Thread: Afghanistan 2009 & 2010

Afghanist appears to be a stalemate type situation. The US and coalition are supporting Karzai and his government, but this government doesn't seem legitimate.

Afghan conflict serious, 'deteriorating'-Mullen

Sun Aug 23, 2009







* Top U.S. military man says Afghan war "deteriorating"

* No decision yet to seek more troops - Admiral Mullen (Adds additional interviews, background, McCain comment)

By Phil Stewart

WASHINGTON, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The situation in Afghanistan is deteriorating along with U.S. public support for the war, Washington's top military officer said on Sunday as he left open the possibility of another increase in troops.

"I think it is serious and it is deteriorating, and I've said that over the past couple of years -- that the Taliban insurgency has gotten better, more sophisticated," said Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff.

U.S. combat deaths have risen since U.S. President Barack Obama ordered a troop buildup to confront a resurgent Taliban, with a record 44 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan in July.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll showed a majority of Americans believe the war in Afghanistan is not worth fighting, and just a quarter say more troops should be sent there.

"Certainly the numbers are of concern," Mullen said on NBC's "Meet the Press." But he later added, "this is the war we're in."

Mullen said the new commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, was "wrapping up" his assessment of the situation and would submit it in a couple of weeks.

Mullen said he would evaluate whether more troops were needed after reviewing McChrystal's report.

"We'll see where that goes once the assessment is in here," he said. "And I've had this conversation with the president, who understands that whatever the mission is, it needs to be resourced correctly."

McChrystal's report, originally due in mid-August, was expected after the Afghan election process is completed. Counting is under way following Thursday's election, which drew allegations of vote rigging Sunday from Afghan President Hamid Karzai's main challenger. [ID:nSP74288]

NO "ENDLESS DRIFT"

A credible election result is important for the country and for U.S. President Barack Obama, who has made stabilizing Afghanistan a top foreign policy priority.

Obama already plans to increase the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan to about 68,000 by year's end, more than double the 32,000 the United States had there at the end of 2008.

Mullen declined to comment on U.S. media reports that McChyrstal might recommend additional increases of 15,000, 25,000 or 45,000 troops.

He said the United States faced a multi-year effort to establish security and enable Afghan forces to maintain it.

"I don't see this as a mission of endless drift. I think we know what to do, we've learned a lot of lessons from Iraq, focusing on the Afghan people," Mullen said.

Asked about an exit strategy, Mullen said: "I've said from a military perspective I believe we've got to start to turn this thing around from a security standpoint in the next 12 to 18 months."

"And I think after that we'd have a better view of how long it's going to take and what we need to do."

Sen. John McCain, the Republican who lost to Obama in last year's presidential election, said on Sunday he did not believe there were enough troops on the ground in Afghanistan.

McCain told ABC's "This Week" that the "clock is ticking" on American public opinion of the Afghan war.

"I think you need to see a reversal of these very alarming and disturbing trends on attacks, casualties and areas of the country that the Taliban has increased control of," he said. (Additional reporting David Lawder; Editing by Doina Chiacu)

Link: Afghan conflict serious, 'deteriorating'-Mullen | Reuters

Prominent right-wing columnist George Will has just called for US land troops to leave Afghanistan in a short and powerful article. In recent years, the most coherent anti-war writings have come from traditional conservatives such as Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan and, now, George Will. Liberals are giving Barack Obama a free ride in this futile and expensive occupation of a backwater that's been called the graveyard of empires. If George Bush was still president, liberals would be screaming for NATO to exit. There's no doubt that the Afghan war is now as pointless as the conflict in Iraq and Obama has the power to end it. The liberals' silence on Afghanistan is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Here's some of what George Will had to say:

"The U.S. strategy is "clear, hold and build." Clear? Taliban forces can evaporate and then return, confident that U.S. forces will forever be too few to hold gains. Hence nation-building would be impossible even if we knew how, and even if Afghanistan were not the second-worst place to try: The Brookings Institution ranks Somalia as the only nation with a weaker state."

George Will: Time To Get Out Of Afghanistan

Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

The liberals' silence on Afghanistan is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Hate to say it but there's some truth to that.

There's a lot of discomfort on the Left over Afghanistan, but not a lot of noise. I think it's partly because, compared to Iraq, Afganistan was "The Good War" because of the connection to Al Quada and the Taliban; there was a reason to go in and something to do beside bust the place up when we got there. Then Bush let all that slide and Iraq and other issues absorbed the public consciousnes. Now that it's front and center again, one "of ours" is in charge and the urge to criticise is muffled. Maybe loyalty, maybe benefit of the doubt. But patience with Obama is starting to wear thin, at least with this leftie, especially if he doesn't toughen up on more issues than Afghanistan.

Need to examine the real and principled reasons why America continues to have an interest of occupation and influence in the region.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Need to examine the real and principled reasons why America continues to have an interest of occupation and influence in the region.

OK. Go ahead. Examine and let us know.

USA will not have more success than the russian in Afghanistan ...

Afghanistan is a dilemna to me- maybe George Will is right. I certainly respect his opinion. It is a 'good war' because them Taliban are Baddies, but even Obamas ramping up of the conflict (which I supported) does not seem to have made a critical difference on the ground. As far as I can see, anyway.

What may prove to be the 'final straw' is emerging too- electoral fraud was rampant in the recent elections. NATO is in the 'Vietnam' dilemna- propping up a corrupt, unpopular, innefectual government. It's all very well to say that the Taliban is even worse, but we have to listen to the Afghan people here- many of whom are not particularly fond of the Taliban but at least they maintain order, and are not corrupt. So what is left is their utterly vile form of Islamic society. Hard to leave the people to that, especially the non-Pashtun areas of Ghan.

So what to do? One possible thought might be to divide Afghanistan into 'Talibanistan' and the rest. But would the Taliban put up with that, or would it mean an endless war, another Nam? Withdraw, yet again, with our collective tails between our legs? An embarassing defeat to be sure- but if we are still losing this war, we at least have to be honest with ourselves.

It seems to me a case is emerging that, frankly, they are all as bad as each other- but the vile Taliban is better organised. The security forces in the Karzai government are as dangerous to the population as the Tali. Just leave them to it, and just plain forget about placing any geostrategic imprtance on Afghanistan? Maybe.

In the clearest sign that the Pentagon has become dependent on privatization, a new report reveals that today there are more defense contractors than U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

According to a Congressional Research Service report obtained by the Federation of American Scientists blog Secrecy News, the ratio of contractors to troops is higher "than in any conflict in the history of the United States":

"As of March 2009, there were 68,197 DoD contractors in Afghanistan, compared to 52,300 uniformed personnel. Contractors made up 57% of DoD's workforce in Afghanistan. This apparently represented the highest recorded percentage of contractors used by DoD in any conflict in the history of the United States."

Report: Contractors Outnumber Troops In Afghanistan By Highest Ratio In U.S. History

....another invented enemy. Hook, line, and sinker.

Wonder what it's like to guard State Department facilities in Kabul? In photos first published by Gawker, security contractors get their kicks peeing on one another, simulating anal sex, doing "butt shots," and "eating potato chips out of ass cracks."

These photos were provided to us by the Project on Government Oversight, which has just written a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton detailing its investigation into the "Lord of the Flies environment" that has overtaken the private contractors who guard State Department employees in Kabul, Afghanistan. According to POGO, employees of ArmorGroup North America—a unit of contracting giant Wackenhut—get their jollies off by "deviant hazing [that] has created a climate of fear and coercion, with those who declined to participate often ridiculed, humiliated, demoted, or even fired."

What sort of hazing? The traditional desperately homoerotic frat boy kind, mostly involving eating and drinking things off of other men's butts. Also some nipple-biting, as you can see below. One POGO whistle blower described it thusly [PDF link]: "They have a group of sexual predators, deviants running rampant over there. No, they are not jamming guys in the ass per say [sic], but they are showing poor judgenment [sic]." Most of it appears to have been voluntary, but those who didn't really want to drink vodka shots out of the clenched butt-cheeks of their male co-workers were penalized and reported barricading themselves in their rooms. And sometimes the behavior extended to the locals:

An Afghan national employed as a food service worker at the guard corps' base at Camp Sullivan submitted a signed statement dated August 16, 2009, attesting that a guard force supervisor and four others entered a dining facility on August 1, 2009, wearing only short underwear and brandishing bottles of alcohol. Upon leaving the facility, the guard force supervisor allegedly grabbed the Afghan national by the face and began abusing him with foul language, saying, "You are very good for fXXXing." The Afghan national reported that he "was too afraid of them I could not tell them any thing."

They hate you for your freedoms...to lick other men's nipples.

God, I do wish they'd send some polite people to do these underpaid, glorified security guard jobs in Central Asian shitholes!

Imagine what those strict Muslims must think of this sort of behaviour! Not to mention the fact that if you tried to get a Pashtun to eat Doritos out of another man's ass-crack, he'd behead you.

They say Original Lays are a better bet.

What the U.S. General didn't say, due to politics, is that the situation is due to sad state of NATO country's military. Now the U.S. has to go back in there and fix it, again. The only countries thad did any fighting were the U.S., Brits, Ozzies. Heck, the Germans and Italians rarely left their bases. This what happens when you leave the fighting to Europe.