The truth will set you free...

**Muadib** · 23-12-2009, 09:27 AM

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence... Something you take in stride and accept as part of the culture... That is until you are lied to by someone close to you...

I have a very close friend that I caught out in a significant, bold-faced and very personal lie... Something that would cause immediate termination of the friendship in the west... Before thinking of the repercussions, I called this person out on the lie, only for them to deflect, blame-shift and tell more lies to cover their tracks... After the fact I realized that calling them out caused them to lose face... The long and short of the situation is that I have had to banish this person from my life, which is causing me some pain... I have to stick to my principles in this matter even though it hurts as I can no longer ever trust this person...

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais???

**babuhavas** · 23-12-2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Muadib

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence... Something you take in stride and accept as part of the culture... That is until you are lied to by someone close to you...

I have a very close friend that I caught out in a significant, bold-faced and very personal lie... Something that would cause immediate termination of the friendship in the west... Before thinking of the repercussions, I called this person out on the lie, only for them to deflect, blame-shift and tell more lies to cover their tracks... After the fact I realized that calling them out caused them to lose face... The long and short of the situation is that I have had to banish this person from my life, which is causing me some pain... I have to stick to my principles in this matter even though it hurts as I can no longer ever trust this person...

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais???

Well Thais don't think even 1 day future,they just have no idea about cause and effect principals.They just lie for everything,
and even if their lie is caught they will never accept this,thais are polite but very arrogant also.
and always blame someone for any problem what so ever.
so my advice to you is get use to it,i can understand that its hurting you,but this is how its goes you can't change peoples behaviour.

**Cujo** · 23-12-2009, 09:52 AM

What was the lie?

**raycarey** · 23-12-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Muadib

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence

what type of people are you consorting with?

Originally Posted by Muadib

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais?

the same place i would with those of any nationality.

Originally Posted by Dug

What was the lie?

yes, it's all a bit mysterious, isn't it?

and btw....how is this an 'issue' (in the TD subforum sense of the word)?

**mao say dung** · 23-12-2009, 10:05 AM

^^Yeah. And how about a little detail on the "deflect, blame-shift and tell more lies to cover their tracks" portion of the episode?

I've yet to see one of these "Thais are all f*cking liars" threads not reveal a number of farangs as equivocating wankjobs themselves.

Which is good for a laugh if the less subtle forms of irony tickle your funny bone.

**blackgang** · 23-12-2009, 10:05 AM

Sounds like this might be a romantic entanglement.
But none the less, I will not be lied to even a little bit and trust that person again, man, woman or child.
But I can expect to be lied to by a Thai, but not by my Thai wife, that was an understanding we had first, almost before the first name was known, there will be no lying or bullshitting, when asked a question you can tell the truth or say none of your business, but no lies.
So as far as I know, my wife has always told me the truth.
I have met a lot of farang here that have let the truth slip,Usually tho that is about past experience or job related stuff, "OH I did that shit all my life" did this or that for fucking ever" and come to find out they didn't even know what the fuck went on in that trade, and then the subject change and thats all that they had ever done,,same shit.
No big deal there as that means nothing but they are a liar and so I will not believe anything they say as if they lie about one thing then they will lie about anything.
In matters of the heart then it is something else again, so what they lie about it to you and it hurts or can cause trouble then I guess it is up to you what you do about it, I know that would be a soft area for me to tread as there are so many variables.

**barbaro** · 23-12-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Muadib

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence... Something you take in stride and accept as part of the culture... That is until you are lied to by someone close to you...

I have a very close friend that I caught out in a significant, bold-faced and very personal lie... Something that would cause immediate termination of the friendship in the west... Before thinking of the repercussions, I called this person out on the lie, only for them to deflect, blame-shift and tell more lies to cover their tracks... After the fact I realized that calling them out caused them to lose face... The long and short of the situation is that I have had to banish this person from my life, which is causing me some pain... I have to stick to my principles in this matter even though it hurts as I can no longer ever trust this person...

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais???

Yes, lying is more commong and 'acceptable' and it seems particularly so with girlfriends.

As you know, Thais perceive the concept of lying different thanwe do in the West.

I don't want to pry, but since you started this thread, I'd like to know what your ex-friend lied about.

More details are necessary.

**Cujo** · 23-12-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Muadib

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence

what type of people are you consorting with?

I get the impression it's pretty common for Thais.
I know Chinese (all 'types') will lie about all sorts of things, even, and often, in situations where it's not necessary and even if they know that the lie will inevitably be caught out.
They just seem to say whatever is most convenient and causes them the least trouble at that very moment without regard to what will inevitably happen in the future and the loss of face they will suffer explanation they will have to make.
of course generally another Chinese wouldn't call them on the lie,
a foreigner will.
Perfect example yesterday in the factory.
"Phillip, did you go down to the production line and check on the order like I asked?"
"Yes, there's no way it can be ready by Friday"
"WHAT, the production manager told my secretary when she called the production department the order will be ready to ship by Thursday!"
"come with me Phillip"
(go with Phillip to my office, talk to secretary)
"Did you call prod and ask about the order?"
"yes"
"and what did they say"
"they said Thursday"
Phillip here tells me he went down there just now and they aren't ready and won't be this week"
"hang on, I'll call them"
(sec calls prod mgr)
"they say the order is on the way to packing dept now"
"Phillip, did you go down and check?"
(sheepish grin) "it must have been another order"
Fucking hell.
What Phillip doesn't realize is that 1: I now know he's a liar and 2: I now do not trust Phillip., 3: word of this little escapade is going around.
Honestly, cannot bloody help themselves.
the lie is the reflex/default action.
That's Chinese (all types), (and it's well agreed and understood among foreigners who've spent any time at all here)
I don't know about Thais.

**Mr Earl** · 23-12-2009, 10:27 AM

I wont tolerate any lying either. The exception being when a lady tells me "you a sexy hansum man".

There are plenty of honest Thai folks out there.
You just have to be patient to get to know them as they're often quite wary of foreigners.
As a far as women go here you really can't expect too much. Most come from fairly poor rural upbringings. So often their fidelity is to the family and to securing the resources for the support of said family.
Best advice is to move very slowly, and be prepared to buy a "buffalo" or two along the way. That's part of paying your dues.

**chassamui** · 23-12-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

I wont tolerate any lying either. The exception being when a lady tells me "you a sexy hansum man".

There are plenty of honest Thai folks out there.
You just have to be patient to get to know them as they're often quite wary of foreigners.
As a far as women go here you really can't expect too much. Most come from fairly poor rural upbringings. So often their fidelity is to the family and to securing the resources for the support of said family.
Best advice is to move very slowly, and be prepared to buy a "buffalo" or two along the way. That's part of paying your dues.

Thai honesty is a bit different to western honesty. The culture seems to allow for openly trying to con someone without any shred of malice or dishonesty being incurred. because that's just the way things are from the thai perspective.

**babuhavas** · 23-12-2009, 11:33 AM

The Biggest Lie Of Thailand Is

"prostitution Is Not Legal In Thailand"

**the dogcatcher** · 23-12-2009, 12:19 PM

A family member used the language barrier to dupe me into doing the family a favour. I would have done it anyway without the need for any deception on his part.
I went ballistic when I found out and threatened to terminate my relationship with Laosy. She was not in on the deal. She went round her brothers and kicked off big, really big, shouting, throwing stuff, slamming doors. etc
There have been no more lies.

**keda** · 23-12-2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Muadib

As most of us know, being lied to in Thailand is an everyday occurrence... Something you take in stride and accept as part of the culture... That is until you are lied to by someone close to you...

I have a very close friend that I caught out in a significant, bold-faced and very personal lie... Something that would cause immediate termination of the friendship in the west... Before thinking of the repercussions, I called this person out on the lie, only for them to deflect, blame-shift and tell more lies to cover their tracks...

Sounds like someone on this 'ere board.

After the fact I realized that calling them out caused them to lose face...

Yes, that too.

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais???

Sorry to hear about your frustration. Fact is it happens, and for reasons that have been discussed often, more here than back home.

Where to draw the line is a conundrum, and will be influenced by the myriad variables. I have wiped people from my life on a fib, yet have remained good friends (some to this day) with out and out rogues. Probably you too.

You're the best judge but better not to burn any bridges in anger. Take yer time, chill out, and use the 10-10-10 technique. How do you view the effects on your life, with each of your choices, 10 minutes, 10 weeks, and 10 years into the future?

It won't always give you the answer, but it'll steer you in the right direction.

Good luck and Happy Christmas (if that's still allowed).

**StrontiumDog** · 23-12-2009, 10:10 PM

Reminds me of the old classic...

How do you know a bargirl is lying?

Her lips are moving...

As an aside, the person who most let me down and lied to me was a farang mate, to such a degree that if I ever see him again, I wont be responsible for my actions.

**Chairman Mao** · 23-12-2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Reminds me of the old classic...

How do you know a bargirl is lying?

Her lips are moving...

Don't be an idiot. That 'joke' is:

How do you know a Thai girl is lying?

Her lips are moving.

Lying means nothing in this culture when compared to other factors, it does in yours. Fok off home or accept it.

Or maybe spend your life whining about it, maybe even on internet forums or in bars. That would be intelligent huh.

(Poor white fok's burden.)

**Stinky** · 23-12-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Muadib

Where do you folks draw the line when in personal relationships with Thais???

As soon as one lies to me for their (or their fvckers in-laws) financial gain that's it as far as I'm concerned, relationship over. I've tried taking the high road in the past and tring to get past it, but that's seen by Thais as a sign that you are an easy mark and they wont hesitate to to do it again.

**Chairman Mao** · 23-12-2009, 10:47 PM

evil... pure thai evil.

How dare Western culture be so different, and the people raised in it so dumb.

**Stinky** · 23-12-2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

evil... pure thai evil.

How dare Western culture be so different, and the people raised in it so dumb.

Telling lies is a way of life in Thailand

Dose that make it right dose it?

**Chairman Mao** · 24-12-2009, 12:00 AM

dose it?

apparently not to those raised in *shock*... different cultures *tremble*.

The sheer thought of others thinking differently and holding different values is obviously just too much for some.

Think of dumbass western freaks being 100% honest just for the sake of it and causing loss of face as a result... The inhumane freaks. Hardly 'right' now, is it?

Honesty matters in the superior west.
Face and all other sorts of nonsense comes first with the monkeys.

When will they learn Sdigit?

**kingwilly** · 24-12-2009, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by raycarey

and btw....how is this an 'issue' (in the TD subforum sense of the word)?

unreal innit ?

**Boon Mee** · 24-12-2009, 03:35 AM

Asia in general to the average farang...truth is a slippery substance. As mao mentions above, one has to deal with "it" if one lives in Thailand. Of course there are all kinds of lies, aren't there? Little white lies, what can be called 'innocent' lies to spare the listener some discomfort. This all needs to be taken in context of the given situation...

**Butterfly** · 24-12-2009, 01:21 PM

I came across the same situation as the OP very recently, someone who enjoys lying on a constant basis just to make himself look good, no matter how small the lies were. It was a farang actually, not a Thai.

I have ignored the situation for months because I slowly lost respect for that person and the lies were small enough to be irrelevant. Eventually though the lies became relevant and were difficult to ignore. Confrontation is always an issue as frauds and liars don't take very well being exposed. They can also be very nice persons, despite the lies, so upsetting them is not always something you are looking forward to. I believe some of them actually believe in their own BS, so any exposure, understandably, is not taken very well or with rage.

Somehow, I usually forgive them, but I am very tolerant

**Norton** · 24-12-2009, 03:35 PM

I'll be damned. Bernie Madoff is a Thai.

**raycarey** · 24-12-2009, 03:38 PM

bernie madoff (great name, btw) is muadibs 'ex-friend'?

but in all seriousness, when are we going to learn more about this?

what happened to the OP after he caught out his now ex-friend "in a significant, bold-faced and very personal lie" and then "banished this person from his life"?

**Muadib** · 24-12-2009, 03:51 PM

I have zero tolerance for anyone who lies to me who I consider a friend or professional associate... Banishment from my life is the only option... This is in part due to having trust issues which stem from being fucked by anyone who I've let get close to me in the past... This includes my own family...

Details of the lie are irrelevant and would only pose as cannon fodder for the intellectually challenged around here who take pleasure in fucking with people... I will say that it is related to a romantic relationship with a Thai lady that I have known for some time... No, she is not a bar girl, so you can refrain from those allusions...

I was more interested in how other TD members handle lies from someone who is more than a casual acquaintance... For those who have not been lied to on a regular basis in Thailand, whether by a taxi driver, shop attendant, etc, then you have never been to Thailand...

We all come into this world naked and leave the same way... To me, the only thing that matters between those two events is your personal integrity...

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