB+ by S&P, which also warned that bondholders could recover as little as 30 percent of their initial investment if the country restructures its debt. The move, which puts Greek debt on a par with bonds issued by Azerbaijan and Egypt, came minutes after the rating company reduced Portugal by two steps to A- from A+.

Link & Entire: Greece Cut to Junk at S&P as Contagion Spreads (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Their position is best described as them being in a funnel. Right now they are at the top of the funnel swirling around quite slowly. As the swirling continues the pace accelerates and the downward movement increases. They've passed the point of no return. There is no way out of this "debt vortex", other than every citizen of that country to each eat a massive shit sandwich labelled "Government austerity" every day for the next 15 years.

Be honest now, when was the last time anybody you knew went to Greece for a holiday?

When was the last time you bought something made in Greece?

their bonds are paying a nice 15% yield

Originally Posted by Butterfly

their bonds are paying a nice 15% yield

You buying then, ? wouln,t touch with a bargepole

sure, IMF and EU will be there to stop them from defaulting

Originally Posted by barbaro

And this does include raising retirement age and possibly reducing pensions, correct?

Almost certainly.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

sure, IMF and EU will be there to stop them from defaulting

Do the IMF and EU have enough money to stop Italy and Portugal defaulting also?

At what point does the US taxpayer become involved via egregious lending to the IMF/EU by the Fed?

Everybody has spent too much money and the fix is?

Lend them more money.

A 7 year old maths student might be able to tell you this is going to end badly

^Don't worry, i never let it stop me.

Celente on the recent Greece riots, the US & other nations, and the "crash of 2010."

Supposed to happen by the end of 2010 - but Mr. Celente (and I do respect you) you predicted the Greatest Depression to begin in December of 09?

I don't think it happened.

Worth a watch: