Thread: Oath Keepers

Has anyone heard of this group?

Just another movement, as there are many.

Group asks police and military to lay down arms in response to orders deemed unlawful

Depending on your perspective, the Oath Keepers are either strident defenders of liberty or dangerous peddlers of paranoia.

In the age of town halls, talk radio and tea parties, middle ground of opinion is hard to find.

Launched in March by Las Vegan Stewart Rhodes, Oath Keepers bills itself as a nonpartisan group of current and retired law enforcement and military personnel who vow to fulfill their oaths to the Constitution.

More specifically, the group's members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities. By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming "giant concentration camps," a scenario the 44-year-old Rhodes says he can envision happening in the coming years.

It's a Cold War-era nightmare vision with a major twist: The occupying forces in this imagined future are American, not Soviet.

"The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here," Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer, said in an interview with the Review-Journal. "My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can't do it without them.

"We say if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you."

That type of rhetoric has caught the attention of groups that track extremist activity in the United States.

In a July report titled "Return of the Militias," the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center singled out Oath Keepers as "a particularly worrisome example of the Patriot revival."

The Patriot movement, so named because its adherents believe the federal government has stepped on the constitutional ideals of the American Revolution, gained traction in the 1990s and has been closely linked to anti-government militia and white supremacist movements.

The movement is blamed for spawning Timothy McVeigh, who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people.

"I'm not accusing Stewart Rhodes or any member of his group of being Timothy McVeigh or a future Timothy McVeigh," law center spokesman Mark Potok said. "But these kinds of conspiracy theories are what drive a small number of people to criminal violence. ... What's troubling about Oath Keepers is the idea that men and women armed and ordered to protect the public in this country are clearly being drawn into a world of false conspiracy theory."

Oath Keepers got some unwanted attention in April when an Oklahoma man loosely connected to the group was arrested for threatening violence at an anti-tax protest in Oklahoma City. Rhodes called the man "a nut" who had no real affiliation with his group.

Nonetheless, Potok's group now monitors Oath Keepers on its Web site blog "Hatewatch."

Oath Keepers is not preaching violence or government overthrow, Rhodes said. On the contrary, it is asking police and the military to lay down their arms in response to unlawful orders.

The group's Web site, Oath Keepers » Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic, features videos and testimonials in which supporters compare President Barack Obama's America to Adolf Hitler's Germany. They also liken Obama to England's King George III during the American Revolution.

One member, in a videotaped speech at an event in Washington, D.C., calls Obama "the domestic enemy the Constitution is talking about."

According to the law center, militia groups are re-emerging in this country partly as a result of racial animosity toward Obama.

It's the "cross-pollinating" of extremist groups -- some racist, some not -- that is of concern, Potok said. As evidence that the danger is real, he points to several recent murders committed by men with anti-government or racist views.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security reached a similar conclusion in a report earlier this year about the rise of right-wing extremism. The report said the nation's economic downturn and Obama's race are "unique drivers for right-wing radicalization and recruitment."

The homeland security report added that "disgruntled military veterans" might be vulnerable to recruitment by right-wing extremist groups.

That warning was enough to make Rhodes feel paranoid.

"They're accusing anybody who opposes Obama of being a racist or a potential terrorist," he said. "What they're saying is, 'We're coming after you.'"

The motto of Oath Keepers: "Not on our watch!"

The message Rhodes hears from the government: We're watching you.

Las Vegas police Lt. Kevin McMahill said his department's homeland security bureau isn't overly concerned with Oath Keepers at this point, even though Rhodes says several active-duty Las Vegas officers are members of the group.

"I wouldn't classify Oath Keepers as no threat at all, but I wouldn't classify them as a threat either," McMahill said. "There's always a chance an individual can step outside the boundaries of what an organization stands for and do something wrong."

Rhodes, a former firearms instructor, said he easily could have started Oath Keepers during the Bush administration, but his focus during those years was first on getting his law degree and then volunteering on the 2008 presidential campaign of Texas Congressman Ron Paul, a libertarian Republican in whose office Rhodes worked during the 1990s.

What Rhodes terms "the rise of executive privilege" during the post-9/11 years of the Bush presidency will in his opinion only accelerate with Obama in office. What's worse, he said, is that "gun-hating extremists" now control the White House.

Two things have happened since the Homeland Security Department and Southern Poverty Law Center released their reports on extremism: Membership of Oath Keepers has spiked dramatically. And Rhodes has had to do a lot of explaining.

"We're not a militia," he said. "And we're not part and parcel of the white supremacist movement. I loathe white supremacists."

Oath Keepers doesn't offer paramilitary training; nor does it have a military command structure. It instead has board members, which include directors in seven states and outreach coordinators to currently serving local and federal law enforcement and military personnel. The group's state director in Montana, who goes by the name Elias Alias, has said Montana and other states should consider seceding from the United States in protest of the federal government's conduct.

Leaders of the group will come together in Las Vegas starting Oct. 24 for the inaugural national conference of Oath Keepers.

Among the group's other leaders is Dave Freeman, an Army veteran and former Las Vegas police sergeant who spent more than 30 years with the Metropolitan Police Department.

For Freeman, Oath Keepers has become something of a family affair. He recruited his niece, a former police chief, to serve as state director for Oath Keepers in Massachusetts.

"When you believe in something, you have to do more than just pay it lip service," said Freeman, the group's Southern Nevada director and national peace officer liaison. "This is a crusade I believe in."

Another prominent Oath Keeper is former Arizona sheriff Richard Mack, who has long been an outspoken government critic.

The Southern Poverty Law Center calls Mack a "longtime militia hero" who helped weaken gun control laws.

An incident earlier this year in rural Iowa, not inside the Washington Beltway, motivated Rhodes to start Oath Keepers.

He questioned why the Iowa National Guard planned to use residents of a small town to participate in training on door-to-door searches for weapons.

The Guard said the training was to help soldiers who might be asked to carry out similar searches in Iraq or Afghanistan.

But for Rhodes, it looked like preparation for a future declaration of martial law. It reminded him of the response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005 when police officers reportedly confiscated legally owned firearms. What the government called emergency response after the levees broke, Rhodes saw as the imposition of martial law.

If it hadn't been for April 19 of this year, Oath Keepers might not have gained the notoriety it now has.

On the anniversary of the Battle of Lexington Green, the Massachusetts battle that started the American Revolution in 1775, a group of Oath Keepers went to the battle site and reaffirmed their pledge to the Constitution.

The gathering was mentioned in the Southern Poverty Law Center report because April 19 is also the anniversary of the deadly end to the federal siege on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993; and of the retaliatory bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.

Rhodes and Potok have never talked, but if they did, they might find themselves speaking a different language.

"Let them say what they want to say, but April 19 has very much become a day for the extreme radical right," Potok said.

Rhodes couldn't disagree more.

"There are thousands of Americans who go to Lexington to watch re-enactments of people shooting at troops," Rhodes said. "But if you're a group of military and police there, they somehow find this offensive."

Rhodes said he hopes Oath Keepers members think about the lawfulness of day-to-day orders they receive.

For example, if a police officer feels he is being asked to do an illegal search of a home or vehicle, he should stand down.

Rhodes eventually wants to create a legal defense fund for Oath Keepers who are disciplined by their employers for defying orders they deem unlawful or immoral.

"The message to law enforcement is not to become a tool of oppression," he said.

Rhodes, a husband and father of five home-schooled children, said he gets hundreds of e-mails a day, mostly from people interested in knowing more about his group.

He also gets a lot of questions from "birthers" wanting to know if he thinks Obama is really an American citizen and from "truthers" asking whether he believes the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job. The group doesn't have an official position on either issue, he said.

Some of his responses to questions have turned would-be allies against him.

"I've been accused of being a traitor or a CIA operative because I'm not coming out and declaring that the H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine is a biological weapon," he said.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/oath-keeper...-64690232.html

I presume this is just the fringe of the fringe, right? It's a fairly small number of Americans who are that mental, surely.

Here is a story about the Oathkeepers. The movie "fall of the republic" is mentioned.

Fact: no detention centers are being built in the US.

No plans/laws/regulations are being made that can be found that will take away people's guns.

There's always been nutters like this in the USA, the worry has always been that they might get organised. In the past these resided in their fortress like basements...I guess things have changed.

Here, it seems Bill O'reilly is backing the government. Why would O'reilly question the motives of the Oath Keepers, and even defend the authorities from going into a lady's house during Katrina and taking her guns away?

Did their momma's ignore them when they were kids?

All show and no go, as usual... get on with it.

Interesting video on the Oathkeepers:

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Part 2

I suppose basic lunatics like these people, Birthers, survivalists, Religious nuts and unfortunately much of the extreme Right in the US these days attract a certain morbid fascination. And that sells papers. But they are dinosaurs, a dying gasp of a noisy, declining demographic. The reason they are became inordinately noisy again is because the Republican party, in it's ill advised swing to the Right, has been discredited- electorally, economically and diplomatically. Simply put they were wrong and exposed as such. Also, because Obama is not just (half) black, but intelligent, lucid, well rounded and accomplished. Everything that they are not.

I am coming to resent the fact that so much press coverage is being devoted to these nitwits. Ultimately, they are irrelevant. There is a conservative viewpoint worth expressing, but I rarely see it- beyond the Libertarianism of the recently 'en vogue' Ron Paul, who is well known to be despised by the GOP establishment anyway.

Conservatism in the USA is in a real mess, and it is the bombasts like that dweeb Glenn Beck that are getting all the media space. That is not helpful.

^ Sabang, when will you wake up to the fact that obama is h*ll-bent on destroying America? Who wants to be like Greece or the EU continent or England? Socialism does not create private sector jobs or profits and governments do not generate money -- they spend it.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

obama is h*ll-bent on destroying America?

If you seriously believe that Jet, you are nothing but a Right wing loon yourself!

There are several credible anti- Obama positions to take. I myself do not agree with some of his policies. But we are seeing a US economic recovery in progress, GM & Citi paying back loans, employment (finally) starting to pick up and so on. His economic policies are Capitalist- basically just another variant of Keynesian or Fiscal policy, in response to the most severe financial crisis since the Great Depression. Bailing out the banking system may have been distasteful, but the banking system is crucial in a capitalist economy. Neither has he nationalised companies, what nonsense. Even companies the US government has equity in retain their seperate stewardship, and Boards comprised of private businessmen. The stake in Citi will soon be sold, and at a decent profit.

That is not Socialism, or anything like it. And a national Health care system, oh my gawd how radical . I mean the only advanced economy in the world not to have one- yet paying over double what other advanced economies pay for universal healthcare. Literally sending the US broke- it needs to be fixed. So now the USA joins such bastions of Socialism as Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and Australia, in having a HC system.

Right wing loons can, and will, rave on as they like. But how on earth the GOP thinks it's current course presents a credible alternative to the electorate just beats me.

Go out and get a copy of the movie "Red Dawn" to get a feel for what's ahead...

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

obama is h*ll-bent on destroying America?

If you seriously believe that Jet, you are nothing but a Right wing loon yourself!

I do. Please tell me why it will cost $1 tril plus to insure another 20mil or is it 30 or 35 mil people? Did they fix tort reform? No. Allow cross-state insurance buys? No. Ensure there will be enough docs and med personnel? No. Create new SEIU jobs thru the new bureaucracies? Yes. Start taxing caddy med insurance for everyone but unions? Yes. Keep lots of earmarks in the Bill, like the $100 mil for Dodd's Conneticut hospital? Yes.

As for the TARP repayments:
The U.S. Treasury Department on Friday said total bailout repayments have reached $181 billion with the receipt of $3.4 billion from insurer Hartford Financial Services Group and another $1 billion installment payment from General Motors Co. The Treasury said in a statement repayments to the Troubled Asset Relief Program are running well ahead of 2010 repayment projections made last fall.
It currently estimates that $245 billion in bank investments, including larger bailouts of Citigroup and Bank of America, "will earn a profit thanks to dividends, interest, early repayments and the sale of warrants".
I particularly like the fact that the US govt is dealing in high-risk warrants -- you know, those horrific derivatives.

These investments were initially projected to produce a $76 billion loss for taxpayers. However, for TARP as a whole, including investments in automakers, insurer American International Group and housing rescue efforts, the Treasury is still projecting a loss.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last month told U.S. lawmakers that the TARP loss estimates had fallen from around $500 billion when the Obama administration took office last year to less than $100 billion.
U.S. taxpayers have received a total of $14 billion through interest and dividends, the Treasury said, adding that total could be "considerably higher" by the end of 2010.
U.S. Treasury says bailout repayments reach $181 bln | Business News | Reuters

So, another repayment and $14 bil in profit. Where is that money going? Hmmmm?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Did they fix tort reform? No. Allow cross-state insurance buys? No. Ensure there will be enough docs and med personnel? No.

This is legit criticism, Not that HC reform is some sort of Socialist plot to destroy America. Your strongest allies in this regard are, ironically, progressives on the other side of the political spectrum. Anyway, this thread is about a small bunch or RW loons, not HC reform so I'll leave it at that,

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Go out and get a copy of the movie "Red Dawn" to get a feel for what's ahead...

Nice Schtick, Boon Me.

I saw that movie when it came out in 1984 (?).

I didn't think anything of it then, as I was young. As I got older I realized what propaganda it was. Yes, Hollywood is about fantasy, but during those times, there was an intent to manipulate, IMO.

For those that didn't see it, Red Dawn is about the Soviet Union invading the US.

Khrushchev privately and publicly stated that the USS would never attack or invade the USA for at least for the following 3 reasons:

1. the USA had nuclear weapons
2. the USA had never been invaded before (save the British in 1812)
3. the USA had large amounts of mineral and natural resources

As for Obama being a "socialist," I believe he has some tenets of being a "Fabian Socialist" and I've stated this before.

But GWB was a socialist also, signing the Medicare-D prescription bill, and supporting Federal law to usurp state law.

Obama is more similar than different to his predecessor.

Still Reds under the Bed then.